WTT CHAMPIONS MONTPELLIER

[FIXPOINT]

WTT Champions Montpellier 2024 WS R16 Day1

 

[FIXPOINT]

WTT Champions Montpellier 2024 MS R16 Day1

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[UpSideDownCarl]

@UpSideDownCarl can you merge the 2 threads please ?

Threads are now merged. I just was at work and could not get to it till now.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Threads are now merged. I just was at work and could not get to it till now.

thank you

 

[turbozed]

I did not think that the umpire had this right. it has been quite while now that i read the rules but I thought that there always had to be a warning and can not remember a rule that the warning was at the umpires discretion .

EDIT: Just had a quick read of rule 2.6.6.1 and indeed if there is no doubt in either the umpire;s or assistant's mind , then a warning is not needed..It is however the first time I have experienced it.

Even though it's stated in the rules that a warning doesn't have to be given, I like having an unwritten rule that a let and warning be given before an actual fault.

Gives the players notice of some illegality in their serves and therefore the onus is on them to adjust. Also because the point is a let, there's really no disadvantage for the receiver.

Right now there's a huge uproar among some fans when a fault is given and the ref gets heavy criticism for enforcing rules. At least with the let-warning, there is a good argument the ref really doesn't want to get involved but their hand was forced by multiple infractions. Having something like this also makes refs less gunshy.

I still like the refs getting involved a lot more in this event, and also clearly stating what the infraction was. There will be short term inconsistencies and unfairness, but once ironed out I think there will be a long term net benefit when refs are expected to enforce service rules (as is their job) and quality of enforcement improves.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Threads are now merged. I just was at work and could not get to it till now.

I started this thread (now that it is merge, my thread is gone) and after the merge, I can't see the merged one because I have blocked/ignored the OP user of the other thread (new merged thread).....
I wonder how many people like me is affected due to the merge - because it is encourage to block certain users.

so i think this needs to be taken into consideration on merging threads
So the thread is not shown from the dashboard. only able to click in from notifications

I am not happy with the said merge as it has now inconvenience me to get access

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

So in LYJ game against Groth,
Lin was given yellow at game 2, 9-7, service - for time wasting

Lin didn't complain but Groth went to complain for the unfair card. Groth was on a yellow already, so was risking another yellow (red) if the umpire got pissed off.
luckily, the umpire came to his senses and apologies to Lin and removed the yellow - time wasting.

basically Lin was into his service prep routine, as per normal and Groth was also busy getting into ready position as per normal. There was no time wasting from the moment where both players were settling in.

It was a poor judgement at first by the umpire, but sportsmanship from Groth and then the umpire willing to make amends to his poor judgement and actually apologies into the microphone when he withdraw the given yellow.

More umpires should learn from this umpire, as most of them are just power status and will not acknowledge a bad call even after the opponent player giving voice.

A Lin fan thanks Groth on Thread, and Groth replied saying:
"Thank you for the kind words.
Lin is a very fair player, and he didn't deserve yellow card.

please all come and support Groth!

https://www.threads.net/@jonathangroth92/post/DBheDrMNzpj

 

[lodro]

I think there will be a long term net benefit when refs are expected to enforce service rules (as is their job) and quality of enforcement improves.

Absolutely . It will take a wile to trickle down to the club level but it is about time somebody makes a start.
It is interesting though to experience that even hardened pros like Tomo also did not know that no warning is needed. 😁

 

[Yuomay]

I think this is going to move the ittf to change the service rules.

One might hope that a change would simplify detection of faulty services.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Even though it's stated in the rules that a warning doesn't have to be given, I like having an unwritten rule that a let and warning be given before an actual fault.

Gives the players notice of some illegality in their serves and therefore the onus is on them to adjust. Also because the point is a let, there's really no disadvantage for the receiver.

warning is communication

most umpires are terrible in communication
i doubt all of them are able to speak english or able to communicate with the players (and this is an honest point)

Right now there's a huge uproar among some fans when a fault is given and the ref gets heavy criticism for enforcing rules. At least with the let-warning, there is a good argument the ref really doesn't want to get involved but their hand was forced by multiple infractions. Having something like this also makes refs less gunshy.

the uproar can be solved with consistency.
we have seen that a player is all fine throughout the 4 or 7 day, but on the last day, the exact same motion is now wrong.
players uproar on inconsistency and I think fans too.

the quality control between ITTF and its umpires needs to be Champion level, or if not, they should just go to feeder or club and probably award higher quality ones to match that with higher tier tournaments.
higher tier also means higher profile, meaning higher spotlight and higher talks/repercussion

I still like the refs getting involved a lot more in this event, and also clearly stating what the infraction was. There will be short term inconsistencies and unfairness, but once ironed out I think there will be a long term net benefit when refs are expected to enforce service rules (as is their job) and quality of enforcement improves.

you are right, so as long as there is consistency.
but with naked eye.... its all based on umpires eye sight and judgement on said day and with 10 hours long days, I doubt the eye sight are sniper/pilot trained or quality.
even with snipers and pilots, they have technology to aid with precision

 

[lodro]

I think this is going to move the ittf to change the service rules.

One might hope that a change would simplify detection of faulty services.

once points will get deducted ( added to the opponent) as a matter of routine , the players will be forced to adapt very quickly.

It will take much longer to make its way down into the clubs and personally I do not expect to see it happen here in my clubs. ............maybe next life 😂

 

[NextLevel]

I started this thread (now that it is merge, my thread is gone) and after the merge, I can't see the merged one because I have blocked/ignored the OP user of the other thread (new merged thread).....
I wonder how many people like me is affected due to the merge - because it is encourage to block certain users.

so i think this needs to be taken into consideration on merging threads
So the thread is not shown from the dashboard. only able to click in from notifications

I am not happy with the said merge as it has now inconvenience me to get access

Your thread should never have existed in the first place and this merger should have been done a long time ago, but that is a separate story.

Even though it's stated in the rules that a warning doesn't have to be given, I like having an unwritten rule that a let and warning be given before an actual fault.

Gives the players notice of some illegality in their serves and therefore the onus is on them to adjust. Also because the point is a let, there's really no disadvantage for the receiver.

Right now there's a huge uproar among some fans when a fault is given and the ref gets heavy criticism for enforcing rules. At least with the let-warning, there is a good argument the ref really doesn't want to get involved but their hand was forced by multiple infractions. Having something like this also makes refs less gunshy.

I still like the refs getting involved a lot more in this event, and also clearly stating what the infraction was. There will be short term inconsistencies and unfairness, but once ironed out I think there will be a long term net benefit when refs are expected to enforce service rules (as is their job) and quality of enforcement improves.

I think warnings at the pro level are a complete waste of time and actually give umpires too much of a copout. Fault the player immediately if they are breaking the rules, it is not like they haven't played enough to know that they are breaking the rules with their serves and are just relying on the fact that no one likes to call out illegal serves because of lax enforcement.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Your thread should never have existed in the first place and this merger should have been done a long time ago, but that is a separate story.

why should it never exist?

1) I can't see that thread
2) that thread was dormant
I saw the time stamp, the talk started with me posting things on a new thread and if it wasn't for zeio who insist of using that dormant thread, I guess that thread would still be in the dark

there is a ignore function
you can't see threads posted by ignore users

so, "thread should never have existed" is not fair. I'm sure you will agree
so either there must be a feature for users to know or see, else, you can't make a feature in the platform and then not acknowledge the issues it comes with.

so now it is done, I can only gain access through notification - ie if you didn't tag me, I wouldn't have gotten a notification to reply to you.
so bugs/flaws or what ever you want to call it, this is a problem that is not a user fault

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think warnings at the pro level are a complete waste of time and actually give umpires too much of a copout. Fault the player immediately if they are breaking the rules, it is not like they haven't played enough to know that they are breaking the rules with their serves and are just relying on the fact that no one likes to call out illegal serves because of lax enforcement.

fair
but umpires still need to communicate the offense

table tennis umpires are one of the worse officials when it comes with talking to players.

and umpires need to have the guts to acknowledge errors and apologies - like the example in the video link I shared from Groth's Thread.

 

[latej]

why should it never exist?

1) I can't see that thread
2) that thread was dormant
I saw the time stamp, the talk started with me posting things on a new thread and if it wasn't for zeio who insist of using that dormant thread, I guess that thread would still be in the dark

there is a ignore function
you can't see threads posted by ignore users

so, "thread should never have existed" is not fair. I'm sure you will agree
so either there must be a feature for users to know or see, else, you can't make a feature in the platform and then not acknowledge the issues it comes with.

so now it is done, I can only gain access through notification - ie if you didn't tag me, I wouldn't have gotten a notification to reply to you.
so bugs/flaws or what ever you want to call it, this is a problem that is not a user fault

Or you should unignore

I mean if I ignore someone, I'm really not interested - also, perhaps especially, in the threads... So, this means you are interested, you should unignore. Problem solved...

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Or you should unignore

I mean if I ignore someone, I'm really not interested - also, perhaps especially, in the threads... So, this means you are interested, you should unignore. Problem solved...

then I can see the unignore users posts which I don't want to see

if Shine didn't create the thread, and a user that is not ignored, it wouldn't be a problem
image if that other hunkelin dude goes and created all WTT threads for 2025

NL will say, there is already a thread, we not allowed to create any more and must use his or merge into his
but if we all ignore hunkelin, we can't see all the threads he created and won't see them once it is merged

so problem to solve this is to unignore hunkelin? that sounds like 1980s solution
i mean, if it wasn't that the original thread had much activity, it was very dormant talking about FTTT finally wants to do a WTT. The thread didn't talk about the actual tournament until I started my thread and zeio probably went to dug up that old thread to keep it alive.

 

[latej]

then I can see the unignore users posts which I don't want to see

if Shine didn't create the thread, and a user that is not ignored, it wouldn't be a problem
image if that other hunkelin dude goes and created all WTT threads for 2025

NL will say, there is already a thread, we not allowed to create any more and must use his or merge into his
but if we all ignore hunkelin, we can't see all the threads he created and won't see them once it is merged

so problem to solve this is to unignore hunkelin? that sounds like 1980s solution
i mean, if it wasn't that the original thread had much activity, it was very dormant talking about FTTT finally wants to do a WTT. The thread didn't talk about the actual tournament until I started my thread and zeio probably went to dug up that old thread to keep it alive.

I try not to look at it from the technical standpoint, where the fix would be to show threads which you've posted into, even if they are from an ignored member. I will then start to think how to have the proper DB table structure, and if I can optimize even that 1 extra SQL select away ;-)

From my perspective, ignoring some members is OK if I am not angry at them, I simply ignore the BS. But sometimes I can get angry, ignore someone, and that I think should evaporate with time. After all, when we all meet in TTD's 2025 meeting in Montpellier, you'll also have a hit with shine, won't you ?-)

P.S. We are drifting, I think I should stop ;-)

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I try not to look at it from the technical standpoint, where the fix would be to show threads which you've posted into, even if they are from an ignored member. I will then start to think how to have the proper DB table structure, and if I can optimize even that 1 extra SQL select away ;-)

From my perspective, ignoring some members is OK if I am not angry at them, I simply ignore the BS. But sometimes I can get angry, ignore someone, and that I think should evaporate with time. After all, when we all meet in TTD's 2025 meeting in Montpellier, you'll also have a hit with shine, won't you ?-)

P.S. We are drifting, I think I should stop ;-)

well, you are replying to me, so I can get notification
if you accidentally didn't tag me, and I don't reply, i'm innocent hey!!! lol

ignoring and unignore is very troublesome
But I still stand that my question to Carl does have merit

NL is a long standing mod too, so if he was in Carl's shoe, he can't say I am in the wrong, as this is just how TTD works,

yes, me unignore shine is maybe easy and less headache for the mods.
but if it was hunkelin..... who goes and open all the threads, then we all need to step him and disallow big threads merging with small threads, especially if small threads are hidden

 

[zeio]

Or you should unignore

I mean if I ignore someone, I'm really not interested - also, perhaps especially, in the threads... So, this means you are interested, you should unignore. Problem solved...

And how funny he said this thread was dormant (when in fact pongfugrasshopper bumped it up before he started his own), just because he chose to ignore the OP and hence couldn't see it anymore.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

And how funny he said this thread was dormant (when in fact pongfugrasshopper bumped it up before he started his own), just because he chose to ignore the OP and hence couldn't see it anymore.

so zeio, you here
who from CNT should we retire or resign now?