DHS Inner Carbon Blades Comparison: Sun Yingsha, Wang Chuqin, Long 5 & B2X

[oophyte]

Yeah and in these blades is yellow so maybe is just a color die, or there is more going on, I have never been able to find a real definitive answer (in different forums) so if somebody knows for sure please tell us!

It's yellow because it's Kevlar AKA para-aramid AKA the bullet vest material known for high tensile strength per weight ratio. The Chinese call it KLC (KevLar Carbon? I don't really understand the L. Maybe it's for parity with ALC) or 黄芳碳
黄 = yellow
芳 (芳纶纤维 ) = aramid fiber
碳 (碳纤维) = carbon fiber

For comparison, ALC is 蓝芳碳
蓝 = blue
芳 (芳基纤维) = arylate fiber
碳 (碳纤维) = carbon fiber

Notice how both aramid 芳纶 and arylate 芳基 get shortened to 芳, while referring to different chemical compositions. Anyway, it's just a chemical name, neither aromatic nor a dye lol, although I guess aromatic follows the same pattern with the first 2 English letters in common.

Super ALC (SALC) seems to just be changing the ratio of the weave.
DHS has in the recent couple of years released Long5H and 301H. These have extra hardened KLC or extra dense KLC. Some netizens unofficially refer to it as SKLC, again probably following the SALC convention, even though we don't have confirmation of how the HL5H fiber is actually prepared.

Before anybody asks, I don't know about all the other niche fibers like ZLC, PLC, or the newly popular green fiber that that one Korean subcontractor is manufacturing on behalf of Tibar/Xiom/Double Fish.

 

[victormanriquey]

It's yellow because it's Kevlar AKA para-aramid AKA the bullet vest material known for high tensile strength per weight ratio. The Chinese call it KLC (KevLar Carbon? I don't really understand the L. Maybe it's for parity with ALC) or 黄芳碳
黄 = yellow
芳 (芳纶纤维 ) = aramid fiber
碳 (碳纤维) = carbon fiber

For comparison, ALC is 蓝芳碳
蓝 = blue
芳 (芳基纤维) = arylate fiber
碳 (碳纤维) = carbon fiber

Notice how both aramid 芳纶 and arylate 芳基 get shortened to 芳, while referring to different chemical compositions. Anyway, it's just a chemical name, neither aromatic nor a dye lol, although I guess aromatic follows the same pattern with the first 2 English letters in common.

Super ALC (SALC) seems to just be changing the ratio of the weave.
DHS has in the recent couple of years released Long5H and 301H. These have extra hardened KLC or extra dense KLC. Some netizens unofficially refer to it as SKLC, again probably following the SALC convention, even though we don't have confirmation of how the HL5H fiber is actually prepared.

Before anybody asks, I don't know about all the other niche fibers like ZLC, PLC, or the newly popular green fiber that that one Korean subcontractor is manufacturing on behalf of Tibar/Xiom/Double Fish.

Thanks @oophyte! I dont speak Chinese so this is very helpful, explains indeed what others had said before but now with the language confirmation, much appreciated!

 

[dingyibvs]

It's yellow because it's Kevlar AKA para-aramid AKA the bullet vest material known for high tensile strength per weight ratio. The Chinese call it KLC (KevLar Carbon? I don't really understand the L. Maybe it's for parity with ALC) or 黄芳碳
黄 = yellow
芳 (芳纶纤维 ) = aramid fiber
碳 (碳纤维) = carbon fiber

For comparison, ALC is 蓝芳碳
蓝 = blue
芳 (芳基纤维) = arylate fiber
碳 (碳纤维) = carbon fiber

Notice how both aramid 芳纶 and arylate 芳基 get shortened to 芳, while referring to different chemical compositions. Anyway, it's just a chemical name, neither aromatic nor a dye lol, although I guess aromatic follows the same pattern with the first 2 English letters in common.

Super ALC (SALC) seems to just be changing the ratio of the weave.
DHS has in the recent couple of years released Long5H and 301H. These have extra hardened KLC or extra dense KLC. Some netizens unofficially refer to it as SKLC, again probably following the SALC convention, even though we don't have confirmation of how the HL5H fiber is actually prepared.

Before anybody asks, I don't know about all the other niche fibers like ZLC, PLC, or the newly popular green fiber that that one Korean subcontractor is manufacturing on behalf of Tibar/Xiom/Double Fish.

Just a minor correction, both the Chinese character 芳, and the English term "aromatic" refer to a specific cyclic organic chemistry structure which for example Kevlar contains. As such, the fibers are indeed aromatic, just not in the sense of smell.

 

[victormanriquey]

Yeah so basic

Just a minor correction, both the Chinese character 芳, and the English term "aromatic" refer to a specific cyclic organic chemistry structure which for example Kevlar contains. As such, the fibers are indeed aromatic, just not in the sense of smell.

Makes sense thanks for the explanation, I guess it's one of those 'false friends' in a way

Even if the blades comparison is not helpful for players, this was all great info on the KLC, thanks again!! Knowing Chinese certainly helps sometimes

 

[Coolsta Connor]

What actually makes the W968 flex more than the Q968?

I haven't tried either yet, but I'm honestly leaning more towards the Q968 from what I've read. I like the sound of the extra speed on BH, and the crisper feeling, whereas the W968 seems to have a bit more feeling, more top-end power, and potentially more spin, especially on BH which also does appeal to me. Some sort of mid way point might be nice.

I like hard, head-heavy blades, however I keep seeing people say the W968 isn't really suited to people who actively use both wings and switch between them a lot. As well as the BH being sluggish on W968. I'd probably use D09C on BH, and maybe transition to Z03 eventually, so I'm also wondering if that makes the W968 even less suitable.

I haven't properly tried H3 on BH yet either. I have H3PN 41º on my 91g FZD ALC, and honestly even on BH it feels pretty nice, but obviously it's lacking some speed ,and would need extra boosting. I really like the low arc, but it does feel quite demanding.

The whole inner vs outer carbon thing is also confusing me. I feel like inner carbon fits my game better, especially since a lot of pros with a similar style use it, but I don't exactly find it easy to use. At the moment I think the FZD ALC is probably a good base for me. It's demanding enough that I'm learning to optimise my technique, but still has enough forgiveness for me to figure out what I actually like. Then later I can try a W968 or Q968, and see where I want to go.

My playstyle is basically mid distance, putting pressure on people with aggressive, spinny FH loops, and using placement to open up the table rather than just trying to hit through them. If I get a shorter ball I'll come in and kill it. However, most people nowadays tend to just tank the spin with speed, as the game gets faster and faster.

On BH I like going really wide/cross court or long and spinny to put them in an awkward position, then either finish the next ball, or play a spinny loop from mid distance. I usually take the ball fairly early or around the peak. I like playing with a lot of spin and brushing, but I also like being able to power through the ball when I need to push them back.

A big part of my game is trying to keep control of the rally so they don't get an easy attack. If they do attack though, I'm comfortable counterlooping on both wings. I prefer a lower arc as well, partly because I like making the opponent step back, and then countering from there.

I'm also fairly tall with long limbs, so I can get a lot of leverage, and spin, but my recovery isn't as quick.

For an eventual custom blade I'd probably want something around 5.8–5.9mm, max ~91g, and preferably not too head heavy so the BH-FH transition doesn't feel slow. Ideally I'd want something with a bit of the W968's FH/top-end spin, and feeling, but closer to the Q968's crispness, and BH response.

If I went with 38° H3 on BH I'd definitely want it to feel crisper than what people describe the Q968 as, since I've heard some people say the Q968 can feel a bit muted.

So I guess what I'm really looking for is almost a modified Q968 lol. Basically Q968 characteristics, but with a bit more of that W968 FH feeling/power.

For people who've actually used both, how different is the flex really? And do you think the W968 is actually a bad fit for someone who uses both wings actively, or is that exaggerated?

 

[victormanriquey]

What actually makes the W968 flex more than the Q968?

I haven't tried either yet, but I'm honestly leaning more towards the Q968 from what I've read. I like the sound of the extra speed on BH, and the crisper feeling, whereas the W968 seems to have a bit more feeling, more top-end power, and potentially more spin, especially on BH which also does appeal to me. Some sort of mid way point might be nice.

I like hard, head-heavy blades, however I keep seeing people say the W968 isn't really suited to people who actively use both wings and switch between them a lot. As well as the BH being sluggish on W968. I'd probably use D09C on BH, and maybe transition to Z03 eventually, so I'm also wondering if that makes the W968 even less suitable.

I haven't properly tried H3 on BH yet either. I have H3PN 41º on my 91g FZD ALC, and honestly even on BH it feels pretty nice, but obviously it's lacking some speed ,and would need extra boosting. I really like the low arc, but it does feel quite demanding.

The whole inner vs outer carbon thing is also confusing me. I feel like inner carbon fits my game better, especially since a lot of pros with a similar style use it, but I don't exactly find it easy to use. At the moment I think the FZD ALC is probably a good base for me. It's demanding enough that I'm learning to optimise my technique, but still has enough forgiveness for me to figure out what I actually like. Then later I can try a W968 or Q968, and see where I want to go.

My playstyle is basically mid distance, putting pressure on people with aggressive, spinny FH loops, and using placement to open up the table rather than just trying to hit through them. If I get a shorter ball I'll come in and kill it. However, most people nowadays tend to just tank the spin with speed, as the game gets faster and faster.

On BH I like going really wide/cross court or long and spinny to put them in an awkward position, then either finish the next ball, or play a spinny loop from mid distance. I usually take the ball fairly early or around the peak. I like playing with a lot of spin and brushing, but I also like being able to power through the ball when I need to push them back.

A big part of my game is trying to keep control of the rally so they don't get an easy attack. If they do attack though, I'm comfortable counterlooping on both wings. I prefer a lower arc as well, partly because I like making the opponent step back, and then countering from there.

I'm also fairly tall with long limbs, so I can get a lot of leverage, and spin, but my recovery isn't as quick.

For an eventual custom blade I'd probably want something around 5.8–5.9mm, max ~91g, and preferably not too head heavy so the BH-FH transition doesn't feel slow. Ideally I'd want something with a bit of the W968's FH/top-end spin, and feeling, but closer to the Q968's crispness, and BH response.

If I went with 38° H3 on BH I'd definitely want it to feel crisper than what people describe the Q968 as, since I've heard some people say the Q968 can feel a bit muted.

So I guess what I'm really looking for is almost a modified Q968 lol. Basically Q968 characteristics, but with a bit more of that W968 FH feeling/power.

For people who've actually used both, how different is the flex really? And do you think the W968 is actually a bad fit for someone who uses both wings actively, or is that exaggerated?

Hey @Coolsta Connor I think for me to say I'd need to go much deeper into all the aspects of your game, like I do with the personalised advise on my site, but that aside, maybe some thoughts into what you said above:

- I have personally not experienced the WCQ as much harder than the L5, if anything a bit softer, but I have the commercial versions, and I used the WCQ much more than I used L5, so I'd take this with a pinch of salt. In any case, differences are small for me, not like day and night, day and night is B2X or SYS, that's much clearer of a feeling. I'm not sure how DHS makes the blades have one character or the other, it is a combination of ply thickness, alignment, glue used, glue compression, composite layer, etc. Also handle affects the ergodynamics of FH vs BH preference, I feel like the H5 handle wants me to play more FH, and I feel like the WCQ handle prefers a more BH oriented grip, minimal differences but you can feel them.

- If you like outer more, even it fits your playstyle less as you say, then no need to change, it is perfectly possible that you prefer a FZD over a W968, players differ in many ways, so it can be fine, only if you have a low level I wouldn't recommend it, but from what you say, you seem like you know your stuff

- For me the commercial WCQ didn't feel so muted, it vibrates nicely, but hey, again, just my experience, experiences differ.

 

[victormanriquey]

Btw, just below my blogpost summary table, I have added a note, linking to this thread, with the review of @dingyibvs explaining that he feels the hardness different than I do, which is perfectly fine, so in this way, users can take both opinions plus what others say, and hopefully that helps them decide!!! The more info the better <3

 

[oophyte]

From the manufacturing perspective, The main difference is in the core layer thickness. Thickness from lowest to highest:
W968 < Q968 < S968 < HL5X
And assuming all else the same, from thickness you can expect the usual consequential correlation with hardness, speed, and weight; and inverse correlation with flex, dwell, and spin.

W968 was born in 2013 in the 40mm ball era, so all subsequent iterations have been trying to modernize it by addressing the deficiency in speed.

HL5H from 2025 is back to the W968 thickness (and weight), but this time hardness is achieved through the hardened fiber layer. Being able to reduce the thickness back down means retaining more primary deflection.

Source: MoNai (莫奈)

 

[dingyibvs]

From the manufacturing perspective, The main difference is in the core layer thickness. Thickness from lowest to highest:
W968 < Q968 < S968 < HL5X
And assuming all else the same, from thickness you can expect the usual consequential correlation with hardness, speed, and weight; and inverse correlation with flex, dwell, and spin.

W968 was born in 2013 in the 40mm ball era, so all subsequent iterations have been trying to modernize it by addressing the deficiency in speed.

HL5H from 2025 is back to the W968 thickness (and weight), but this time hardness is achieved through the hardened fiber layer. Being able to reduce the thickness back down means retaining more primary deflection.

Source: MoNai (莫奈)

All else is not the same though, and W968 and Q968 have the same ply thickness for all layers. IMO there are definitely differences in the composite layer. Some have suggested different carbon density and different weave directions.

 

[Tyce]

A lot of mixed reviews usually tells more about the differences between blades of the same model. Especially when you compare models that are so similar to each other in terms of composition, this is very likely to come into play.

We've all seen this before, during the endless and countless internet argument that is "The great war of the Viscaria family" where Viscaria, TB ALC and FZD ALC are all the most crisp, the spinniest, fastest, slowest, most muted, best feedback and most likely to be voted Blade of the Year 202X in Ping Magazine's annual fictional awards.

Most differences are just production related and wood being wood. Even a couple of degrees difference inside the factory would be a factor and I guess they produce year round.

Instead, why not compare the factual elements besides what you have clearly covered already.

Is W968 indeed a larger head size?
Are there differences in shoulder shape?
Can you tell, from the alternating yellow and black bits, if the weave has a different pattern? (ttgearlab has a great piece on the 301 series that goes into what that could mean)

Also, there are supposedly older and newer compositions of the w968, where the core has been thickened. It's not really a commercial model, is it, so DHS can play with the recipe all they like.

 

[victormanriquey]

From the manufacturing perspective, The main difference is in the core layer thickness. Thickness from lowest to highest:
W968 < Q968 < S968 < HL5X
And assuming all else the same, from thickness you can expect the usual consequential correlation with hardness, speed, and weight; and inverse correlation with flex, dwell, and spin.

W968 was born in 2013 in the 40mm ball era, so all subsequent iterations have been trying to modernize it by addressing the deficiency in speed.

HL5H from 2025 is back to the W968 thickness (and weight), but this time hardness is achieved through the hardened fiber layer. Being able to reduce the thickness back down means retaining more primary deflection.

Source: MoNai (莫奈)

Yes it seems also like the new Long 5 is fairly different from the old Long 5 according to TTGearLab Review Makes sense that they adapt the model over time, as the game changes. And indeed core thickness is clearly different in 2 of my blades, you can even see with the bare eye, specially SYS and B2X have very pronounced cores.

As @dingyibvs says, I cannot see a huge difference in cores in the Long 5 and WCQ that I have, maybe something little but not as clear as the SYS and B2X. I have not looked under the hood/wood (pun intended) so I dont know about the weaving pattern @Tyce , but you are right, it's a lot of nuances here and in the end, wood is wood, commercial is also less consistent than national versions, and I'm just an amateur, so I only compare the commercials haha

What I do know is that the shoulders/neck are different yes, because I'm sensitive (read: a bit OCD) about that, and the WCQ is small overall, and allows a deeper grip than L5/SYS, where handle is bigger overall. B2X is an odd duck, the handle is less refined, and somehow I like it, but it is by no means a perfect fit like WCQ feels in the hand, it's juts a tad too small for my hands so when sweaty, it sometimes is an issue.

 

[steve888]

Yes the core thickness can make a difference both in power and stability.

For example, the thicker core of the B2x vs my thinner core innerforce blade has meant that the innerforce is slightly slower even though its the same type of wood. However the outer ply (past the carbon ) of the innerforce is slightly thicker which seems to create more control and dwell than the B2x. Same as Butterfly harimoto alc vs B. Ovtcharov alc, - thicker core has made the Ovtcharov quite a bit faster.

I have heard its the same with Viscaria the old model I think it was 5.7mm (38mm ball) and now 5.8mm thick for the new 40mm TT ball.

 

[GhostBackhand]

I have a B2X and it's as hard as a chopping board. Lol

 

[Grumms]

Thanks for the comparison. Did you ever try the King acB ? It's my favorite blade and I wonder how it compares to the Inner Limbas.

 

[Sriver1]

King acb is faster. I like it much more.

 

[oophyte]

All else is not the same though, and W968 and Q968 have the same ply thickness for all layers. IMO there are definitely differences in the composite layer. Some have suggested different carbon density and different weave directions.

Here's where I saw it:

From left to right:
SYS: somewhat thick
WCQ: slightly thick
HL5: (standard)
HL5X: extra thick

On the other hand, he only verbally talked about Q968 being hardened relative to W968, without specifying the manufacuring treatment. It is only the graphics that imply it to be thicker than W968.

At the end of the day, I don't work for DHS. Nor do I own a Q968 to compare, nor the tools to measure with enough precision. So, take MoNai's words however you want lol.

 

[victormanriquey]

I have a B2X and it's as hard as a chopping board. Lol

It is a hard blade indeed haha

Thanks for the comparison. Did you ever try the King acB ? It's my favorite blade and I wonder how it compares to the Inner Limbas.

No I haven't! But will try one day Its on the list haha

Here's where I saw it:

View attachment 43017

From left to right:
SYS: somewhat thick
WCQ: slightly thick
HL5: (standard)
HL5X: extra thick

On the other hand, he only verbally talked about Q968 being hardened relative to W968, without specifying the manufacuring treatment. It is only the graphics that imply it to be thicker than W968.

At the end of the day, I don't work for DHS. Nor do I own a Q968 to compare, nor the tools measure with enough precision. So, take MoNai's words however you want lol.

Maybe you can get a job at DHS tomorrow and tell us hahahaha thanks again for the insights! We will take MoNai's words for granted, he seems like he knows his stuff

 

[Myth]

Btw, just below my blogpost summary table, I have added a note, linking to this thread, with the review of @dingyibvs explaining that he feels the hardness different than I do, which is perfectly fine, so in this way, users can take both opinions plus what others say, and hopefully that helps them decide!!! The more info the better <3

Can you help me decide /give your opinions upon inner carbon (preferably alc) blades under a budget,
below are some of the blades I have been looking at. 🙂

• Sanwei 75 Inner ALC

• Lemuria Long 5 Clone
• DHS Fang Bo B2 / B2X
• Loki Telson China

I am trying to choose between the Sanwei 75 Inner and the Lemuria Long 5/ other blades, but I can only buy one blade for the next ~2 years. How do they compare directly in terms of hardness, flexibility, spin/ control, comfort, and loop arc?
For rubbers, I am considering H8-80 37° (FH) + Mercury 2 Medium (BH) to practice a spin-focused shakehand looping style. What do you think?
How would you rate the Sanwei 75 Inner versus the Lemuria Long 5 versus other blades in a like, say usd 55 budget?
Thanks for you time 🙂

 

[victormanriquey]

Can you help me decide /give your opinions upon inner carbon (preferably alc) blades under a budget,
below are some of the blades I have been looking at. 🙂

• Sanwei 75 Inner ALC
• Lemuria Long 5 Clone
• DHS Fang Bo B2 / B2X
• Loki Telson China

I am trying to choose between the Sanwei 75 Inner and the Lemuria Long 5/ other blades, but I can only buy one blade for the next ~2 years. How do they compare directly in terms of hardness, flexibility, spin/ control, comfort, and loop arc?
For rubbers, I am considering H8-80 37° (FH) + Mercury 2 Medium (BH) to practice a spin-focused shakehand looping style. What do you think?
How would you rate the Sanwei 75 Inner versus the Lemuria Long 5 versus other blades in a like, say usd 55 budget?
Thanks for you time 🙂

Id love to help you but I have not tried the sanwei 75 or the Lemuria Long 5 sorry!

What I can say, is that if you want a soft and flexy blade, don't go for the B2 line, none are soft and flexy

There is this thread that says good things about the sanwei though: https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/sanwei-75-inner-carbon-is-a-great-blade.34041/

I will try to test one day so I learn more about it

8-80 FH can work as a softer hybrid, mercury 2 nice soft BH, so it will be controlled and easy to learn if you compare other harder hybrid options (hard in degrees and hard to handle).

One thought though @Myth : if you are choosing for safe control rubbers, why go for inner ALC? maybe 7 ply could also do the job? Lets say PG7? Super cheap and absolutely amazing thing!!! Also fextra fantastic 7 ply for less than 30€ (had the anniversary edition)

Ps. I have had a Yinhe 05 for a while and I found it pretty crispy, so also not the same as dhs feel, also handle was different, felt fuller in your hand, more 'anatomic' vibes

 

[Myth]

Id love to help you but I have not tried the sanwei 75 or the Lemuria Long 5 sorry!

What I can say, is that if you want a soft and flexy blade, don't go for the B2 line, none are soft and flexy

There is this thread that says good things about the sanwei though: https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/sanwei-75-inner-carbon-is-a-great-blade.34041/

I will try to test one day so I learn more about it

8-80 FH can work as a softer hybrid, mercury 2 nice soft BH, so it will be controlled and easy to learn if you compare other harder hybrid options (hard in degrees and hard to handle).

One thought though @Myth : if you are choosing for safe control rubbers, why go for inner ALC? maybe 7 ply could also do the job? Lets say PG7? Super cheap and absolutely amazing thing!!! Also fextra fantastic 7 ply for less than 30€ (had the anniversary edition)

Ps. I have had a Yinhe 05 for a while and I found it pretty crispy, so also not the same as dhs feel, also handle was different, felt fuller in your hand, more 'anatomic' vibes

Do you think the yinhe would do the job?
As for why inner alc, I’m going to use this blade for quite some time, so inner alc will help in future, also there’s that sweet spot advantage. Rn I’m at low intermediate 🙂
Also 8 80 choose 37 or 38 hardness? These rubbers are only for a short time say 7-12 months at a max, and I think they will help me develop my game better.
Also note : The sanwei has inner alc but with koto outer ply, how will this work out?
Thanks🙂