WTT Champions Incheon 2025 - 1-6 Apr 2025

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Xiang Peng can finally be that 5th spot for Team China? What a performance from him.

XP played very well, no doubt.
But then he loss to Dima, Kuo and Matsushima in his previous encounters this year in WTT.
Kuo probably the most damaging, a 16 year old lowly ranked player from Taiwan

in terms of world ranking, XP is already that 5th player.
only now, his world ranking is now higher, and would have better seeding positions - to allow him less chance of hitting higher seeds early round in competition. So his journey should just be a bit easier on paper.
Good to see some new faces never the less.

 

[blahness]

Jesus that was 2 ugly sets by LSS. He looks tired, the shots that require a lot of quick up and down movements by the legs he's straight missing.

i have no idea what happened - he was missing everything and couldn't make a high quality loop to save his life, not from the BH or from the FH - I think he wasn't brushing the ball sufficiently at all. Weird af imo. Tbh Xiang Peng didn't even do anything particularly impressive this match, he just played normally and LSS just self destructed.

 

[joshmak10]

XP played very well, no doubt.
But then he loss to Dima, Kuo and Matsushima in his previous encounters this year in WTT.
Kuo probably the most damaging, a 16 year old lowly ranked player from Taiwan

in terms of world ranking, XP is already that 5th player.
only now, his world ranking is now higher, and would have better seeding positions - to allow him less chance of hitting higher seeds early round in competition. So his journey should just be a bit easier on paper.
Good to see some new faces never the less.

The losses make me think that even with this champions win, the coaches might still think twice about making him the fifth player for WTTC and team events. They seemed to trust CYY (until probably this champions event lol) and HYZ more, with also a plan to develop WRB no doubt. But with LGY’s age and poor form, I could see a LSD-WCQ-LJK-XP-HYZ lineup at championships for years to come, with WRB eventually taking LJK’s spot

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

The losses make me think that even with this champions win, the coaches might still think twice about making him the fifth player for WTTC and team events. They seemed to trust CYY (until probably this champions event lol) and HYZ more, with also a plan to develop WRB no doubt. But with LGY’s age and poor form, I could see a LSD-WCQ-LJK-XP-HYZ lineup at championships for years to come, with WRB eventually taking LJK’s spot

And I think you cant be far off

 

[banbekas]

LSS just went back to his usual self in the final. It's very likely he choked because of the home arena, putting unnecessary baggage on himself to carry the country against China.

 

[banbekas]

Comparable how?
You say when "he's on". So like twice a year for a few years way back he played so unbelievably well as to earn comparison, for a few minutes?
Then most of the 6-20 rank players are comparable to them also because they can all play unbelievably well on their day.
And that being the case I can't see how your statement carries any weight cos if they're all comparable to ML and FZD then please tell me how you differentiate.

Because for me, pulling out a few maverick results in 16 years does not make you comparable to two of the greatest players of all time.

LSS has never had the ability to win consistently. Winning consistently is what makes the great who they are. Good days, bad days, strong opponent, weak opponent, feeling good feeling bad they find a way in the heat of battle to get it done and that's what you need to accumulate titles.

I agree is LSS is a good player, is playing well at the moment etc but comparable to FZD and ML, absolutely not.

And given the people who have liked that statement I have to wonder what's going on.
Am I really crazy to think my questioning of LSS as a threat to top Chinese players is legitimate when people in here with actual table tennis knowledge think comparing him to FZD and ML is warranted.....
If you took all of LSSs best days and put them together into one week he still couldn't beat ML or FZD to a title.
Cos if he could have he'd have down it by now at least once.

I'm not going to even argue about this. You have your own view about this, and so do I.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

LSS just went back to his usual self in the final. It's very likely he choked because of the home arena, putting unnecessary baggage on himself to carry the country against China.

I am sure everyone who watched the match can see discomfort in his arm between points.

Either injury or fatigue, there was physical reasons for sure.

In fact the home arena likely motivated him for the brilliant performance these few days

 

[NextLevel]

The losses make me think that even with this champions win, the coaches might still think twice about making him the fifth player for WTTC and team events. They seemed to trust CYY (until probably this champions event lol) and HYZ more, with also a plan to develop WRB no doubt. But with LGY’s age and poor form, I could see a LSD-WCQ-LJK-XP-HYZ lineup at championships for years to come, with WRB eventually taking LJK’s spot

I think it is quite obvious that Xiang Peng had backhand issues and needed to work on his backhand play. This tournament is encouraging in that regard. He beat players that would previously have eaten hin alive in backhand to. Backhand matchups. We just have to see whether it lasts.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

The winner of the tournament

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

What happenned? She went to the same school as I did.

haha, really?

Of the 21 yellow card handed out, her KPI was number 1 with 10 yellow cards.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

haha, really?

Of the 21 yellow card handed out, her KPI was number 1 with 10 yellow cards.

Don't mess with Asian Obasan!

 

[rpb23]

That was over so quickly I can't decide if XP was just too good or LSS choked... ?
🤷‍♂️

XP played 120% for sure. But I don't call LSS choked, simply fatigued and out of gas.
Playing two matches at this level on the same day is very tough for older players.
Giving credit to XP who really has improved with his backhand and also added forehand power.
XP is firmly taking LGY's position now.

 

[rpb23]

The winner of the tournament

View attachment 35669

The most feared WTT ref. Her demeanor demands respect.

 

[JackJohnson]

The winner of the tournament

View attachment 35669

Her and the Korean woman umpire handed out the most yellow cards. Didn’t see any of the male umpires hand out any or as much yellow cards as these two.

The only positive thing is that she was fair to both players. Didn’t treat one player differently to the other but there were some yellow cards that were handed out that were definitely uncalled for time wasting.

 

[dingyibvs]

I think it is quite obvious that Xiang Peng had backhand issues and needed to work on his backhand play. This tournament is encouraging in that regard. He beat players that would previously have eaten hin alive in backhand to. Backhand matchups. We just have to see whether it lasts.

I think the switch to the W968 is really helping his BH. Rather than trying to win with quality, he's just winning on the BH side the Ma Long way, with good defense and change ups in placement and pace, at least enough for him to get a big FH in. Same with his BH flick, which also uses placement and pace to be effective rather than outright quality like WCQ or FZD. I do wonder how he'd fare against fellow CNT players though as they're much more familiar with this style of play.

 

[joshmak10]

I think it is quite obvious that Xiang Peng had backhand issues and needed to work on his backhand play. This tournament is encouraging in that regard. He beat players that would previously have eaten hin alive in backhand to. Backhand matchups. We just have to see whether it lasts.

Switching to W968 from acB makes sense for him in that regard. His forehand looks miles better now and he can work on having a safe BH like Ma Long

 

[banbekas]

I am sure everyone who watched the match can see discomfort in his arm between points.

Either injury or fatigue, there was physical reasons for sure.

In fact the home arena likely motivated him for the brilliant performance these few days

For sure, but he needed to force his body for one last match. A painkiller shot or something between the match like XX did back in 2015 WTTC.

Home arena motivated him before the final. Choking in the home arena is a common thing. After all this is one of the biggest moments in his life.

As for me, I think his purple patch was over in the final. He was back to his level after a few moments of bull run.

 

[Shine]

The 'best day argument' is entirely subjective and needs a shovel of nuance. It doesn't take into account the condition of the top players in that match, and it doesn't accord any significance to the overall win rate against the top players.

For example, if Player A has a 4/30 win rate against ML/FZD/XX, but has at least one win against the trio. I don't think saying he can beat them on "his best day" is a good measure of player A's ability, more like he can beat them when they have their worst days, when heaven and earth align, and the creeks don't rise.

But a 30% win rate against the top players definitely warrants a "can beat them on his best day" tag.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

For sure, but he needed to force his body for one last match. A painkiller shot or something between the match like XX did back in 2015 WTTC.

you speak like someone who has walked that path??
how do you know he did not take anything to help?

Home arena motivated him before the final. Choking in the home arena is a common thing. After all this is one of the biggest moments in his life.

this is some big words

As for me, I think his purple patch was over in the final. He was back to his level after a few moments of bull run.

I wonder if we watched the same match.
2 players, one will succeed, one will fail.
LSS had a very good tournament and nobody even expected him to finish so far.

Whether or not he chocked or his body ran out of steam, he did a damn good job.
dude is like what, 36.... not sure how many more WTT he would have left, and i'm not sure which other Koreans can go through what he gone through to get to the final, it was no easy draw.

 

[NetProphet]

The best day argument is entirely subjective and needs a shovel of nuance. It doesn't take into account the condition of the top players in that match, and it doesn't give any significance to the overall win rate against the top players.
For example if Player A has a 4/30 win rate against ML/FZD/XX, but has at least one win against the trio. I don't think saying he can beat them on "his best day" is a good measure of player A's ability, more like he can beat them when they have their worst days, when heaven and earth align, and the creeks don't rise.

But a 30% win rate against the top players definitely warrants a "can beat them on his best day".

We just have different parameters for how we assess players and also what tier they belong to.
It is all subjective and that why discussion is needed and usually that involves recognising the points of agreement on both sides (as I've done in reference to past results) but there is no attempt to assess the player right now and the collective results of the past 6 years because that doesn't fit the subjective narrative.
All we can do is wait, and if he takes down a few more top Chinese then I'm wrong and if he doesn't then I'm wrong because, well, you know, years ago and we'll just keep saying he's comparable to FZD and ML.

I had a similar(ISH) argument about Gauzy before where I was trying to say I've seen him play so well and look like he was going to pull a result, like where he looked like a threat and superior players had to up their game to beat him. He beat XX in 2019 and expectations for future results were there but they never happened. He'd go 1-0 up and lose, 2-1 up and lose etc. Have a game point at 10-9 and miss it etc and I was laughed out of here because Gauzy is a pretender and a joker apparently.
And maybe he is but he can play in a way sometimes that makes him a danger but I never classed him as a real threat or compared him with FZD or ML.
I'll go out in a limb and guess Gauzy has a better H2H V LSS and that LSS was beating him 6 yrs ago and Gauzy has better record in recent yrs but memory only, could be they're tied on H2H...?
Anyway, I'm flogging a dead horse so I'll take my assertions about tiers, levels and threats and keep them for training hall discussion, it's not constructive discussion in here