Thread about Japanese Players

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

The 2 best buddies might need to fight each other in the final 😰

 

[zeio]

You havw chosen the idea things that are complicated are black and white as you usually do tonsatgisfy your own ego. Again, players have various approaches to league play partly because league play is often a substantial source of income for them and is often much more than what they earn playing on tour. Taking the approach that one is taken seriously and rhe other less so is the kind of thing that only someone who thinks everyone should be like him would continue to push because there is no nuance in such thinking. A friend of mine who used tobplay in the Polish and German leagues said that the pressure to win when he had bad seasons often left him depressed. You will continue to embarrass yourself by pushing this narrative that when Togami beats someone in TTBL, it doesn't matter but when he loses to them on tour it does.

People try ot new things in tournaments as well so this attitude that that only happens in the league is ridiculous, there is risk and reward evaluation that goes into trying out new things in TT.

Still resisting. Go tell that to Harimoto who took it to his Instagram, blasting how he's had enough of the stupid rules of T.League that are pushing foreign players away and eating away at the ultimate goal of winning overseas for some league players and Matsushima who even said T.League is absolutely no fun and hardly anyone plays that even Hirano mimicked him.

なぜ張本智和はTリーグへの本音を激白したのか　年齢重ね迷いなく発信「僕は僕の信念だけを信じます」
https://the-ans.jp/news/564918/
卓球・張本智和が異例の表明「選手に配慮があるリーグであってほしい」“独自ルール問題”最大の論点とは？ SNSの言葉に表れた“いら立ち”の背景
https://number.bunshun.jp/articles/-/866762?page=1

 

[NextLevel]

Someone posted on X that Hirano, who made the finals in Chennai, was not able to make it back in time for the WTTTC trial and had to cancel.

Hmm....that is interesting....

Still resisting. Go tell that to Harimoto who took it to his Instagram, blasting how he's had enough of the stupid rules of T.League that are pushing foreign players away and eating away at the ultimate goal of winning overseas for some league players and Matsushima who even said T.League is absolutely no fun and hardly anyone plays that even Hirano mimicked him.

なぜ張本智和はTリーグへの本音を激白したのか　年齢重ね迷いなく発信「僕は僕の信念だけを信じます」
https://the-ans.jp/news/564918/
卓球・張本智和が異例の表明「選手に配慮があるリーグであってほしい」“独自ルール問題”最大の論点とは？ SNSの言葉に表れた“いら立ち”の背景
https://number.bunshun.jp/articles/-/866762?page=1

Harimoto would not have complained had he not cared about his league results. Neither would Sora. In any case, your lack of nuance in interpreting these statements is obvious. The original context was to argue that Miu (a league MVP in some years) could lose to Yokoi in league and beat her in Chennai because league play doesn't matter. Now it has become "Players make statements about how they feel about Chinese Superleague and T-League and therefore the results don't matter." Anything to win an argument I guess. And of course, players like Shinozuka and Togami travelling to Europe to play are not taking their losses to players like Jorgic or their wins over players like Jha seriously. And Mizutani never cared about taking Champions League play seriously either. And Fan went all the way to Germany just to have fun.

As someone who has spoken to players who played in leagues and who made significant parts of their income from them (which may not apply to the Chinese or Japanese players you are focused on), the pressures are different, some players prefer the pressures of one setting to another and vice versa, but no one wants to be the guy the team cannot rely on when they are being paid to win matches.

 

[zeio]

Maybe things are different in CTTSL as I don't follow it, but they absolutely do care about the results in T-League. They've edited it out for online distribution, but I recall watching the livestream when Miu Hirano lost to Mikuu Izumo, the camera panned to ZYL consoling Hirano who was crying. I'm quite sure she took the match seriously.

You still don't get it.

As Harimoto wrote in his Instagram post, players who focus on WTT and those who don't play with all their might in T.League to make a living but some, particularly top overseas players, have reached the point to call it quits as players still get depressed when they lose no matter how weird the rules are, even if they know deep down it shouldn't be the case [they know they couldn't care less but it still hurts]. Harimoto even claimed "the league has no future." While he understands the importance of entertaining the fans, at the same time he wants the league to be just as considerate to the players and he just wants to play normal matches.

Give the full transcript a read.

【卓球】「そろそろ限界です」張本智和がＴリーグ独自ルールに私見「普通の試合がしたい」／全文
https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202508040000405.html
https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202508040000405.html?Page=2
https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202508040000405.html?Page=3

Tリーグルールでたまにトップ選手に勝つ

↓

ということはWTTでも勝てると思ってWTTに出る

↓

普通の外国選手に負ける

↓

日本に帰ってきてTリーグでまたたまにトップ選手に勝つ

↓

じゃあ別に良いかと思ってWTTで負けたことを忘れる

Tリーグでトップ選手に勝つことに満足して、

それ以上の努力をしなくなっている。

海外で勝つための努力をしなくなっている。

僕たちがしてきたような血の滲むような練習をして海外で勝つ、

そしてそこから世界ランキングを上げる。

という感覚を今のTリーグルールは潰していると思います。

もしかしたらTリーグルールが本当に苦しめているのは

トップ選手たちではなく、他の選手たちなのかもしれません。

(Occasionally beat top players under T.League rules

↓

So they enter the WTT thinking they can win there too

↓

Losing to average foreign players

↓

Returning to Japan, they occasionally beat top players in the T-League

↓

Then they think it's okay and forget about the WTT loss

Satisfied with beating the top players in the T League,

they no longer make any effort beyond that.

They are no longer making an effort to win overseas.

By practicing hard like we have done, you can win overseas,

and from there, you can move up the world rankings.

I think the current T.League rules are killing this feeling.

Perhaps the T.League rules are really hurting

not the top players, but the other players.)

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

You still don't get it.

As Harimoto wrote in his Instagram post, players who focus on WTT and those who don't play with all their might in T.League to make a living but some, particularly top overseas players, have reached the point to call it quits as players still get depressed when they lose no matter how weird the rules are, even if they know deep down it shouldn't be the case [they know they couldn't care less but it still hurts]. Harimoto even claimed "the league has no future." While he understands the importance of entertaining the fans, at the same time he wants the league to be just as considerate to the players and he just wants to play normal matches.

Give the full transcript a read.

【卓球】「そろそろ限界です」張本智和がＴリーグ独自ルールに私見「普通の試合がしたい」／全文
https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202508040000405.html
https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202508040000405.html?Page=2
https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/202508040000405.html?Page=3

(Occasionally beat top players under T.League rules

↓

So they enter the WTT thinking they can win there too

↓

Losing to average foreign players

↓

Returning to Japan, they occasionally beat top players in the T-League

↓

Then they think it's okay and forget about the WTT loss

Satisfied with beating the top players in the T League,

they no longer make any effort beyond that.

They are no longer making an effort to win overseas.

By practicing hard like we have done, you can win overseas,

and from there, you can move up the world rankings.

I think the current T.League rules are killing this feeling.

Perhaps the T.League rules are really hurting

not the top players, but the other players.)

Tomo is entitled to his opinion. But T-League is not the only league that has rules like next point wins when it's 10-10. MLTT calls this the Golden Point. I can't imagine how Tomo would react if he had to play the Golden Game. And Tomo has something on the order of 90% win rate in T-League. I don't watch CTTSL so I don't know for sure, but I'm assuming the top players don't have perfect records (?). Like I said, Tomo is entitled to his opinion but it sounds like sour grapes to me.

But in any case, the point is that he does take it seriously. If he didn't, he wouldn't publicly complain when he loses. And players who make a living playing in leagues instead of WTT for sure take it seriously to varying degrees as well. Every player wants to win not only for themselves, but also for their teammates, staff, employers and for financial incentives as well.

 

[NextLevel]

Tomo is entitled to his opinion. But T-League is not the only league that has rules like next point wins when it's 10-10. MLTT calls this the Golden Point. I can't imagine how Tomo would react if he had to play the Golden Game. And Tomo has something on the order of 90% win rate in T-League. I don't watch CTTSL so I don't know for sure, but I'm assuming the top players don't have perfect records (?). Like I said, Tomo is entitled to his opinion but it sounds like sour grapes to me.

But in any case, the point is that he does take it seriously. If he didn't, he wouldn't publicly complain when he loses. And players who make a living playing in leagues instead of WTT for sure take it seriously to varying degrees as well. Every player wants to win not only for themselves, but also for their teammates, staff, employers and for financial incentives as well.

Golden point was also a feature of the Russian league where Dima and Mizutani were for a while before the War made it taboo to play in Russia and Belarus. Obviously, it can tilt the result of a close match in favor of the worse player so a better player will not like it. Water is wet.

 

[TampaBayTableTennis]

Golden point was also a feature of the Russian league where Dima and Mizutani were for a while before the War made it taboo to play in Russia and Belarus. Obviously, it can tilt the result of a close match in favor of the worse player so a better player will not like it. Water is wet.

just a clarification, Scientific consensus generally holds that water is not wet, but rather the agent that makes other materials wet. "Wetness" is defined as a liquid's ability to adhere to a solid surface. Because water molecules hold together (cohesion) rather than adhering to themselves in the same way, water is considered a substance that causes wetness rather than being wet itself.

edited to add: one of my fav memes, lol'd at the wow face, and omg i got 1% top commenter status, i need to get off the computer and start practicing

 

[NextLevel]

just a clarification, Scientific consensus generally holds that water is not wet, but rather the agent that makes other materials wet. "Wetness" is defined as a liquid's ability to adhere to a solid surface. Because water molecules hold together (cohesion) rather than adhering to themselves in the same way, water is considered a substance that causes wetness rather than being wet itself.

I stand corrected. In breaking news, water causes wetness...

 

[Catenaccio]

2026 World Table Tennis Championships London (Team Competition) Japan Men's and Women's National Team Qualifying Tournament

Men's Final
Yukiya Uda vs Ryusei Kawakami 3-0 (9,6,8)

Women's Final
Rin Mende vs Mao Takamori 3-0 (7,3,7)

 

[Janard]

Wow who is Rin Mende

 

[zeio]

Tomo is entitled to his opinion. But T-League is not the only league that has rules like next point wins when it's 10-10. MLTT calls this the Golden Point. I can't imagine how Tomo would react if he had to play the Golden Game. And Tomo has something on the order of 90% win rate in T-League. I don't watch CTTSL so I don't know for sure, but I'm assuming the top players don't have perfect records (?). Like I said, Tomo is entitled to his opinion but it sounds like sour grapes to me.

But in any case, the point is that he does take it seriously. If he didn't, he wouldn't publicly complain when he loses. And players who make a living playing in leagues instead of WTT for sure take it seriously to varying degrees as well. Every player wants to win not only for themselves, but also for their teammates, staff, employers and for financial incentives as well.

Man, even the editor of Table Tennis Kingdom, which covers European leagues as well, agrees with Harimoto, admitting that top foreign players are in decline with each passing year. Harimoto takes it seriously because it interferes with his WTT/international play as he laid out rather than the other way around (T.League is just a sizeable source of income, a side-job to support the main job), which is why he wrote that he knew he should not feel bad when losing but still does.

張本智和「その度に頑張って切り替えようとしてきましたが、そろそろ限界です」。Tリーグへの考えを示す
https://world-tt.com/blog/news/archives/288065

日本のエースとしてTリーグに貢献し、今季からは岡山リベッツに加入した張本。Tリーグのさらなる発展へ、という思いの発信だったのだろう。

確かにTリーグの独自ルールは世界のプロリーグの中でも異例なルールとなっている。しかも、リーグ創設当初からほぼ変わっていない。

日本のトップ選手たちはリーグと並行して、国際ツアーのWTTでもプレーしているため、「ルールの違い」に頭を悩ませている。

Tリーグのギャンブル性の高い（番狂わせを起こしやすい）独自ルール、もしくは試合時間短縮とも言えるルールには疑問を投げかける関係者は当初からいた。さらにこのルールのせいなのか、海外のトップ選手のTリーグへの参戦は年々減っているのが現状だ。

(Harimoto contributed to the T.League as Japan's ace player, and joined the Okayama Rivets this season. This was likely a message of his desire to further develop the T.League.

The T.League's unique rules are certainly unusual even among the world's professional leagues. Moreover, they have remained virtually unchanged since the league's inception.

Japan's top players also play on the international WTT tour in parallel with the league, and are troubled by the "differences in the rules."

From the start, there were those involved who questioned the T.League's unique rules, which are highly gambling-like (making upsets more likely), or the rules that could be seen as shortening the game time. Furthermore, perhaps because of these rules, the number of top international players participating in the T.League is currently declining year by year.)

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Wow who is Rin Mende

Rin Mende is Japan's top female junior not named Miwa. She won her first senior tournament recently, 2026 WTT Feeder Cappadocia. Relatively thin frame, but she relies on her beautiful technique and rapid, successive hits to her opponents weak spots to gain the advantage. I especially like her extremely effective BH loop down the line. Not too long ago, I watched her beat Miyu Nagasaki in T-League so although quite an upset to the casual observer, there is precedent. In any case, I'm excited to have a new player on the WTTTC team.

 

[Peter93]

Japan should just make Qiu the men's NT coach

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Shout out to Mao Takamori for having an amazing tournament despite the loss in the finals. Also a shout out to Saki Shibata who posted on X that she decided not to play this tournament due to scheduling and other circumstances. But she coached her young T-League teammate Mao all the way to the finals.

 

[zeio]

Japan should just make Qiu the men's NT coach

LOL. Just when Mizutani and Morizono congratulated Kishikawa for becoming the MT head coach in the first of 2-part episodes of Takkyu Japan last month.

【公式】日本男子の礎を築いた超豪華メンバーが一堂に集結！新春座談会SP 〜前半戦〜｜卓球ジャパン！1月24日
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9l15_aTkRI&list=PL7mDcpZ4nKGk1hqaH2p1VFZaM4KvdGgrs&index=5
【公式】伝説の黄金ペア水谷＆岸川がガチ対決！？岸川監督・森薗コーチそして水谷隼とともに熱い日本代表談義！新春座談会SP 〜完結編〜｜卓球ジャパン！1月31日
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRH-wQpwbTo&list=PL7mDcpZ4nKGk1hqaH2p1VFZaM4KvdGgrs&index=3

 

[NextLevel]

Rin Mende is Japan's top female junior not named Miwa. She won her first senior tournament recently, 2026 WTT Feeder Cappadocia. Relatively thin frame, but she relies on her beautiful technique and rapid, successive hits to her opponents weak spots to gain the advantage. I especially like her extremely effective BH loop down the line. Not too long ago, I watched her beat Miyu Nagasaki in T-League so although quite an upset to the casual observer, there is precedent. In any case, I'm excited to have a new player on the WTTTC team.

Nah, T-league matches are meaningless so there is no precedent, this is really a special transformation of Rin Mende beating a player like Nagasaki who made the Asian Cup Quarters. Nagasaki was just testing stuff in league and played for real this time.

 

[zeio]

Nah, T-league matches are meaningless so there is no precedent, this is really a special transformation of Rin Mende beating a player like Nagasaki who made the Asian Cup Quarters. Nagasaki was just testing stuff in league and played for real this time.

For someone who likes to mention "they are/were teammates" (e.g. here, here, here), I certainly expected that argument for Nagasaki (Abyell 2018-2021 -> Red Elf 2021-2022 -> Abyell 2022-) and Mende (Abyell 2021-2025 -> Red Elf 2025-) but guess what. Where were you hiding when Yokoi lost to Hirano and Odo beat Hirano at WTT SCT Chennai 2026? Why would someone tell me late last year that it was not just about one match or Hayata's results and yet would not do the same for Nagasaki or Kihara? Is that someone not capable of holding himself accountable but only others?

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/wtt-finals-hong-kong-2025-12-10-14.35838/post-555147

It's a competitive process. It's not just about one match or her results, the results of her teammates also matter. The match was ugly, but without knowing what the goals were and whether she was trying to implement something that didn't work, all we can do is watch the process. It's still over 2.5 years away.

T.League H2H
Yokoi 5-4 Hirano, first 3 for Hirano in 2021-2022 and 2022-2023, then 3 for Yokoi in 2023-2024, then 1 for Hirano in 2024-2025, then 2 for Yokoi in 2025-2026
Odo 0-3 Hirano, 1 for Hirano in 2021-2022, 1 for Hirano in 2022-2023, 1 for Hirano in 2024-2025
Nagasaki 0-1 Mende, 2025-2026

2025-2026
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=1142&lang=en

Miu Hirano
2 - 3
Sakura Yokoi

https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=1236&lang=en

Miu Hirano
0 - 3
Sakura Yokoi

2024-2025
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=818&lang=en

Sakura Yokoi
1 - 3
Miu Hirano

2023-2024
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=733&lang=en

Sakura Yokoi
3 - 1
Miu Hirano

https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=699&lang=en

Miu Hirano
0 - 3
Sakura Yokoi

https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=665&lang=en

Sakura Yokoi
3 - 1
Miu Hirano

2022-2023
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=565&lang=en

Sakura Yokoi
1 - 3
Miu Hirano

2021-2022
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=352&lang=en

Miu Hirano
3 - 0
Sakura Yokoi

https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=332&lang=en

Miu Hirano
3 - 1
Sakura Yokoi

2024-2025
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=833&lang=en

Miu Hirano
3 - 0
Satsuki Odo

2022-2023
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=594&lang=en

Miu Hirano
3 - 1
Satsuki Odo

2021-2022
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=402&lang=en

Miu Hirano
3 - 1
Satsuki Odo

2025-2026
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=1185&lang=en

Miyuu Nagasaki
2 - 3
Rin Mende

2023-2024
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=657&lang=en

Miyuu Nagasaki
Rin Mende
2 - 0
Honoka Hashimoto
Hitomi Sato

 

[NextLevel]

For someone who likes to mention "they are/were teammates" (e.g. here, here, here), I certainly expected that argument for Nagasaki (Abyell 2018-2021 -> Red Elf 2021-2022 -> Abyell 2022-) and Mende (Abyell 2021-2025 -> Red Elf 2025-) but guess what. Where were you hiding when Yokoi lost to Hirano and Odo beat Hirano at WTT SCT Chennai 2026? Why would someone tell me late last year that it was not just about one match or Hayata's results and yet would not do the same for Nagasaki or Kihara? Is that someone not capable of holding himself accountable but only others?

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/wtt-finals-hong-kong-2025-12-10-14.35838/post-555147


T.League H2H
Yokoi 5-4 Hirano, first 3 for Hirano in 2021-2022 and 2022-2023, then 3 for Yokoi in 2023-2024, then 1 for Hirano in 2024-2025, then 2 for Yokoi in 2025-2026
Odo 0-3 Hirano, 1 for Hirano in 2021-2022, 1 for Hirano in 2022-2023, 1 for Hirano in 2024-2025
Nagasaki 0-1 Mende, 2025-2026

2025-2026
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=1142&lang=en

https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=1236&lang=en

2024-2025
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=818&lang=en

2023-2024
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=733&lang=en

https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=699&lang=en

https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=665&lang=en

2022-2023
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=565&lang=en

2021-2022
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=352&lang=en

https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=332&lang=en


2024-2025
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=833&lang=en

2022-2023
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=594&lang=en

2021-2022
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=402&lang=en


2025-2026
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=1185&lang=en

2023-2024
https://tleague.jp/schedule/detail.php?id=657&lang=en

My prior posts sufficiently answered your questions, you have introduced nothing that wasn't already known. Even prior tournament results don't perfectly predict current tournament results.

 

[JackJohnson]

Shout out to Mao Takamori for having an amazing tournament despite the loss in the finals. Also a shout out to Saki Shibata who posted on X that she decided not to play this tournament due to scheduling and other circumstances. But she coached her young T-League teammate Mao all the way to the finals.

This is good stuff. She didn’t have to do that but she did that anyway. I know the usual coach would have been away at the Star Contender but doesn’t Nippon Paint have assistant coaches that they could use instead?

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

This is good stuff. She didn’t have to do that but she did that anyway. I know the usual coach would have been away at the Star Contender but doesn’t Nippon Paint have assistant coaches that they could use instead?

I'm not aware of the arrangements made by the NP Mallets Team. But as a fellow teammate and the most senior member of NP Mallets, there's a certain amount of trust and Saki is extremely knowledgable as she herself has recently beaten Miyuu Kihara who Mao faced in the quarterfinals. Saki has also faced off against Kaho Akae (1-1 H2H in WTT) who Mao faced in the SF. And Saki is also very good against choppers which proved quite useful when Mao faced chopper Yamamuro in the group stage.