Russian Players should not be on tour during the War.

[latej]

I'm honestly a bit baffled that the mods allow this thread to go on.

Nothing is likely to come out of it other than bad blood among board members.

Just a bit of healthy disagreement, it belongs to it... Incomparable to what the people there go through... At least we could discuss with them a bit... Cheers.

 

[tzifos]

Another view for the "politics and sports" : https://sports.yahoo.com/soccer/bre...ed-one-game-ban-for-usmnt-star-152628383.html

Even the UEFA (like ETTU for football) expressed disbelief at FIFA's decision, stating it undermines the integrity of the game and sets a concerning precedent.

I think that this is disgusting! What if Sidorenko won the US Smash and the President asked to give the title to the Sora? Thank god the Table tennis is not so popular as football!


edit:

What a joke!! FIFA 'Peace Prize' awarded to Trump!

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

There were indeed many attempts to secure peace. Agreements were even signed twice (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements). However, on both occasions, Russia violated the agreements and attacked Ukraine again. Even now, the President of Ukraine is proposing a halt to hostilities along the front line, yet Russia is once again refusing. Perhaps you see a way to stop the fighting? Please share your thoughts here.

First of all, wiki is not a source of truth
and even in this wiki article, it suggest violations on BOTH sides not just on the Russian

the fighting stops when there is not enough fighters or when both sides start to listening to each other sincerely. My 2c guess is after a while, seeing what the other camp was doing, Russia believed that this agreement would solve none of their long term problems ie. Ukraine turning into another NATO outpost in a couple years so they violated it.

of course the Ukrainian PoV is that Russia has no word and cannot be trusted and hence MUST be defended and was right all along seeking to enter NATO etc...

And when 2 sides don't trust each other then its what we have right now, a war that cannot end.

Yes i could see a way to stop the fighting. The opposite way that was chosen. EU, UK, US instead of supporting Ukraine militarily should have been clear that they would NOT support it anymore (= no money, no weapons, only diplomatic support), after all Ukraine was not part of EU and NATO, there was no legal or moral obligation to do so, and Ukraine would have been forced to compromise. Ukraine would perhaps have lost some territories, US would have to remove soldiers, bases and strategic interests, but 1+ million of young men would still be alive and millions wouldn't have fled the country. Ukraine would be a smaller and different country but much stronger and already starting to build its bright future.

I'm in the camp "a bad peace >> a good war"

The theory is that is being pushed to us is that Putin is a reverse-Hitler and would not stop after Ukraine but try to reach Berlin...Its only projection. If anything, recent history has shown its the US side which is difficult to trust.

anyway its my last political post, this is a TT forum.
I want to see Ukrainian and Russians playing TT together, not bombing each other.

 

[jkugin]

unfortunately its more complicated than that.

From the Russian PoV , Ukraine was supposed to be a buffer state (already a big loss from USSR days); not one hosting military bases to the benefit of hostile states which it had already started to become. They could not tolerate that there would be all kind of last generation missiles and weaponry pointed at them from Ukrainian territory and US fleet in Sebastopol in 5-10 years. It was a casus belli. Not to mention all the strategic resources that could be controlled in case of a successful campaign.

Ukraine is a sacrificial pawn in a big game of chess. The US/CIA fomented a coup in Ukraine, financed your current govt, raised the stakes and provoked Putin into the war. From the Russian PoV they are defending themselves just like the US is expected to defend itself if Russia had fomented a coup in Mexico.

Not saying Putin is a saint or a good guy. But he is acting rationally and I believe he is one who genuinely believes he is acting in his country own interest while it is rather obvious the Zelensky clique is just trying to cash in as many billions of USD as they can before the war is over (hence the need to make it last till the last Ukrainian standing) and they can all retire in places such like Monaco, Italy, Bahamas etc where they already have many 8-9 digits usd properties.

Not saying that its a "right" thing that smaller countries destiny is to be bullied or to be slaves of the bigger country. Its just the way the world has been for thousands of years. Cards are not being dealt equally.

What happened happened. So now what do belligerants want ? if both sides can't agree to an agreement that could be expected to last decades and not a couple years, then more grief.

As a EU citizen i don't support the official policy of supporting financially and militarily Ukraine, i believe it may lead to a more generalized conflict. I don't want my children to fight for your country. I don't believe it is our war. I believe our politicians didn't act for your true interests but for their own interest ie. virtue signaling (to win votes) + corruption taking a cut with money flowing back from Ukraine to their pockets and they don't care at all about young Ukrainian dying + making a power grab. I believe this war could have never happened and if we could stop this insanity and be all friends again, we would be a prosperous continent.

Instead Europe is falling into social and economic chaos, and now war, and from where i live in Asia, whereas 35 years ago i felt Asia was the 3rd world compared to Europe; now i feel exactly the opposite...and its becoming worse every year at an accelerating pace.

I urge you: please do not spread the brazen lies you likely encountered in Russian propaganda.

Let me try to answer using figures and my own perspective.

1. Before Russia’s attack in 2014, Ukraine had no intention of hosting military bases for NATO or other Western nations. Prior to the Russian aggression, the majority of the Ukrainian population did not view Russia as a threat at all. Here is a link to an article with poll results: https://www.rbc.ua/rus/news/podderzhka-vstupleniya-ukrainy-nato-es-vyrosla-1562766174.html. Again, I am speaking based on my own experience and that of the people around me. Before the 2014 attack on Ukraine, we were opposed to NATO; afterwards, we were entirely in favor of joining. Furthermore, Ukraine had signed a treaty with Russia allowing the Russian navy to remain in Crimea until 2042!!!! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Pact). It only terminated that agreement after the attack on and occupation of Crimea.

2. There was no coup in Ukraine. None whatsoever. Our parliament remained exactly as it was. By law, the president is required to sign bills passed by parliament. Yanukovych refused to sign, and then he was actually spirited away to Russia by the Russian military. Parliament passed a resolution declaring that the president had effectively abandoned his post and scheduled new elections. Where is the coup in that? Russia certainly wanted to stage a coup in Ukraine, but it failed to do so.

3. Zelenskyy is by no means a "good boy." However, regarding the claims about $8–9 million worth of overseas real estate—I find that highly unlikely. Journalists in Ukraine keep a very close watch on all of Zelenskyy’s associates, and I do not believe such transactions would have gone unnoticed by them. And the most interesting thing is that if Zelensky were removed, the opposition is actually even more aggressively anti-Russian and believes that negotiations are completely unfeasible.

4. What would happen if Europe stopped financial aid to Ukraine? I cannot predict it, but I can speculate. Ultimately, Ukraine would lose within a few years. More than a million additional people would perish in Russian concentration camps. There would be around 20 million refugees flooding into Europe. Russian troops—both mobilized forces and battle-hardened veterans—would be stationed along the borders of the Baltic states, Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, and Romania. Within three to four years, there would be a subsequent attack on the Baltic states or on Hungary and Slovakia, and a full-scale World War III involving nuclear strikes would begin.

 

[piligrim]

First of all, wiki is not a source of truth
and even in this wiki article, it suggest violations on BOTH sides not just on the Russian

the fighting stops when there is not enough fighters or when both sides start to listening to each other sincerely. My 2c guess is after a while, seeing what the other camp was doing, Russia believed that this agreement would solve none of their long term problems ie. Ukraine turning into another NATO outpost in a couple years so they violated it.

of course the Ukrainian PoV is that Russia has no word and cannot be trusted and hence MUST be defended and was right all along seeking to enter NATO etc...

And when 2 sides don't trust each other then its what we have right now, a war that cannot end.

Yes i could see a way to stop the fighting. The opposite way that was chosen. EU, UK, US instead of supporting Ukraine militarily should have been clear that they would NOT support it anymore (= no money, no weapons, only diplomatic support), after all Ukraine was not part of EU and NATO, there was no legal or moral obligation to do so, and Ukraine would have been forced to compromise. Ukraine would perhaps have lost some territories, US would have to remove soldiers, bases and strategic interests, but 1+ million of young men would still be alive and millions wouldn't have fled the country. Ukraine would be a smaller and different country but much stronger and already starting to build its bright future.

I'm in the camp "a bad peace >> a good war"

The theory is that is being pushed to us is that Putin is a reverse-Hitler and would not stop after Ukraine but try to reach Berlin...Its only projection. If anything, recent history has shown its the US side which is difficult to trust.

anyway its my last political post, this is a TT forum.
I want to see Ukrainian and Russians playing TT together, not bombing each other.

So Putin will get everything he wants.
You said you french. Will you willing give to Russia some French territories to get bad peace?

 

[jk1980]

NATO war against Russia? Its not Russia attacked Ukraine???? Russian soldiers not occupaed half of Ukraine? Russia didn't join Crimea? NATO did all this?

Sorry to hear that you fell for fhe msm propaganda. Research and investigate who shelled its own population in east ukraine years 5 years before russia intervened (even though the eastern regions begged russia to intervene for years).
Let's also not forget that Selensky did say he wanted to not oblige to the ruling that prohibited them to house nuclear war heads that would be able to reach moscow on fhe security conference in germany ...months before russia began its operation.

It's as if the canadian government decided to ban the french language, take away civilian rights and social services and start to bomb regions where then majority speaks french and if after years of begging france would intervene you would call it an unprovoked war agression.

Dude, better stick to what you have a clue on and dont parrot the propaganda the man on the TV told you

 

[piligrim]

Sorry to hear that you fell for fhe msm propaganda. Research and investigate who shelled its own population in east ukraine years 5 years before russia intervened (even though the eastern regions begged russia to intervene for years).
Let's also not forget that Selensky did say he wanted to not oblige to the ruling that prohibited them to house nuclear war heads that would be able to reach moscow on fhe security conference in germany ...months before russia began its operation.

It's as if the canadian government decided to ban the french language, take away civilian rights and social services and start to bomb regions where then majority speaks french and if after years of begging france would intervene you would call it an unprovoked war agression.

Dude, better stick to what you have a clue on and dont parrot the propaganda the man on the TV told you

You repeat after Russian TV. In your logic Russia has right to attack any country in a world where live russians and they not allowed to use russian language

 

[jk1980]

2. There was no coup in Ukraine. None whatsoever. Our parliament remained exactly as it was. By law, the president is required to sign bills passed by parliament. Yanukovych refused to sign, and then he was actually spirited away to Russia by the Russian military. Parliament passed a resolution declaring that the president had effectively abandoned his post and scheduled new elections. Where is the coup in that? Russia certainly wanted to stage a coup in Ukraine, but it failed to do so.

It's crazy that even with the planners of the coup (i.e.Victoria Newland) bragging about it and openly saying that they select who can get to power in 2014 you still don't believe it. Perhaps you just came back from your 14th covid booster because it's safe and effective🤣

George Soros' Money was well spent if i read this.

 

[Egon]

This is exactly the point. It's insane and I expected, @Egon or @jkugin would say that at least some Ukrainians see it that way.

If it weren’t for the courage of our guys and the fact that our people are ready to fight for their freedom and will despite the threat of death, Ukraine would actually become a sacrificial pawn.
After several years of propaganda, torture and murder of Ukrainian activists, millions of Ukrainians would join the russian army invading your peaceful European cities. And then someone else would be writing to you that the Czech Republic has become a sacrificial pawn on the geopolitical map of the world.
And now we have won our right not to be a sacrificial pawn, no matter how much you and the russians would like it.

 

[jkugin]

About the Minsk - it was said the Merkel herself said the Minsk was a charade, just to buy time... If this happens, and Russians see it this way (I mean the new "stop of hostilities", but in fact just buy time), it's not surprising they don't want to repeat the mistake again, esp. now, when they are winning or making advances...

I wish some oposition to Zelensky would be strong enough, and try to negotiate. But you says Russians would not accept, that sounds bad.

Thank you for your answer, it seems honest to me.

Finally, you noticed there was some tension between Poland and Ukraine because of Bandera. What's your view on that?

Thank you, too, for your understanding.

Regarding Merkel’s statement: I only read her interview in translation. As I recall, the gist of what she said was: we knew Putin wouldn't stop, but we signed that farce of an agreement to give Ukraine time to prepare for an attack.
I might have misunderstood, though. If I find it, I’ll read it again.

As for the opposition—it is actually the opposition that believes Russia needs to be dealt a heavy blow first, and only then should negotiations take place. Zelenskyy, on the other hand, has always been in favor of negotiations. But Putin refused; he simply issues ultimatums demanding capitulation and calls that "negotiations."

Regarding the tension between Ukraine and Poland over the heroes of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA): it is a huge tragedy. I don't understand why Poles blame only the UPA while forgetting about the killings of Ukrainians. Incidentally, Bandera was in a German concentration camp at the time. In my opinion, history should be left to historians. Eighty years have passed. If there are any surviving victims, Ukraine or Poland ought to pay compensation and offer an official apology. But this should happen within a legal framework and in a neutral court. Otherwise, this tension only plays into the hands of the war and Putin.

Personally, I don't consider politicians, military figures, or insurgents to be heroes. To me, heroes are the people who created things: writers, scientists, engineers, and doctors.

Thank you for reading such a long post.

 

[JackJohnson]

They were initially banned, the CAS overturned the ban because ETTU couldn't demonstrate that it had analyzed the risk of doing so and found the risks unmanageable. IT is just as important to note that the athletes could be banned from many of the leagues they play in.

I wonder if it was overturned due to the things USA have done recently.

 

[NextLevel]

I wonder if it was overturned due to the things USA have done recently.

Ultimately these are all political discussions. But the sport and the ability of the sport's body to defend itself against the arguments of the opposition matter. And table tennis could not show that there was a significant risk to accommodating Russian athletes while sports like football did. Sports can definitely be a scene for political theater and the ETTU was likely supporting the broader political environment at the start of the war and the whole AIN think probably advances Russian interests in some contexts (but definitely not without penalties or restrictions). But if players like Sidorenko are now playing in France, when the clubs are not forced to include them, obviously, what changed could not just have been the ruling.

BTW, I wonder where Grebnev is...

 

[JackJohnson]

according to this logic the World Cup
Should not even be held and all countries should boycott it.

Which country is still bombing and killing civilians non stop including little girls of one team who participated in this cup. It has been almost in war non stop since 1941 and responsible directly and indirectly for millions of people deaths

It is the principal instigator of many conflicts in the world including the one going on in Europe and Middle East.

—-
My opinion is I prefer to see all Sidorenkos with a TT racket and not somewhere in a trench with a gun killing his Ukrainian cousins or brothers. I wish all soldiers were given a TT racket or a football instead of guns or knives

—-

Then you add the people who have been taken by ICE custody and have died which has affected minorities the most. Reminds me so much of what happened to Japanese Americans after WW2 where they were taken into concentration camps as they were blamed for what happened in the war even if they took no part in it.

 

[latej]

I take my daughter to drink a beer and buy her a juice, I return back and have 8 notifications... The forum is alive I guess ;-)

 

[jkugin]

It's crazy that even with the planners of the coup (i.e.Victoria Newland) bragging about it and openly saying that they select who can get to power in 2014 you still don't believe it. Perhaps you just came back from your 14th covid booster because it's safe and effective🤣

George Soros' Money was well spent if i read this.

Was I paid? And why didn't I receive the money?

I repeat: Ukraine's parliament remained the same. All state institutions continued to function as before. The President was abducted by the aggressor nation, Russia. New elections were held.
Could you then define what constitutes a coup? Perhaps I am misunderstanding the term?

 

[piligrim]

BTW, I wonder where Grebnev is...

here:

World Table Tennis

www.worldtabletennis.com

 

[Egon]

I'm honestly a bit baffled that the mods allow this thread to go on.

Nothing is likely to come out of it other than bad blood among board members.

On the contrary, I am glad that I can express my point of view as a person, who looks at these events from the inside. I would be pleased if at least one person out of all those, who read this, changed their attitude towards these events and towards our Ukrainian people for the better.

 

[JackJohnson]

I simply cannot take people who want to punish Russia seriously when no one from either Israel or the US has faced any repercussions for what has transpired in the Middle East.

100% facts. I wonder if LA28 is still happening after all the things that USA have done so far recently.

It seems USA and Israel can get a free pass from committing any crimes whereas if countries like China and Russia do it they would be called out for it and would get sanctions for it.

Just like the whole spying situation when Snowden revealed that the USA was spying on other countries. People seem to have no problem when USA does the spying and see it as a good thing but when China and Russia do the spying it’s bad.

The double standards has got to stop.

 

[Egon]

Dude, better stick to what you have a clue on and dont parrot the propaganda the man on the TV told you

This applies to you in full.
Don't watch russian TV, because everything you wrote about in this post is russian propaganda, that has nothing to do with reality.

 

[h3llary]

On the contrary, I am glad that I can express my point of view as a person, who looks at these events from the inside. I would be pleased if at least one person out of all those, who read this, changed their attitude towards these events and towards our Ukrainian people for the better.

banning Sidorenko from international events won't make a slightly difference for Ukranian people, let's be real about it.

Be consistent in your views, if you want to impose sanctions on countries who have conducted wars then you should start supporting the ban for American/Israeli athletes as well.

Considering the topic starter @piligrim , if I were the mod I'd considering banning/blocking the troll because he is here to just stir/hit more shit on the fan.

If he wanted to really ban russian athletes he would not be crying over it on a table tennis forum of all places. He would go to court and dispute the decision that allowed them to participate internationally in the first place, but he decided to just cause political drama here.