Calderano Signs with Joola (#139)

[AchyGeorge]

Re “custom” xylo 7… apparently these are typically 87g.
Let’s say for the sake of example about 2/3rds of the ones made are between 85 and 89g. 9/10ths might between be between 83 and 91g, leaving say 1/20th lighter than 83g and 1/20th heavier than 91g. Made up numbers!
Hugo probably asked for a couple at say 92g+. …. Not custom per se just rare unicorns, If I as an amateur wanted one of that kind of weight, well good luck to me finding one, Hugo however has Matt to do the finding…. So I think carefully selected rather than custom.
Am I anywhere near the truth Matt?

 

[piligrim]

How much will cost Hugo personal Xylo 7?

 

[Matt Hetherington]

Re “custom” xylo 7… apparently these are typically 87g.
Let’s say for the sake of example about 2/3rds of the ones made are between 85 and 89g. 9/10ths might between be between 83 and 91g, leaving say 1/20th lighter than 83g and 1/20th heavier than 91g. Made up numbers!
Hugo probably asked for a couple at say 92g+. …. Not custom per se just rare unicorns, If I as an amateur wanted one of that kind of weight, well good luck to me finding one, Hugo however has Matt to do the finding…. So I think carefully selected rather than custom.
Am I anywhere near the truth Matt?

Nope, there are basically none left it was a matter of sending whatever could be scrambled together when Hugo said he wanted to use it for Star Contender. I’m going to add this just one more time here just incase…it’s a normal commercial Xylo 7, there is nothing custom about it 💀😂

 

[Matt Hetherington]

How much will cost Hugo personal Xylo 7?

The odds of him using an allwood 7 ply in the long run aren’t so high I would say. I imagine he tried a number of blades and ended up indecisive and losing a bit of confidence, so he opted for stability and safety in the moment.

 

[v100ev]

Maybe Joola could.. un-discontinue the Xylo 7 now? 😅

 

[Matt Hetherington]

Maybe Joola could.. un-discontinue the Xylo 7 now? 😅

I doubt it, as I said I think it was just a temporary thing - the problem with the event calendar is that there isn’t much time to spend figuring different equipment decisions out honestly.

 

[biaxialerzug]

Honestly I don‘t understand what is happening. Sure, he’s now sponsored by Joola but why not gluing some standard black handles without any logo onto his old blade, promote it as a prototype and sell the future „Joola will build the same blade if Hugo wants“ as his new signature blade with the old structure.
Now you have all the discussion and if Hugo loose a game there will always be people saying „it’s because of Joola.“ I watched the game against Dima and the chat on YouTube during the game was full of Joola bashing.
Anyway, bad publicity is better than no publicity.
The only reason might be Joola says no or Hugo said I want to try Joola blades.

 

[Matt Hetherington]

Honestly I don‘t understand what is happening. Sure, he’s now sponsored by Joola but why not gluing some standard black handles without any logo onto his old blade, promote it as a prototype and sell the future „Joola will build the same blade if Hugo wants“ as his new signature blade with the old structure.
Now you have all the discussion and if Hugo loose a game there will always be people saying „it’s because of Joola.“ I watched the game against Dima and the chat on YouTube during the game was full of Joola bashing.
Anyway, bad publicity is better than no publicity.
The only reason might be Joola says no or Hugo said I want to try Joola blades.

Respectfully it’s up to Hugo what he wants to do, so we just have to be patient while he tries different things. People were very quick to blame Joola for sure, and Hugo has been trying different blades already before beginning with Joola, so it’s not new territory. Anyway hopefully when he settles and makes a decision things will stabilize more.

 

[SilvestriDaVini]

I think this thread and the yt viewers are more worried about this than Hugo himself lol. If Hugo chose to test a bunch of options, he accepted the fact that he will struggle to adapt at the start of the season.

But in the long run, it will allow him to find the best setup, so let’s just be patient as Matt pointed out.

 

[ajtatosmano2]

I know a player who was sponsored, he got a few blades from the local rep. for tryout, choose one and that's it. They were from the same batch as commercials.
Another person sources/ have sourced (idk if still) rubbers through JNT because they felt much-much better than the retail ones.
I guess it really depends on the brand, but I suspect ESN doesn't make special versions from their rubbers.
As we see FZD switches rubbers on a whim, I don't see why wouldn't someone believe that Hugo does the same with a blade. No need for conspiracies.

 

[banbekas]

My personal opinion about this whole idea of “custom” equipment for professionals is that it’s mostly a myth whispered among enthusiasts to create artificial scarcity and drive up profits.

The pros receive the same production batches as the rest of us. Their equipment is not specially made from scratch. For example, blades like the W968 are produced in batches, and players such as ML simply test several pieces and choose the one they like most. The manufacturer may then attempt to recreate a similar version to match the player’s preferences, but wood is still wood, and no two blades will ever feel exactly the same.


A good example of this is WCQ’s incident in Paris. He couldn't even loop properly despite the equipment is supposedly tailor-made for him.

And then we have suckers who get Ma Long's personal rubber, personal blade, etc. It should be clear enough that FZD can even play just as well with 09c on his forehand.

 

[Doralikesmath]

I don’t doubt that plenty of pros use off-the-shelf equipment, but it’s also pretty clear that some top players use custom stuff and they’ve even said so themselves. Zhang Jike, for example, mentioned that the D09C he used is much harder than the version us mortals can buy. 10+ years ago, blue sponge Hurricane 3 wasn’t available to the public, even to the top non-CNT pros. Timo Boll wasn’t exactly happy about it, quoted from someone who is very active in this thread.

Honestly, if I were a top 10 pro, I’d be pretty upset if my sponsor refused to make me a custom blade just because it wouldn’t sell well to the mass market.

 

[Peter93]

My personal opinion about this whole idea of “custom” equipment for professionals is that it’s mostly a myth whispered among enthusiasts to create artificial scarcity and drive up profits.

The pros receive the same production batches as the rest of us. Their equipment is not specially made from scratch. For example, blades like the W968 are produced in batches, and players such as ML simply test several pieces and choose the one they like most. The manufacturer may then attempt to recreate a similar version to match the player’s preferences, but wood is still wood, and no two blades will ever feel exactly the same.


A good example of this is WCQ’s incident in Paris. He couldn't even loop properly despite the equipment is supposedly tailor-made for him.

And then we have suckers who get Ma Long's personal rubber, personal blade, etc. It should be clear enough that FZD can even play just as well with 09c on his forehand.

This is not true and has never been true and I have no idea where you got this idea because it's easily proven false. Wang Hao was using Sriver with a Bryce sponge over 20 years ago. Kunihito Tasei (now former JNT men's head coach) spoke to World Table Tennis magazine about how Butterfly made him a custom Raystorm with Bryce sponge after Spinpips was banned. The Kong Linghui Special that Kong used before he retired had an asymmetrical design that was never available to the public. I could name 100 other examples, but there's no need to belabor the point.

Butterfly and Nittaku both let you design custom blades for yourself if you are willing to pay. Do you think the pros don't leverage that?

 

[golden_son]

Respectfully it’s up to Hugo what he wants to do, so we just have to be patient while he tries different things. People were very quick to blame Joola for sure, and Hugo has been trying different blades already before beginning with Joola, so it’s not new territory. Anyway hopefully when he settles and makes a decision things will stabilize more.

Could Hugo be a secret EJ like the not-so-secret rest of us? 😱

My personal opinion about this whole idea of “custom” equipment for professionals is that it’s mostly a myth whispered among enthusiasts to create artificial scarcity and drive up profits.

Except...why? Enthusiasts don't benefit from artificial scarcity and higher equipment prices - only the brands do 😐

 

[banbekas]

I don’t doubt that plenty of pros use off-the-shelf equipment, but it’s also pretty clear that some top players use custom stuff and they’ve even said so themselves. Zhang Jike, for example, mentioned that the D09C he used is much harder than the version us mortals can buy. 10+ years ago, blue sponge Hurricane 3 wasn’t available to the public, even to the top non-CNT pros. Timo Boll wasn’t exactly happy about it, quoted from someone who is very active in this thread.

Honestly, if I were a top 10 pro, I’d be pretty upset if my sponsor refused to make me a custom blade just because it wouldn’t sell well to the mass market.

Zhang Jike's D09C being harder doesn't mean he got a specially made D09C from Butterfly. Most likely that he was given a selected piece from mass-produced D09C.

IIRC, Timo once uploaded a video where he measured the weight of each rubber individually and mentioned that they were all off-the-shelf, commercially available products. He just picked the ones with the weight he felt most comfortable with.

Blue sponge? I doubt it's any different than that of orange sponge. Glayzer is pretty much D05 with slightly softer and different color sponge. As I have said before in the Spinsight thread, the amount of rotation you can generate comes from your technique. FZD will always produce the same shot quality even if he uses D09C.

This is not true and has never been true and I have no idea where you got this idea because it's easily proven false. Wang Hao was using Sriver with a Bryce sponge over 20 years ago. Kunihito Tasei (now former JNT men's head coach) spoke to World Table Tennis magazine about how Butterfly made him a custom Raystorm with Bryce sponge after Spinpips was banned. The Kong Linghui Special that Kong used before he retired had an asymmetrical design that was never available to the public. I could name 100 other examples, but there's no need to belabor the point.

Butterfly and Nittaku both let you design custom blades for yourself if you are willing to pay. Do you think the pros don't leverage that?

Your idea of specially made is topsheet with different sponge? Was Wang Hao’s topsheet actually custom-made for him, or was it simply selected from mass production? The same question applies to the asymmetrical design of KLS Special, a variation of the mass produced KLS that KL picked up and liked the feel.

So what kind of “custom blades” were actually designed for players who were willing to pay? A different handle shape? A logo placement? That hardly qualifies as true customization.

Except...why? Enthusiasts don't benefit from artificial scarcity and higher equipment prices - only the brands do 😐

Who sold Ma Long's Star Rubber etc? Enthusiasts, shop owners.

I'm waiting for people to say that LYJ is using a Viscaria super ALC specially made for him. 2.8mm Zyre thickness. We have MH who keeps saying Hugo is using the same stuff as we do, but somehow you people know better. lol.

 

[golden_son]

Zhang Jike's D09C being harder doesn't mean he got a specially made D09C from Butterfly. Most likely that he was given a selected piece from mass-produced D09C.

IIRC, Timo once uploaded a video where he measured the weight of each rubber individually and mentioned that they were all off-the-shelf, commercially available products. He just picked the ones with the weight he felt most comfortable with.

Blue sponge? I doubt it's any different than that of orange sponge. Glayzer is pretty much D05 with slightly softer and different color sponge. As I have said before in the Spinsight thread, the amount of rotation you can generate comes from your technique. FZD will always produce the same shot quality even if he uses D09C.


Your idea of specially made is topsheet with different sponge? Was Wang Hao’s topsheet actually custom-made for him, or was it simply selected from mass production? The same question applies to the asymmetrical design of KLS Special, a variation of the mass produced KLS that KL picked up and liked the feel.

So what kind of “custom blades” were actually designed for players who were willing to pay? A different handle shape? A logo placement? That hardly qualifies as true customization.


Who sold Ma Long's Star Rubber etc? Enthusiasts, shop owners.

I'm waiting for people to say that LYJ is using a Viscaria super ALC specially made for him. 2.8mm Zyre thickness. We have MH who keeps saying Hugo is using the same stuff as we do, but somehow you people know better. lol.

Shop owners, I could see. I'm sure the prott guy blows his nose with the cash he makes from player blades and rubbers. Even if they're real there's no way he's paying exorbitant prices for them to resell. But it's not like there's a healthy secondary market of enthusiasts reselling fabled stuff to get any benefit from arguing in a niche forum or two about the legitimacy of special player equipment. If anything the "black tag Viscaria" thing is more enthusiast-driven; there's always a handful on eBay with stupid prices.

For the record, I believe what Matt's saying here. It makes far more sense than conspiracy theories. He's already confirmed that 1) prototypes are a thing* and 2) Joola can work with Hugo to make whatever he wants if he's not happy with an existing product. We can debate whether they would ever produce something with a unique composition for him and not mass-produce it, but this also makes far less sense than just mass-producing the same blade and marking it up if it uses costlier materials, because people will pay it if Hugo's name is attached. But I suppose conspiracy theorizing is...fun?

*As an enthusiast, I would be more likely to pay for a used prototype than something supposedly from a batch "made to a player's specifications" but never actually used. It would be an actual collector's item, like a game ball or a jersey.

 

[NextLevel]

I'm waiting for people to say that LYJ is using a Viscaria super ALC specially made for him. 2.8mm Zyre thickness. We have MH who keeps saying Hugo is using the same stuff as we do, but somehow you people know better. lol.

You may not have read that Joola needs to come clean...

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Zhang Jike's D09C being harder doesn't mean he got a specially made D09C from Butterfly. Most likely that he was given a selected piece from mass-produced D09C.

Just curious how you think this works - someone at Butterfly goes and measures each individual piece from a batch of thousands to identify the few anomalies that meets the players standard and sets them off to the side? Then, for fun and just to troll the conspiracy theorists, prints a separate packaging with the word "Special thickness (tokuatsu)" on the package label like the one seen here?

Seems pretty time consuming and inefficient, especially when some players have a preference for 5+ degrees harder than commercial which you probably aren't even going to find one anomaly of in a batch.

Or do you think maybe just maybe Butterfly can tweak the recipe and produce a batch that meets the spec and sends it to the players rather than weighing and hardness-testing every single square?

IIRC, Timo once uploaded a video where he measured the weight of each rubber individually and mentioned that they were all off-the-shelf, commercially available products. He just picked the ones with the weight he felt most comfortable with.

And someone who has trained with Ovtcharov and was gifted his rubbers said it came in the package like the one linked above and was noticeably harder and therefore better with booster.

Some pros choose to use their custom pieces, some don't.

 

[joshmak10]

Okay let’s just settle this once and for all. Custom made blades and rubbers exists. Some pros decide to use it. Some don’t. Oh well. So be it. Continuing to deny it doesn’t help anyone given the evidence is so clearly there.

Now enough about this topic.

 

[zeio]

Some pros choose to use their custom pieces, some don't.

The message still doesn't get across.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/calderano-signs-with-joola-139.38480/post-558522
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/calderano-signs-with-joola-139.38480/post-558815