WTT Champions Incheon 2025 - 1-6 Apr 2025

[NetProphet]

W

definitely edge, it’s clear in the slow mo but the umpire was quite incompetent…

Well she said touch, 3 or 4 times but the players didn't seem to know what she meant....
Even Bobrow wanted to clarify for them what she had said.
Now whether she was correct or not is another thing, every time I saw it I changed my mind!

 

[NetProphet]

Even in LGYs prime, Lee Sangsu was never going to be an easy match nor a guaranteed win. LSS is one of the few from the recent generations who has always been a threat to the top Chinese when he's having his day

Top Chinese, mmmm, dunno.
But LGY, yes definitely

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Top Chinese, mmmm, dunno.
But LGY, yes definitely

He's beaten Ma Long twice as well as pushed him to the brink at 2021 Tokyo, Zhang Jike, prime FZD once, Xu Xin twice, and maybe others. What are you unsure about?

 

[NetProphet]

He's beaten Ma Long twice as well as pushed him to the brink at 2021 Tokyo, Zhang Jike, prime FZD once, Xu Xin twice, and maybe others. What are you unsure about?

Your statement was that, on his day, he has always been a threat, in the past.
My point (I should have said in my post) is more about now; I'm unsure about his ability to pull out performances to really threaten the top Chinese (like WCQ and LSD).
He's been on the slide since his peak (prob 6 yrs ago?).
He hasn't really won anything except the Asian games without Chinese competition 5 yrs ago or whenever.
Maybe there are things I'm not considering but he hasn't struck me in recent as someone likely to beat a top player

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Your statement was that, on his day, he has always been a threat, in the past.
My point (I should have said in my post) is more about now; I'm unsure about his ability to pull out performances to really threaten the top Chinese (like WCQ and LSD).
He's been on the slide since his peak (prob 6 yrs ago?).
He hasn't really won anything except the Asian games without Chinese competition 5 yrs ago or whenever.
Maybe there are things I'm not considering but he hasn't struck me in recent as someone likely to beat a top player

Yes my post was referring to him historically but he has clearly a lot of game left in his tank recently. He beat Fan Zhendong just about a year and a half ago. In the last year he's beaten Shinozuka, Franziska, Yuan Licen, Huang Youzheng, Xiang Peng, Kallberg, Ma Long, and LGY twice. Not top Chinese depending on your interpretation (besides ML) but the point is that he's always had a playstyle that poses a risk and has shown he has the ability to beat anyone on his best days.

 

[ZFT]

Being in prime can mean you could still lose to an opponent if the skill gap is too large.

Prime in table tennis is different as there is a large mental and technical component.

So although you could argue LSS was in his physical prime a couple of years ago, it’s no good to have the fitness and strength if you cannot execute at the highest technical and mental level.

You’ll normally see modern defenders
reach their peak later and maintain it longer, even after their physical prime. This is because they need more time to master a wider range of shots and develop the decision-making skills to know when and where to use them effectively.

 

[NetProphet]

Yes my post was referring to him historically but he has clearly a lot of game left in his tank recently. He beat Fan Zhendong just about a year and a half ago. In the last year he's beaten Shinozuka, Franziska, Yuan Licen, Huang Youzheng, Xiang Peng, Kallberg, Ma Long, and LGY twice. Not top Chinese depending on your interpretation (besides ML) but the point is that he's always had a playstyle that poses a risk and has shown he has the ability to beat anyone on his best days.

Yeah, interpretation eh.
That list is (except FZD and ML of course) tier 2 and tier 3 players, excellent players who will never make tier 1 (world no 1 rank is my definition for that but that's obviously subjective).
Anyway it was the phrase 'Top Chinese' in your initial post that jumped out and made me think no way, not now but obviously looking back is different.
He caught FZD out of sorts in that match you referenced.anf damn that result disappointed me cos I was at that Frankfurt tournament and couldn't wait to see FZD or Timo but LSS knocked FZD out the day before I arrived having beaten Boll in round 1 😂
He went to 5 sets with Felix in QF next so he was playing well.
Anyway, recent results suggest a decline to and I guess I was writing him off a bit and while that could be premature I'm still not convinced.

 

[NextLevel]

Yes my post was referring to him historically but he has clearly a lot of game left in his tank recently. He beat Fan Zhendong just about a year and a half ago. In the last year he's beaten Shinozuka, Franziska, Yuan Licen, Huang Youzheng, Xiang Peng, Kallberg, Ma Long, and LGY twice. Not top Chinese depending on your interpretation (besides ML) but the point is that he's always had a playstyle that poses a risk and has shown he has the ability to beat anyone on his best days.

The main reason he didn't make the Olympic team was that Cho Daesong won through rankings qualification. But as a quality player to withstand the pressure, there was no reason that Lee Sang Su couldn't have made the team. I am sure to some degree the Koreans have mild regret about it with his recent vein of form but maybe Cho Daesong will make them forget about it at some point.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Yeah, interpretation eh.
That list is (except FZD and ML of course) tier 2 and tier 3 players, excellent players who will never make tier 1 (world no 1 rank is my definition for that but that's obviously subjective).
Anyway it was the phrase 'Top Chinese' in your initial post that jumped out and made me think no way, not now but obviously looking back is different.
He caught FZD out of sorts in that match you referenced.anf damn that result disappointed me cos I was at that Frankfurt tournament and couldn't wait to see FZD or Timo but LSS knocked FZD out the day before I arrived having beaten Boll in round 1 😂
He went to 5 sets with Felix in QF next so he was playing well.
Anyway, recent results suggest a decline to and I guess I was writing him off a bit and while that could be premature I'm still not convinced.

Players who make WR1 as the definition of "tier 1" is a pretty narrow definition of a tier but to each their own. Accepting that definition though, how many non-Chinese have beaten ML twice (and almost a third), FZD, XX twice, and ZJK, all of whom were WR1 players?

 

[NextLevel]

Players who make WR1 as the definition of "tier 1" is a pretty narrow definition of a tier but to each their own. Accepting that definition though, how many non-Chinese have beaten ML twice (and almost a third), FZD, XX twice, and ZJK, all of whom were WR1 players?

The only other person mon-Chinese who has beaten the trinity of Ma Long, Xu Xin and Fan Zhendong outside of Lee Sang Su is the "inferior" Franziska, whose status as an inferior to Moregardh has been affirmed by Zeio.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

The only other person who has beaten the trinity of Ma Long, Xu Xin and Fan Zhendong outside of Lee Sang Su is the "inferior" Franziska, whose status as an inferior to Moregardh has been affirmed by Zeio.

Franziska and Harimoto were the only two that immediately came to mind as having a comparable list of top player wins.

 

[banbekas]

Yes my post was referring to him historically but he has clearly a lot of game left in his tank recently. He beat Fan Zhendong just about a year and a half ago. In the last year he's beaten Shinozuka, Franziska, Yuan Licen, Huang Youzheng, Xiang Peng, Kallberg, Ma Long, and LGY twice. Not top Chinese depending on your interpretation (besides ML) but the point is that he's always had a playstyle that poses a risk and has shown he has the ability to beat anyone on his best days.

LSS is actually comparable to the top chinese when he's on. Either that or FZD, ML, were never that good.

 

[joshmak10]

The main reason he didn't make the Olympic team was that Cho Daesong won through rankings qualification. But as a quality player to withstand the pressure, there was no reason that Lee Sang Su couldn't have made the team. I am sure to some degree the Koreans have mild regret about it with his recent vein of form but maybe Cho Daesong will make them forget about it at some point.

I personally would’ve loved to see LSS or AJH take LJH’s spot and put CDS/SYB as the mixed doubles since LJH was (I believe) playing injured with back brace and honestly just having really poor results leading up to the Olympics. But I know it doesn’t work that way since mixed doubles have to qualify themselves.

 

[NextLevel]

Franziska and Harimoto were the only two that immediately came to mind as having a comparable list of top player wins.

Harimoto did beat Wang Chuqin but never Xu Xin. He and Lin Yun Jun may be reasonably given a mild honorary status. But Boll never beat Xu Xin or Wang Chuqin as far as I know and obviously he never beat Fan though he came close on one occasion.

 

[NextLevel]

I personally would’ve loved to see LSS or AJH take LJH’s spot and put CDS/SYB as the mixed doubles since LJH was (I believe) playing injured with back brace and honestly just having really poor results leading up to the Olympics. But I know it doesn’t work that way since mixed doubles have to qualify themselves.

And LJH did get the job done so no regrets. If CDS had played better in singles, this would have been moot.

 

[joshmak10]

And LJH did get the job done so no regrets. If CDS had played better in singles, this would have been moot.

Agreed, CDS was surprisingly shocking against Jha

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

ZYL has in effect done the bidding of the CNT by taking out the Japanese on her path to the SF. A creative way of getting around the NER limit.

 

[JackJohnson]

Anyone notice with this event some of the camera angles are poor quality? Like it would look so clear 1080p then when it goes front on video when you see the replay of the rallies between the players it looks like 360p. It wasn’t like this at the previous Smash and Champions events.

 

[Vlad Celler]

ZYL has in effect done the bidding of the CNT by taking out the Japanese on her path to the SF. A creative way of getting around the NER limit.

Subjectively - Ito Mima and Harimoto Miwa - who played better here with Chen Xintong?

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

2-4 same result