Calderano Signs with Joola (#139)

[NextLevel]

They are prototypes yes, they are custom made in the sense that the blades don't exist in the market yet and aren't being mass produced.

Matt, I have to ask, are US people really sure you know what your OEMs in Asia are up to and the ins and outs of how the blade process works? It seems based on zeio's posts that there are all these custom pro blades all over the place being used by players posting pics on Asian forums and you are claiming that there is no customization. Maybe the local Joolas in Asia are pushing the model that really makes money and you should be joining them by having more custom pro blade models out there and making money in the "I want a pro blade" market.

Thinking out loud for a second, ignore me if I don't make any sense.

 

[Matt Hetherington]

Would it be safe to assume that:

1) many, if not most of those blades will never reach mass production for a variety of possible reasons?
2) if a pro particularly liked a prototype they were given to test, they could continue having that blade made for them even if it never reaches mass production?

Generally if a player is testing a blade it's often for a company that is intending to make a signature blade for them, there are definitely plenty of blades that don't make it to mass production. 2 is possible but usually that may only occur if a player decided they liked something else after mass production, it's not so common. Also for Joola there were fewer instances of player blades being made with names usually just due to the turnover of players and the time it takes to go through the testing process etc. With Zhou Qihao it took a year after he signed the contract for us to finally get the blade that he liked and was ready to use, he was very particular about it.

 

[Matt Hetherington]

Matt, I have to ask, are US people really sure you know what your OEMs in Asia are up to and the ins and outs of how the blade process works? It seems based on zeio's posts that there are all these custom pro blades all over the place being used by players posting pics on Asian forums and you are claiming that there is no customization. Maybe the local Joolas in Asia are pushing the model that really makes money and you should be joining them by having more custom pro blade models out there and making money in the "I want a pro blade" market.

Thinking out loud for a second, ignore me if I don't make any sense.

As I said whatever was done with these blades previously was done by Joola Xiamen which was a distributor. It was shut down fairly promptly once we found out. Now China's table tennis operations will be fun by a subsidiary, so it's our own offices and staff - that way we can control what is happening in the markets etc.
Also to my knowledge we never sponsored a player from Hong Kong directly from the Joola brand.

Technically any product Xiamen produced was meant to be licensed and approved by us, these Tezzo Warrior blades with 'Pro' printed on the side were not sanctioned. Also the Tezzo blades were already in the 90-94 gram weight range in a lot of instances, so that in itself is not custom at all.

 

[Matt Hetherington]

I think a lack of cooperation or alignment between the different regions is likely based on posts here and other things I've heard from people who seem to know what they are talking about. Definitely speculating, but one wonders if other regions grew tired of Joola USA going all in on pickleball and decided to take the wheel themselves.

Also wonder if the Hugo signing was the idea of the TT department, or the same people guiding pickleball who clearly seem to believe in big sponsorship signings and then releasing namesake product lines (Johns, Agassi, Graf, who else?). Are they truly back in on TT or is this one last go at it before ditching TT forever?

Not the case because all of the other regions have also been more focused on pickleball as well, with the exception of Europe which is still guiding a lot of table tennis. Now that the infrastructure for pickleball is established globally and they have a firm foothold on the ground in the more important markets, they are returning their focus to the table tennis business. The Hugo signing is the start of an investment back into table tennis, rather than a 'last shot' at making it work.

 

[zeio]

A long video from 2024 by Bilibili influencer Fat Tiger (as mentioned in the Facebook post above) on the development/improvement of Tezzo Warrior Pro and the back-and-forth with Joola Xiamen (the old one rather than the new one Joola Shenzhen). The issue of handle piece(s) coming off was actually addressed after he gave them feedback.

近台无敌，中台穿人!角斗士pro为何能强压新vis？【肥老虎科普064】
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1tx4y1s7ZR

 

[Matt Hetherington]

Interesting, I was aware of many brands having some equivalent of Butterfly's advisory staff where they seek pro opinions on products before going to production, even if it isn't a signature blade for that pro in specific. Maybe not necessarily the most world class players who are actively competing since they don't want to mess with equipment too much generally, but I guess that depends and maybe Joola does it a little different.

Speaking of turnover of players, are you allowed to say how long Hugo is signed for?

Funnily enough I haven't seen the contract, so I don't know for sure, but I think it's at least to LA 2028, I can't imagine Joola would make an investment like that for shorter term.

 

[Matt Hetherington]

A long video from 2024 by Bilibili influencer Fat Tiger (as mentioned in the Facebook post above) on the development/improvement of Tezzo Warrior Pro and the back-and-forth with Joola Xiamen (the old one rather than the new one Joola Shenzhen). The issue of handle piece(s) coming off was actually addressed after he gave them feedback.

近台无敌，中台穿人!角斗士pro为何能强压新vis？【肥老虎科普064】
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1tx4y1s7ZR

False. I'm the one who addressed the handle falling off the blades lol

 

[Matt Hetherington]

A long video from 2024 by Bilibili influencer Fat Tiger (as mentioned in the Facebook post above) on the development/improvement of Tezzo Warrior Pro and the back-and-forth with Joola Xiamen (the old one rather than the new one Joola Shenzhen). The issue of handle piece(s) coming off was actually addressed after he gave them feedback.

近台无敌，中台穿人!角斗士pro为何能强压新vis？【肥老虎科普064】
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1tx4y1s7ZR

Anyway the main point is Xiamen operated outside of their authorization to develop Tezzo Warrior Pro, which was mass produced and sold to the market in limited quantities anyway.

 

[zeio]

I think a lack of cooperation or alignment between the different regions is likely based on posts here and other things I've heard from people who seem to know what they are talking about. Definitely speculating, but one wonders if other regions grew tired of Joola USA going all in on pickleball and decided to take the wheel themselves.

Also wonder if the Hugo signing was the idea of the TT department, or the same people guiding pickleball who clearly seem to believe in big sponsorship signings and then releasing namesake product lines (Johns, Agassi, Graf, who else?). Are they truly back in on TT or is this one last go at it before ditching TT forever?

Adidas signed Feng Tianwei and Li Jiao and paid them dearly and yet FTW never really used their blades, especially when it mattered. We know how it ended.

 

[zeio]

False. I'm the one who addressed the handle falling off the blades lol

Is it possible more than one person was involved if Joola Xiamen was working outside of authorization?

 

[NextLevel]

Is it possible more than one person was involved if Joola Xiamen was working outside of authorization?

Is it possible that multiple people complain about a product defect and it takes someone who is employed by the corporation to drive the internal change? Asking for a friend...

 

[JackJohnson]

Does Joola have other subsidiaries other than Joola Shenzhen. Why have a subsidiary when you can produce and make goods under the parent company Joola?

 

[zeio]

Is it possible that multiple people complain about a product defect and it takes someone who is employed by the corporation to drive the internal change? Asking for a friend...

Is it possible like ThePongCommenter suggested that Joola Xiamen took things into their own hands when the parent company had failed to provide them with proper support. They have to recuperate their investment. It's not like they didn't pay for the license/rights to distribution. Did they source from the same manufacturer for their blades?

And it looks like legal action against Joola Xiamen was taken back in 2024. And it looks like Joola Shenzhen was incorporated in 2022, so there were two Joola China at some point?

 

[NextLevel]

Is it possible like ThePongCommenter suggested that Joola Xiamen took things into their own hands when the parent company had failed to provide them with proper support. They have to recuperate their investment. It's not like they didn't pay for the license/rights to distribution. Did they source from the same manufacturer for their blades?

And it looks like legal action against Joola Xiamen was taken back in 2024. And it looks like Joola Shenzhen was incorporated in 2022, so there were two Joola China at some point?

I'm speaking about the specific case of who handled the handle issue, pun intended. You are free to discuss something else.

That said, now I think about it, your point, without the tangent about support, is reasonable, maybe the infliuencer addressed with a rogue Joola while Matt addressed with a regular Joola lol.

 

[zeio]

Does Joola have other subsidiaries other than Joola Shenzhen. Why have a subsidiary when you can produce and make goods under the parent company Joola?

That's normal practice when you need to manage huge regions. 株式会社タマス/Tamasu Co. Ltd. (Butterfly Japan for simplicity) has 4 suboffices - Tamasu Butterfly Europe (TBE) (Europe and Africa, IIRC also West/Central Asia), Tamasu Butterfly China (TBC), Tamasu Butterfly Korea (TBK), Tamasu Butterfly Thailand (TBT) (Southeast Asia). All of them source most of their stuff from Butterfly Japan.

 

[zeio]

I'm speaking about the specific case of who handled the handle issue, pun intended. You are free to discuss something else.

That said, now I think about it, your point, without the tangent about support, is reasonable, maybe the infliuencer addressed with a rogue Joola while Matt addressed with a regular Joola lol.

Look, Joola has a history of mismanagement when it was a German company. Now that the brand became a US company in 2019, evidence suggests they want to put their house in order, and focused on pickleball first while putting table tennis on the back burner and leaving the Chinese business alone until the end of the contract period. But in order to do so, they have to come clean first.

 

[NextLevel]

Look, Joola has a history of mismanagement when it was a German company. Now that the brand became a US company in 2019, evidence suggests they want to put their house in order, and focused on pickleball first while putting table tennis on the back burner and leaving the Chinese business alone until the end of the contract period. But in order to do so, they have to come clean first.

Ah okay, you have an article to refer to that summarizes your position? Something I can use to understand the foundation? Or just too many Tieba posts that give an impression? And who has to come clean about what?

 

[zeio]

They are prototypes yes, they are custom made in the sense that the blades don't exist in the market yet and aren't being mass produced.

And will the mass-produced model(s) also come with the same engineering tolerance, like weight as you indicated?

 

[Matt Hetherington]

And will the mass-produced model(s) also come with the same engineering tolerance, like weight as you indicated?

As I said much further back in the thread, pro players tend to prefer heavier blades whereas the general market are more comfortable in the 83-87 gram range.

 

[Matt Hetherington]

Does Joola have other subsidiaries other than Joola Shenzhen. Why have a subsidiary when you can produce and make goods under the parent company Joola?

Subsidiary (Joola Shenzhen) is an extension of the parent company, whereas Xiamen was a privately owned distributor with rights to sell Joola in China.