Zhang Jike: "Those who rely primarily on a Backhand system, can not reach the top"

[NextLevel]

I don't know ZJ was implying that, what I got from the video is BH dominant players will come short in the footwork department compared to FH dominant players due to their over reliance on BH, he is also comparing the 1%ters, the cream of the crop, those players have solid BH and FHs, He even said in that video that while his BH was good he relied on his FH during difficult times, to be honest I haven't seen the new crop of players cover the table with the legendary footwork Ma Long, Xu Xin, FZD and Zhan Jike had, the new batch do tend to go for more BH shots in rallies instead of pivoting to the stronger FH.

This is so not true, especially about WCQ and to a lesser extent about LSD. Even Liang Jingkun pivots, and Liang is probably the most backhand oriented player on the CNT after LSD. But I have seen Wang Chuqin run from the forehand side to the backhand side to play a pivot forehand on a loose rally ball, any one claiming Wang doesn't pivot is just making stuff up.

No one has the time to pivot as much, most people pivot when they can anticipate reliably and they believe their opponent's defense cannot withstand their forehand. This has been true since the days of 38mm ball, the problem back then was that backhand technique was just developing and the materials were relatively slow, so people would look for the forehand to finish the point. But just being able to block better with the backhand started putting pressure on forehand pivot so one could not just do it on any ball, one had to be sure that one had the right opportunity.

The main point is that the forehand is more reliable than the backhand when the ball is moving all over. The forehand requires more athleticism to support so players who use it to get better are usually going to have more reliable games. But anyone who claims that anyone on the CNT is playing a backhand oriented game like Harimoto or LYJ used to, I don't know what you are watching.

LSD can pivot more but everyone has to build a game over a lifetime of playing. If he was Xiang Peng, who pivots much more, he would not be at the top of the CNT.

 

[Persistence TT]

Let's not forget that zhang jike's income is directly affected by his public image now and not his table tennis skills. Social media are annoyingly powerful in our era.

I am a fan of this channel and I have watched tons of zjk tutorials, but it is more than obvious that sometimes, what he says is just pure nonsense. Probably just to make a hype?

I could be wrong but since I follow him on other topics , I highly doubt it

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I thought he said top 5. I figured he was making fun of them all coz they have strong backhand.

its his business to be talking to the internet community

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Let's not forget that zhang jike's income is directly affected by his public image now and not his table tennis skills. Social media are annoyingly powerful in our era.

I am a fan of this channel and I have watched tons of zjk tutorials, but it is more than obvious that sometimes, what he says is just pure nonsense. Probably just to make a hype?

I could be wrong but since I follow him on other topics , I highly doubt it

I replied without reading your point first.
you are spot on

now the whole world is talking about his remark - and someone even translated the video in English.
Donic is very happy

 

[NextLevel]

Was he throwing shade at WCQ, LSD, Tomo and Hugo?

He is kinda throwing shade at LSD.

 

[Metaxa]

Jean Michel Save had a great FH but only a weak to mediocre BH that did improve later. Admittedly in different times but he did reach the world top.

 

[Robin0910]

Jean Michel Save had a great FH but only a weak to mediocre BH that did improve later. Admittedly in different times but he did reach the world top.

but he was never even close to become a grand slam champion. There are plenty of top players with strong bh and weak forehand but grand slam champions as ZJK stated? Not really

 

[Metaxa]

but he was never even close to become a grand slam champion. There are plenty of top players with strong bh and weak forehand but grand slam champions as ZJK stated? Not really

I therefore agree with ZJK.

 

[Persistence TT]

but he was never even close to become a grand slam champion. There are plenty of top players with strong bh and weak forehand but grand slam champions as ZJK stated? Not really

Actually saive was a powerhouse back then, I suspect you are below 30 years of age because he was a constant threat in the 90's, he was the first player to loop kill literally everything from both sides

The 90's were crazy because there were like 10-15 top players and literally every single one of them could reach the top. So in reality saive was more close to a grand slam than you think. It was much much harder to achieve it then

Just look at some facts

from 90's to early 2000's Liu Guoliang and Kong linghui were the only chinese grand slammers , by far from the rest chinese

early 2000- to early2010 ma lin wang liqin and wang hao got really close and if you think about it, all 3 of them could actually achieve it

2010 to early 2020 we got 3 grand slammers, and ma long being a double one

 

[Robin0910]

Actually saive was a powerhouse back then, I suspect you are below 30 years of age because he was a constant threat in the 90's, he was the first player to loop kill literally everything from both sides

The 90's were crazy because there were like 10-15 top players and literally every single one of them could reach the top. So in reality saive was more close to a grand slam than you think. It was much much harder to achieve it then

Just look at some facts

from 90's to early 2000's Liu Guoliang and Kong linghui were the only chinese grand slammers , by far from the rest chinese

early 2000- to early2010 ma lin wang liqin and wang hao got really close and if you think about it, all 3 of them could actually achieve it

2010 to early 2020 we got 3 grand slammers, and ma long being a double one

I know he was a fantastic player but he never came close to win the olympics, world champs or world cup

 

[Olio]

I know he was a fantastic player but he never came close to win the olympics, world champs or world cup

He was silver medal in the world championships in 1993, losing to Gatien, after beating JOW in the semis.

He was VERY close to winning the world championships, losing 21-18 in the deciding game

 

[ZFT]

I feel FH dominant players from 17-22 years old need to build out their strength and athleticism while adapting or evolving their bigger FH stroke to suit their changing body shape and opponent countering quality. This step up into the senior level demands it and the performances will seem very inconsistent vs their junior results during this critical 5 year stretch.

Truls, as a FH-dominant player is an interesting case as he reached the WTTC final at 19, though at the time I felt he was a clear tier below his more BH oriented contemporaries in Tomo, LYJ and Viscaria-wielding WCQ.

It’s really only in the last year or so (he turned 23 last month) the gap has narrowed compared to his initial breakthrough in 2021. He beat HT in their last meeting at the China Smash and although his fortunate timing played a big part in Paris he still needed to be technically and mentally strong enough to take advantage. It’s more likely his poor record vs LYJ will improve rather than extending out over these coming years.

If I’m correct in my assessment, watch for the trajectory of the FH-oriented Xiang Peng (who turned 22) start to converge closer with LSD (who turned 20 last week).

Togami, 23 and An Jaehyun, 25 with clean health are ones to watch right now and in 3-5 years I predict Leo Iizuka can do the same if he can complete the FH adaptation process.

 

[Olio]

And he won the 1994 european championships at a time where Europe was top of the world (4 europeans in the semis of the 1993 world championships, following the swedes titles in 89 and 91)

 

[Attitude]

I might add that the title is utter clickbait. He never mentioned the end of anything whatsoever.

I think he criticises players to be too much reliant on their bh (aka LSD) and arent therefore not that good in their footwork and therefore in their fh.

While i agree that there is somewhat of a correlation in these things, i doubt that had anything to do with lsd and especially not wcq losing here.

As stated before wcq has amazing footwork and a fh that is one of the strongest. Same goes for ljk imo, so the only one who would match these statements in the top 5-10 would be lsd.
But i dont see his fh as weakness in itself. Though you could argue that his footwork isnt good enough right now, i think he simply lost because he couldnt change the rythm in the match. Hugo overpowered him in so many shots on both sides.
His shots landed way more often (especially his inside out bh) than usual and Hugo played closer to the table so non of his opponents had enough to adjust to his shots.

Just compare hugo in his former matches (maybe even his past matches against wcq and lsd) and you will see that hugo played slightly different but most important he landed way more of his hardest shots on the table.

Imo lsd his just not experienced enough to be able to defend himself against this power or to prevent it in itself. He lacks some variety and rythm breaker strategies. In that case he remembers me exactly of Fzd in his age of 16-20. Amazing bh and really strong abilities, but unable to change the game of he gets overwhelmed by whatever.

 

[Persistence TT]

I know he was a fantastic player but he never came close to win the olympics, world champs or world cup

It appears to me that you dont know your stuff

He was a world championship finalist and a world cup finalist. So that is pretty close. much closer than european players like ovtcharov,boll or any other modern top player that competes with the chinese today.

You obviously dont know that in the 90's the norm was european top players consistently beating the chinese in every major tournament. Especially from 88 to 94.

just go on wikipedia and you will find the data there.

Only when the chinese managed to produce players like kong linghui (the first modern two winged looper , based on waldner ) and liu guoliang (who's game was pretty much unbeatable because his serves were too good) the chinese overcame european table tennis.

 

[ZFT]

You obviously dont know that in the 90's the norm was european top players consistently beating the chinese in every major tournament. Especially from 88 to 94.

just go on wikipedia and you will find the data there.

Only when the chinese managed to produce players like kong linghui (the first modern two winged looper , based on waldner) and liu guoliang (who's game was pretty much unbeatable because his serves were too good) the chinese overcame european table tennis.

It was during this time the Chinese were exploring the whole kitchen sink array of play style away from the short pips quick attack of Jiang Jialiang that had been badly exposed against speed glued double inverted of the Europeans. Liu Guoliang was the last of this line.

Johnny Huang the double short pips shakehander immigrated away to Canada. He Zhi Wen went to Spain.

Wang Tao - inverted FH, short pips backhand

Ding Song/Wang Hao - short pips modern defenders

Lu Lin - traditional Japanese penholder

Ma Wenge was actually the first double inverted looper that came through with success that would eventually pave the way for Kong Linghui, Liu Guozheng and Wang Liqin.

Ma Lin entered the setup in 1994.

 

[Persistence TT]

It was during this time the Chinese were exploring the whole kitchen sink array of play style away from the short pips quick attack of Jiang Jialiang that had been badly exposed against speed glued double inverted of the Europeans. Liu Guoliang was the last of this line.

Johnny Huang the double short pips shakehander immigrated away to Canada. He Zhi Wen went to Spain.

Wang Tao - inverted FH, short pips backhand

Ding Song/Wang Hao - short pips modern defenders

Lu Lin - traditional Japanese penholder

Ma Wenge was actually the first double inverted looper that came through with success that would eventually pave the way for Kong Linghui, Liu Guozheng and Wang Liqin.

Ma Lin entered the setup in 1994.

yes ma wenge was the "prototype" but he was not consistent enough to be in the conversation when it comes to top chinese players.

The variety of the players u mentioned was indeed phenomenal

 

[Robin0910]

It appears to me that you dont know your stuff

He was a world championship finalist and a world cup finalist. So that is pretty close. much closer than european players like ovtcharov,boll or any other modern top player that competes with the chinese today.

You obviously dont know that in the 90's the norm was european top players consistently beating the chinese in every major tournament. Especially from 88 to 94.

just go on wikipedia and you will find the data there.

Only when the chinese managed to produce players like kong linghui (the first modern two winged looper , based on waldner ) and liu guoliang (who's game was pretty much unbeatable because his serves were too good) the chinese overcame european table tennis.

Doesn’t change the fact that he was nowhere near close to becoming a grand slam champion as I stated in the original comment.
Also, newer European generations like Dima as you wrote was much closer to become one by actually winning the World Cup in 2017 and being a double Olympics bronze medallist. I still don’t think he was close to become one as he never performed well at WTTCs but he was definitely much closer.
I only wrote the other comment because you started writing about how great he was but it still doesn’t fit Zhang Jike’s narrative as he was talking about why some players whose forehand is weaker can’t become grand slam champions.

 

[StreamOfWater]

It started off quite nice, however, now it's funny to watch how people here assess the pros, judge if technique is good or not, judge how something close or far away was, compare skills, throw statements like facts. Kind of an audacity and ego to have, in all honesty. Especially when everyone's experience, skill, training environment as well as achievements are incomparable, obviously including mine, in comparison to that of CNT. It's incredibly unlikely for such accomplished player like Zhang Jike to sprout nonsense, there's really no merit to that, even if taking views/media into account. Not to mention, what he said in the video is incredibly logical, it makes complete sense, it follows tendencies as well. I'd understand if this was kept as "opinionated" thread with hypothetical thoughts/insights, but right now it's just bullshit, straight up. Like, what even is this about, LMAO? Who here is actually qualified/in a position to critique? It's baffling

 

[Persistence TT]

Doesn’t change the fact that he was nowhere near close to becoming a grand slam champion as I stated in the original comment.
Also, newer European generations like Dima as you wrote was much closer to become one by actually winning the World Cup in 2017 and being a double Olympics bronze medallist. I still don’t think he was close to become one as he never performed well at WTTCs but he was definitely much closer.
I only wrote the other comment because you started writing about how great he was but it still doesn’t fit Zhang Jike’s narrative as he was talking about why some players whose forehand is weaker can’t become grand slam champions.

You are making assumptions about players you never witnessed playing in their prime.

You didn't even know he was a world cup and world championship finalist. Yet u assume and compare him with dima.

Dima and every other non chinese player DID NOT consistently beat the chinese like saive did

As for zhang jike, I wrote my opinion. You made a mistake and a misjudgement about jean michel. Accept it and go on with it