Feedback on my League games

[Zezima]

There isn't much difference between any of them. My advice is just don't focus on anything from the shoulder onward, focus on everything that comes before. Get your feet, hip, and waist placed and moving the right way, keep your arm relaxed and swing it with your lower body. How these pros practice is just a "standard form", once in real games their form are all even outwardly pretty similar, because there's really only one way to hit the ball. Different racket angles and stuff are used in different situations, and you don't really need to pay too much attention to which situation to use what, your brain will figure it out as it's not important. Look at this video for example, you can see Ovtcharov using the more closed-to-open stroke in his 1st loop at 0-0, then again attempt it at 1-1 on a miss:

I really like this Angle in terms of seeing how much forwards they go with the stroke but really bad at the same time to see how low they go with the rackets. Because to me they go especially ML very low (with the racket) But it feels like during the stroke he gets over the ball not like me with a brush stroke but more like a drive stroke.

Its like I try to spin those Balls with the rubber only. Rubber 100% and Blade 0%. And when I want to go very fast its upwards and because of the "thin" contact the ball flys uncontrolled out. I will try to test and lower the rubber amount a bit so I get more speed on the ball aswell and see if the strokes feel more controlled

 

[NextLevel]

I really like this Angle in terms of seeing how much forwards they go with the stroke but really bad at the same time to see how low they go with the rackets. Because to me they go especially ML very low (with the racket) But it feels like during the stroke he gets over the ball not like me with a brush stroke but more like a drive stroke.

Its like I try to spin those Balls with the rubber only. Rubber 100% and Blade 0%. And when I want to go very fast its upwards and because of the "thin" contact the ball flys uncontrolled out. I will try to test and lower the rubber amount a bit so I get more speed on the ball aswell and see if the strokes feel more controlled

IF you take the ball at low heights (at or below the table), the kind of trajectory you are trying to get to produce spin and speed is different from when you take the ball higher or closer to the table. You can make the ball almost skim and kick hardly upwards looping at those heights. It's a combination of things that comes through a lot of practice, most of us do not have the time or quantity of practice to consistently play that way.

 

[dingyibvs]

I really like this Angle in terms of seeing how much forwards they go with the stroke but really bad at the same time to see how low they go with the rackets. Because to me they go especially ML very low (with the racket) But it feels like during the stroke he gets over the ball not like me with a brush stroke but more like a drive stroke.

Its like I try to spin those Balls with the rubber only. Rubber 100% and Blade 0%. And when I want to go very fast its upwards and because of the "thin" contact the ball flys uncontrolled out. I will try to test and lower the rubber amount a bit so I get more speed on the ball aswell and see if the strokes feel more controlled

I wouldn't pay too much attention to that. Just try to get as thick of a contact as possible, your brain will naturally adjust to the right racket height. Ma Long may drop his racket low but he brings it up to appropriate height before the rapid acceleration part of the swing. That goes for all pros, the technique shortly before impact is all more or less the same. The Chinese players usually drop their racket lower because they tend to relax their elbow more during the backswing, so the racket naturally drops due to gravity, it's not their intention to drop it.

 

[NetProphet]

I think I had bad experience with going forwards. Because the balls just fly out. But maybe I did it fundamentally wrong since I have the racket so low in so many shots?

To me that looks like it, starting too low and trying to counter a topspin ball has too much 'up' in the stroke and 09c already has a high throw angle so it's another recipe for long.
Its something a coach pointed out to me last year also, drop racket down for loop then elbows more up for topspin rally. Words are perhaps not helpful though, it wasn't just elbows, he showed me what he meant of course, that was just the phrase he used e ah time he corrected me!

Getting a bad habit out of the System is much harder than learning a new stroke. Especially without a coach correcting you at all times.

Oh believe me, I know!!
I still have many bad habits I can fall back into, especially when tired.
In fact I've stopped doing any mucking around anymore because as fun as it was I always ended up playing shots with old habits again and basically resurfacing them.
Now I'm always thinking and checking and critically analysing things as I train.
It's not as much fun sometimes but it does pay dividends.
With bad habits already learned you're either going forwards or backwards in this game, there's no standing still it seems?

 

[Zezima]

Alright I filmed myself. I made a new thread for the training videos. I tried to implement the stuff we talked about here like "hitting" more than spinning upwards etc.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/videos-from-my-training-session.36682/

 

[NetProphet]

Alright I filmed myself. I made a new thread for the training videos. I tried to implement the stuff we talked about here like "hitting" more than spinning upwards etc.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/videos-from-my-training-session.36682/

There's a 'help my game' thread in here somewhere that might be more beneficial to post in.
Only certain verified members can comment on videos in there so maybe you get views from more experienced players?
I don't actually know the thread name but I'm sure someone can direct you if you wanted....just an idea

 

[Zezima]

There's a 'help my game' thread in here somewhere that might be more beneficial to post in.
Only certain verified members can comment on videos in there so maybe you get views from more experienced players?
I don't actually know the thread name but I'm sure someone can direct you if you wanted....just an idea

I don´t know about it and I couldn´t find it either. Well I do just hope that people who actually know the details will give me feedback.

I don´t think filming every session, unless I immediately watch whats wrong and change it in the same training ,session is beneficial. I understand Progress takes a while. Just not sure if I should just go all out and play like this in my next upcoming games even if that means I might lose in the shortterm? Otherwise I feel like I will always be too scared to implement in the actual game and only do it in training where I train with weaker players.

Also today I might actually drive 30min to listen 1h to a player that has 2300RC! points talking about technique and stuff. Sadly it won´t be individual he will just demonstrate it and there will be two kids trying to implement what he has to say and the rest will be just watching. Maybe I can pick up something. After all I dont think I will even reach 1800RC in this lifetime. Atleast not with my current trainingspartner.

Alexander N. the one I played last time showed interest in coming to our training sessions sometimes. That would be a good trainingspartner for me. And Fridays and maybe Thursdays I will go to a different club aswell. Currently I am trying to reorganize my trainingsession trying to find better players to train with. So let´s see what comes out.

My little brother also switched from his Petr Korbel 5ply all wood to FZD ALC same rubbers as before (D80FH and Gewo hype kr pro? on the bh) and just casually beat 3 opponents that have atleast 200RC points more than him in one single day. Even though he has 800RC points himself (almost half as me). So him getting better also motivates me if he can reach to my level one day. We also support each other in our games and he is the reason I don´t have to edit my videos.


Upcoming Match will be against these Players + 1 Long Pips player that I didn't get to play last time.

24/25 HR 6. vs BLUD2

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only lost to the lefty. But technically I could have lost to all 3. So no easy opponents for me.

 

[NetProphet]

I understand Progress takes a while. Just not sure if I should just go all out and play like this in my next upcoming games even if that means I might lose in the shortterm?

At some point you have to put your performance and development strategy ahead of the results. Otherwise you are guaranteed to stagnate.

Otherwise I feel like I will always be too scared to implement in the actual game and only do it in training where I train with weaker players.

I watched the FH vids and imo you are already hitting better and more through the ball.
I think if you concentrate on the stroke mechanics for the Loop and the Topspin on both sides and put a big effort into your footwork you can get big results.
I've already seen you play some very good games with good touch and control (particularly V a pips player last yr) so you have a decent foundation of knowledge in matchplay.
Keeping it simple, better footwork will allow you to do everything better but particularly to play more of your attacking shots with more quality, end of.

Also today I might actually drive 30min to listen 1h to a player that has 2300RC! points talking about technique and stuff. Sadly it won´t be individual he will just demonstrate it and there will be two kids trying to implement what he has to say and the rest will be just watching.

Do it, in the absence of 1-2-1 training that's a great idea.
I'm going tonight to watch ( in the division above me) the top 2 teams play each other. Can always learn something by watching imo.

Maybe I can pick up something. After all I dont think I will even reach 1800RC in this lifetime. Atleast not with my current trainingspartner.

You never know your ceiling. I've seen players struggle, struggle, struggle and then BOOM, actually practicing the correct things the correct way lead to a explosion in their level so who knows 🤷

My little brother also switched from his Petr Korbel 5ply all wood to FZD ALC same rubbers as before (D80FH and Gewo hype kr pro? on the bh) and just casually beat 3 opponents that have atleast 200RC points more

FZD ALC a bit quick for me but I live the fatter handle on it, it feels perfect in my hand. I just bought an Innerforce ALC and so far so good so I think I'm done there.
Have you tried his D80? How did you find it?

Upcoming Match will be against these Players + 1 Long Pips player that I didn't get to play last time

You played a great match V pips last yr so I'm expecting big things from you here!! 😁

 

[Zezima]

At some point you have to put your performance and development strategy ahead of the results. Otherwise you are guaranteed to stagnate.

I watched the FH vids and imo you are already hitting better and more through the ball.
I think if you concentrate on the stroke mechanics for the Loop and the Topspin on both sides and put a big effort into your footwork you can get big results.
I've already seen you play some very good games with good touch and control (particularly V a pips player last yr) so you have a decent foundation of knowledge in matchplay.
Keeping it simple, better footwork will allow you to do everything better but particularly to play more of your attacking shots with more quality, end of.

Do it, in the absence of 1-2-1 training that's a great idea.
I'm going tonight to watch ( in the division above me) the top 2 teams play each other. Can always learn something by watching imo.

You never know your ceiling. I've seen players struggle, struggle, struggle and then BOOM, actually practicing the correct things the correct way lead to a explosion in their level so who knows 🤷


FZD ALC a bit quick for me but I live the fatter handle on it, it feels perfect in my hand. I just bought an Innerforce ALC and so far so good so I think I'm done there.
Have you tried his D80? How did you find it?

You played a great match V pips last yr so I'm expecting big things from you here!! 😁

yeah I had to motivate my lil bro to come with me.

I don´t know sometimes the youth coach he is playing in the upper league 1501RC. Was telling me control and then later you can go for power. And I think I was just too much focusing on spinning the ball and never really "hit-brush". But it felt really good. Atleast with the FH.

Yeah you might be right. I will leave the top end rating open for now.

I didn´t like his Setup tbh. Felt faster when driving the ball (warmup). Atleast the first impression only had it for 2minutes in my hand since he had a game later.

You probably mean vs Rene S.? Played him again a few weeks ago. Idk why but all my topspins seem to work vs that kind of player I also get a slower ball back which I like looping. Their Pips Player is usually 4th Seed and my Team puts me 1st Seed so in the same constellation I wouldn´t play against that pips player. I am more worried about the non pips players x). Markus plays with a lot of spin and can smash. Ronny has a good fh but made a lot of unforced errors last time. And the lefty just beat me attacking almost anything.

 

[Zezima]

So I went to the 1h Theory + Demonstration Session with that 2300RC player. Turns out it was more directed to trainers that teach the youth players. He was talking about warmup how and which Drills are effective and so on. Little bit about tactic (never letting the opponent use their FH attack). Talked about differential, timing, rythm on strokes.

I also asked him if its better to hit the side on an incoming half long sidespin ball which I want to loop. And he said the worst is to hit it at the back. I Should always hit it on the right side (with FH) and on the left side with the backhand. He said the incoming sidespin doesn´t matter if its clockwise or anticlockwise. And just contact it thinly and slower in the beginning once I can get the feel I can do a faster stroke.

 

[blahness]

So I went to the 1h Theory + Demonstration Session with that 2300RC player. Turns out it was more directed to trainers that teach the youth players. He was talking about warmup how and which Drills are effective and so on. Little bit about tactic (never letting the opponent use their FH attack). Talked about differential, timing, rythm on strokes.

I also asked him if its better to hit the side on an incoming half long sidespin ball which I want to loop. And he said the worst is to hit it at the back. I Should always hit it on the right side (with FH) and on the left side with the backhand. He said the incoming sidespin doesn´t matter if its clockwise or anticlockwise. And just contact it thinly and slower in the beginning once I can get the feel I can do a faster stroke.

Hmm this is very interesting. I guess you can always brute force everything with a hook loop, but for me that hasn't worked well against clockwise sidespin serves (for me righty FH pendulum or lefty hook serves) unless I have a very precise read of the incoming serve, esp the top/bottom/side percentages.

It definitely depends on the serve spin quality. The higher the serve spin quality the harder it is to brute force everything.

 

[blahness]

I really like this Angle in terms of seeing how much forwards they go with the stroke but really bad at the same time to see how low they go with the rackets. Because to me they go especially ML very low (with the racket) But it feels like during the stroke he gets over the ball not like me with a brush stroke but more like a drive stroke.

Its like I try to spin those Balls with the rubber only. Rubber 100% and Blade 0%. And when I want to go very fast its upwards and because of the "thin" contact the ball flys uncontrolled out. I will try to test and lower the rubber amount a bit so I get more speed on the ball aswell and see if the strokes feel more controlled

Videos can be quite deceiving - because Ma Long has longer arms/legs than say Lin Shidong or Fan Zhendong so even at the same backswing position his bat will always look lower than theirs.

Also taking the bat low using the body and taking it low using the arm is also completely different, even if they might superficially look the same. TT can be really annoying like that.

 

[Zezima]

I just recently watched this video.

since he is as tall as me his movements also looks closer to me (the body not the arm).
But my point here is his service. It surprised me a lot that he was going for reverse pendulum always.
And then there is me who does this service maybe 10% in my games with a good rate always scared that they might get too used to it and just overall makes me feel more confident still having a Plan B if things go south?
While Mengel doesn´t really care about that?

Also a big point is he gets used to the return much more than me. Because with all the different serves I do I can´t really keep in mind how he received that serve the last time or because of a different serve all together the receive is gonna be totally different and not expected to me aswell.

What are your thoughts on this on how to go about it? Better to do all different kind of serves and not knowing the return or lower the service amount (dima,ma long, mengel, and so on) and just learn the few returns that your opponent gives me.

PS: 2:38 he stood also rooted in one place aswell. I think it´s just that we think we have the table covered enough and just need to do slight adjustment with the upper body. Not defending its a good practise. Just saying that it´s hard to get moving subconsiously when the brain says you can hit this ball without moving. Having to think about how to hit the ball and prepare for it takes too much load for me currently to also think about the legs but I know thats wrong.

 

[NetProphet]

But my point here is his service. It surprised me a lot that he was going for reverse pendulum always.

But watch the serves again, he is varying the placement, speed and spin of his rev pendulum but also uses reg pendulum, particularly in game 4.

And then there is me who does this service maybe 10% in my games with a good rate always scared that they might get too used to it and just overall makes me feel more confident still having a Plan B if things go south?
While Mengel doesn´t really care about that?

Rev pen is your plan B.
Reg pen was his plan B.
Rev pen is difficult tho but pros make it look quite easy.

Also a big point is he gets used to the return much more than me. Because with all the different serves I do I can´t really keep in mind how he received that serve the last time or because of a different serve all together the receive is gonna be totally different and not expected to me aswell.

What are your thoughts on this on how to go about it?

You should note the ones they returned easily and the ones they had some difficulty with.
Having them return your serve is fine, as long as they are not getting easy free attacks from it. In an even contest the serves are usually (pretty much) figured out by game 3 so then it's just choosing the ones that set you up for the nxt shot. Example, you're not going to serve long back spin to their fh again if they've aggressively looped the previous three! But if a short backspin serve to the fh followed by your nxt ball (as examples) going off the side of the table on bh side (or something deep to their bh side) is challenging for their footwork (moving them in/out/wide etc) where they give you an easy opening then it makes sense to also do this later in the match when they are tired.

Better to do all different kind of serves and not knowing the return

No.

or lower the service amount (dima,ma long, mengel, and so on) and just learn the few returns that your opponent gives me.

Yes
Even if you've only 2 serves you can execute perfectly (could be as simple as 2 backhand serves, 1 with topspin and 1 with backspin) you can place each of them to 9 different spots on the table, so with just two serve actions that's 18 different serves.
Easy to note the ones the opponent found easy or less easy.

PS: 2:38 he stood also rooted in one place aswell. I think it´s just that we think we have the table covered enough and just need to do slight adjustment with the upper body.

His feet move after every shot though and he doesn't really move position because Wang keeps hitting the same spot.

Not defending its a good practise. Just saying that it´s hard to get moving subconsiously when the brain says you can hit this ball without moving.

It's that gentle hop on the balls of the feet, someone else mentioned it a few pages back I think. It's keeping him ready in case the nxt shot goes somewhere else.

Having to think about how to hit the ball and prepare for it takes too much load for me currently to also think about the legs but I know thats wrong.

Get on the balls of your feet and make a habit of it. It's not difficult to implement. The correct footwork is another thing but being forward on the feet and ready to move isn't hard to implement, in my experience.

 

[Zezima]

Matches from 2 days ago finally uploaded:

1.Match

What am I missing here? more acceleration?


Best Points:

2.Match

He beat me here 3 months ago

And this time it was very close
https://youtu.be/lSKEsFKKnP4
Same problems as before. Basically almost no attacking balls by my side. Very passiv because he got to attack first.

Also what I realized especially in those 2 games was that when I move back or maybe generally aswell that I move 1 leg at a time. Only when pivoting I move both legs but other than that its just one leg back and then the other leg back instead of double jumping back for example. Just no explosiveness at all.

Maybe being more loose helped with blocking the balls atleast. Otherwise I don´t see how I could have gotten the wins + a lot of unforced errors by them.

 

[dingyibvs]

Matches from 2 days ago finally uploaded:

1.Match

What am I missing here? more acceleration?


Best Points:

2.Match

He beat me here 3 months ago

And this time it was very close
https://youtu.be/lSKEsFKKnP4
Same problems as before. Basically almost no attacking balls by my side. Very passiv because he got to attack first.

Also what I realized especially in those 2 games was that when I move back or maybe generally aswell that I move 1 leg at a time. Only when pivoting I move both legs but other than that its just one leg back and then the other leg back instead of double jumping back for example. Just no explosiveness at all.

Maybe being more loose helped with blocking the balls atleast. Otherwise I don´t see how I could have gotten the wins + a lot of unforced errors by them.

The first guy played a lot like you, with footwork being the limiting factor. On that particular shot it's the timing of acceleration, you started a bit too early. It helps by staying loose and tighten up just before contact like the shot that followed.

For some reason your BH stroke incorporates footwork a lot better, contributing to way better rallying abilities on the BH side. See how you moved your feet for every shot in the first point against the 2nd guy. I wonder if it's because of your long reach, making it easy for you to contact the ball on the FH side so you don't think to move.

I've mentioned it on a different thread before, but footwork is so much more than just getting from point A to point B. As part of the movement you load your legs which increases explosiveness, you also rebalance your whole body which contributes to quicker strokes and recovery. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. For example, when you reach your arm back for a backswing your legs need to shift too to counter that action, keeping you balanced and ready for the forward swing. In real games every shot is different, every backswing and forward swing is different, so your legs need to constantly adjust to maintain your balance, even when you don't need to actually move anywhere.

 

[Zezima]

For some reason your BH stroke incorporates footwork a lot better, contributing to way better rallying abilities on the BH side. See how you moved your feet for every shot in the first point against the 2nd guy. I wonder if it's because of your long reach, making it easy for you to contact the ball on the FH side so you don't think to move.

One of the reasons and also I have lots of "tolerance" on the FH side to hit a ball. I just try to play a shot where I am currently standing and if the ball comes better I can hit it "faster" if not "slower".. I don´t have it developed yet to adjust my standing position to make it "perfect" so I can hit a better shot. So def need some work here...




League games from yesterday:

24/25 RR 7. KLAU2

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The first 2 games not so surprising that I won since I had won without much trouble in the first half of the season.

What was surprising was that I beat Noah 3-0!! when he had beaten me 3-1 in the first half of the season

In comparison the game back then when I had lost:

I just felt like I am a much more developed player now than him.

Overall I am still not happy with my technique. Watched all 3 games and I tend to loop with a closed to open racket angle again for some reason... But compared to first half this time my Backhand didn´t let me down. The errors got reduced by atleast 50% I would say. Also attacking long and half long serves got me in a better position immediately aswell. Also got many points from my own service or 3rd Ball attack. What are your thoughts and how can I get rid of this bad habit closed to open loop. I thought I really trained it alot just to see it´s the same as before..

 

[Zezima]

Just had a good trainings session yesterday at the end even with multiball (long backspin and then against block)
shortening my backspin on the forehand and starting with a more open racket so I dont go closed to open and it worked really well. Sometimes I made mistakes focusing too much on the arm movement and forgetting to use the power from the body especially hips during the stroke. But thats expected I guess when all the capacity goes on some part of the technique and you forget others.
Monday is 2nd last matchday. Gonna play vs a long pips player that I lost to (Karl-Heinz). The old dude who chops with the long pips (backhand) and gives a sidebackspin push with his forehand. Very stable. Gotta think of something on how to play vs him this time, really don´t want to lose against him again.

Also our youth coach told me that against higher blocks I don´t have to stay low with my body and can be straight to loop those balls. Is that really the case or do I make the mistake of letting the ball jump too high and should still loop with a lower stance but just take it earlier? I am really not a big fan of looping balls when its rising.

 

[NetProphet]

Also our youth coach told me that against higher blocks I don´t have to stay low with my body and can be straight to loop those balls. Is that really the case or do I make the mistake of letting the ball jump too high and should still loop with a lower stance but just take it earlier?

Assuming you want to take the ball at its highest point then of course the need to be crouched isn't there if the block is high and you are then attempting a smash rather than a loop.
But there is no one correct thing, there are options across what you want to do or what suits you better,or suits the opponent worse.
You can take it early and on the rise; which gives less time to the opponent and given the ball is closer to the net can give you better angles to work with.
You can take it at top of bounce;smash or loop kill.
Or you can take it on its way down. This isn't ideal but sometimes it's necessary if you were out of position, have to move in from further back or were slow to pivot to FH etc.

I am really not a big fan of looping balls when its rising.

That's a difficult shot (for me anyway) anyway, especially over the table but it's really worth practising. V those blockers who seem to get everything back, taking one early with good control to find a good angle and really move them is a weapon against them....

 

[Zezima]

Assuming you want to take the ball at its highest point then of course the need to be crouched isn't there if the block is high and you are then attempting a smash rather than a loop.
But there is no one correct thing, there are options across what you want to do or what suits you better,or suits the opponent worse.
You can take it early and on the rise; which gives less time to the opponent and given the ball is closer to the net can give you better angles to work with.
You can take it at top of bounce;smash or loop kill.
Or you can take it on its way down. This isn't ideal but sometimes it's necessary if you were out of position, have to move in from further back or were slow to pivot to FH etc.

That's a difficult shot (for me anyway) anyway, especially over the table but it's really worth practising. V those blockers who seem to get everything back, taking one early with good control to find a good angle and really move them is a weapon against them....

Yeah its just that I can predict the ball better when it's falling down again while on the rise it can still go sideways if it had some sidespin on it. I also have harder time going over the ball when it's still rising. Like how fast it is rising etc.
That's why I like watching how the ball arcs up and then hit when it's falling down is easier. In drills obviously I don't mind too much taking it earlier but there I get used to the speed and know there is no sidespin or any other weird path the ball can take compared to matches