This why I don't complain illegal serves

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Revision of serve rule is already under study by ITTF. It sounds like this:
-- The ball shall be between server's body other than head and the table's end line when the ball is struck.
_____________
Be happy all

If this amendment gets accepted it might make situation unchanged or even worse. By putting more words on the ball/blade contact timing, it weaken the existing rule about "no blocking from throwing to striking". The hook serve is difficult to receive mostly because the ball is hidden all the process but only let the opponent see it at contact point.


The amendment should enhance the current rules rather than weaken them. Maybe should be:

-- The ball shall be between server's body other than head and the table's end line after the ball leaves the hand
 
says Table tennis clown
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We got a basket case here in this quote (not l0odro's) and lodro could use some white wine to go along with that fish.
White wine is always nice with fish and I have also use for it in my cheese fondue of course. I just finished my chicken red Thai curry and had added a good glug of red Shiraz to it to enrich the bouquet. Local market could not supply the lychees, had to put in pineapple pieces.
Anybody moans about me getting off subject gets a smack.
Life is hard 😂
 
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The current service rules are fine. The ball has to remain in full view of the net for the entire process. It is a simple to enforce rule if you have cameras that track the ball from the 2 net posts and automatically flags the server if it loses sight of the ball.

Unfortunately almost none of the top players are serving legally.

They just need to implement them and start penalizing players who flout the service rules...

Simple, fking Hawkeye would do the trick too.

Anyway, TT is sometimes really a mess due to all the cheats...
Agree - when enforcement comes in other sports be it football VAR (far fewer dives - why should a game be decided by pure cheating?) illegal tackles to the head (ice hockey - remove the faulting player for a number of matches ergo problem becomes way smaller). Enforcement is not perfect but having faults decide games at the decisive points? You loose interest and audience.
 
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Agree - when enforcement comes in other sports be it football VAR (far fewer dives - why should a game be decided by pure cheating?) illegal tackles to the head (ice hockey - remove the faulting player for a number of matches ergo problem becomes way smaller). Enforcement is not perfect but having faults decide games at the decisive points? You loose interest and audience.
I think we will find that there will be LESS faults in the long term if players get the message that they should be serving legally. Of course that requires a short term where refs enforce the rules and players get that message and adjust.

Having a grey area right now where they may or may not get away with it (leaning more towards mostly getting away with it) means that there's more incentive to push the limits. It's a middle ground that ONLY benefits those willing to push those limits (i.e, cheat). And if it gets out of control, players that had no interest in breaking rules may be incentivized to do it anyway in order to stay competitive.

All these pro players are fully capable of serving legally. If they are getting faulted, it's because they were taking a risk to gain advantage. When it's more likely that the disadvantages are greater than the advantages, the faulting will disappear accordingly.
 
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I think we will find that there will be LESS faults in the long term if players get the message that they should be serving legally. Of course that requires a short term where refs enforce the rules and players get that message and adjust.

Having a grey area right now where they may or may not get away with it (leaning more towards mostly getting away with it) means that there's more incentive to push the limits. It's a middle ground that ONLY benefits those willing to push those limits (i.e, cheat). And if it gets out of control, players that had no interest in breaking rules may be incentivized to do it anyway in order to stay competitive.

All these pro players are fully capable of serving legally. If they are getting faulted, it's because they were taking a risk to gain advantage. When it's more likely that the disadvantages are greater than the advantages, the faulting will disappear accordingly.
I think i said it before : If one is not prepared to police them , then don't make any rules.
 
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The only way to increase viewership for TT is to simplify the game it for general audience and add more focus on rallies.
I think anyone watching usually gets a fairly good explanation of things from the commentators. If you can see the power direction and spin in rallys then it's pretty easy to understand why someone will use service to restrict your opponent in that regard.
IMO, serves should be similar to tennis (one to each side) and the first bounce on the receiver's side should be after the middle of the table to improve the flow.
Thats too prescriptive imo. TT is an artful and creative game and to restrict this would be a mistake. Restricting it this way would also make it very 'samey' and even more boring.

The reason Tennis does what it does is because the court is so much bigger that it can't be covered from a service without splitting the court in half at service time.
Average folks don't wanna see how well we can disguise or hide our serves so that we win the point right away or on the 3rd ball attack. They wanna see something that they understand and that's rallies.
Maybe. But average folk don't watch TT on TV. Only fans watch TT on TV, you have to look for it. Average folk get into TT through school or a club that has a table where they learn to appreciate it (or not) through playing. In my experience at least.
 
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Put small webcam below the net align the view to the middle line. Connect it with bluetooth or WIFI to the umpire notepade. It's cheap & solve the problem 😂
+1
use AI tracking.
can't see the ball from either one of the cams
red flag (light)
easy
 
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I think i said it before : If one is not prepared to police them , then don't make any rules.
Absolutely agree on this. If you make rules but then don't instruct your game umpires to enforce them your rules become meaningless and take relevance only in forum discussions like this.
Maybe they expected players to be more sporting (like snooker?) but many people have a win at all costs mentality and the larger game culture obviously has no issue with this.
Enforce the rules properly or go back to the old rules where you could do whatever you liked on service. It's really that simple.
 
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+1
use AI tracking.
can't see the ball from either one of the cams
red flag (light)
easy
The net camera with AI tracking would be perfect.
Penalty for hiding the ball is move to 2nd serve.
Penalty for 2nd offense is point lost.
That sorts it at the pro level.
We'd still have to deal with it at our level but having it done correctly by the pros might lead to less of it at amateur levels too...
 
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The net camera with AI tracking would be perfect.
Penalty for hiding the ball is move to 2nd serve.
Penalty for 2nd offense is point lost.
That sorts it at the pro level.
We'd still have to deal with it at our level but having it done correctly by the pros might lead to less of it at amateur levels too...
yeah, pro level needs to step up with technology and not using 1900 method to umpire.

amateur circuit, well, same as tennis, you won't have all these line judges too.
most times, the players alternate being the umpire, I mean, score speaker
 
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Put small webcam below the net align the view to the middle line. Connect it with bluetooth or WIFI to the umpire notepade. It's cheap & solve the problem 😂
Strictly speaking, it has to be visible from the point of view of the net posts, not just from the middle line. So what is required is 4 cameras. 2 on each net post x 2 = 4 total. Whenever the cameras lose sight of the ball then it is an illegal serve.

But they wont implement it because it will just fault like 99% of pros, and they have to relearn their service movements. There are a lot of complainers around.
 
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They (the players) who usually stand with both shoulders parallel to their baseline (and certainly not next to their table) usually have/give legal services. How difficult can it be to implement this rule.
 
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They (the players) who usually stand with both shoulders parallel to their baseline (and certainly not next to their table) usually have/give legal services. How difficult can it be to implement this rule.
i can easily toss the ball and use my tossing hand to intervene in the view of the player until last moment when the contact will make
for example having my playing arm below that of tossing hand and only pulling back my tossing hand when the acceleration of my playing arm goes out.

We train backhand serves to make it pass on grey line too :)
 
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i can easily toss the ball and use my tossing hand to intervene in the view of the player until last moment when the contact will make
for example having my playing arm below that of tossing hand and only pulling back my tossing hand when the acceleration of my playing arm goes out.

We train backhand serves to make it pass on grey line too :)
That you are not allowed to hide the ball with your hand/arm/body is already in the rules. That you are not allowed to serve when standing next to the table is not included in the rules of the game.
By forbidding this and your shoulders must be parallel to the baseline, you pretty much rule out illegal FH services.
 
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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="
" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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The above video posted by the popular table tennis net personality EmRatThich captures a match in the latest Europe Championship between two female players. The refs for the match probably was a hero in the eyes of our some forum members. The first serve the Romania player did was immediately called fault. Then he faulted her many times until the poor girl (some forum members probably would call her a cheater) in tears. The scene reminded me the similar situation in a past Olympic women's single final between two Chinese players. The 'cheater' in tears then was the grand slam winner Ding Ning who retired a few years ago.

EmRatThich had some comments and view on the illegal serve issue in our sport and similar to mine.

Women and men are differently when dealing with being faulted repeatedly. Some women will be so desperate and heart broken that they are in tears. Men will show anger and frustration but never in tears (some little boys might be exceptions). What some men do in situations like that? They usually fight back. Chen Weixing, a hot temped chopper, once in US Open, was faulted multiple times in a match. He was so angry that he threw his racket on the table and eventually he quit the match, as if his way of saying to the ref: 'You faulted my serves, I faulted my match!' :)
 
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The above video posted by the popular table tennis net personality EmRatThich captures a match in the latest Europe Championship between two female players. The refs for the match probably was a hero in the eyes of our some forum members. The first serve the Romania player did was immediately called fault. Then he faulted her many times until the poor girl (some forum members probably would call her a cheater) in tears. The scene reminded me the similar situation in a past Olympic women's single final between two Chinese players. The 'cheater' in tears then was the grand slam winner Ding Ning who retired a few years ago.

EmRatThich had some comments and view on the illegal serve issue in our sport and similar to mine.

Women and men are differently when dealing with being faulted repeatedly. Some women will be so desperate and heart broken that they are in tears. Men will show anger and frustration but never in tears (some little boys might be exceptions). What some men do in situations like that? They usually fight back. Chen Weixing, a hot temped chopper, once in US Open, was faulted multiple times in a match. He was so angry that he threw his racket on the table and eventually he quit the match, as if his way of saying to the ref: 'You faulted my serves, I faulted my match!' :)
Usually in serious sports, umpires at every level are trained, validated and reviewed. Most of the people who commented on this match on YouTube cannot see the consistency in the refs approach to both players serves. Of course, you are free to find the people who have claimed this umpire as a hero as you purport since you like making unsubstantiated claims on behalf of other people to make yourself feel good.

The Ding Ning issue is different. She rarely ever tossed the ball high enough on her reverse tomahawk, mostly letting it drop from a height and using her descent to mask the lack of toss. The referee/umpire that faulted her for it was one of the most highly regarded and polished refs on the tour at the time and was doing her job during a final. People can complain about that all they want. In fact maybe if this ref that faulted Zaharis is willing to explain himself publicly and why he felt Zaharis was worse than Kaufmann, it will only advance the sport.

PS. Looking at it all again, the issue is that the toss is backwards into the paddle and this is easiest to see from where the umpire sits. In fact horizontal tosses are not as easy to fault as this one. Hopefully Elena will fix her serve but since Bernie often does something similar, the real issue is still making the umpires call these things consistently.
 
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