Who has the best ___________?

[PhilipRJ]

Forehand: Wang Liqin, Xu Xin
Backhand: Wang Hao, Zhang Jike
Footwork: Zhang Jike, Timo Boll
Spirit: Adrien Mattenet
Counter Attack: Ma Lin
Service: Dimitrij Ovtcharov, Michael Maze, Ma Lin
Dropshot: Jan Ove Waldner
Flick: Zhang Jike
Block: Jan Ove Waldner
Lob: Ma Long
Sportsmanship: Timo Boll

 

[Alborz]

Funny. Everyone seems to think Xu Xin has the best footwork. He might be among the fastest and he might have pretty good footwork, but, fundamentally Zhang Jike's footwork is really better than everyone's. He never crosses over unless he really needs to. He footworks all the way to the forehand side to take those over the table backhands on the forehand side and gets back into position in case his over the table backhand is returned. That is actually part of what separate's Zhang Jike from everyone else. He does not break form.

Ryu Seung Min is fast as well and his footwork was pretty amazing when he was in his prime. But, today, Zhang Jike is doing stuff most people do not even realize he is doing. And his backhand is one of the best as well. Nothing against Kreanga, nobody had a bigger backhand than him. But very few people can do as many things with their backhand as Zhang Jike can.

Werner Schlager had a pretty great backhand as well.

footwork is not jumping to the right position after playing a BH form the FH side . most of it is to play with your stronger side ( usually FH ) most of the time and Xu Xin is master of it .

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

footwork is not jumping to the right position after playing a BH form the FH side . most of it is to play with your stronger side ( usually FH ) most of the time and Xu Xin is master of it .

Footwork is not just moving around. Footwork is keeping your body in the right position by moving your feet. If when you are doing forehands from the backhand side and you get moved towards your forehand and you have to cross over, your opponent has broken down your footwork and positioning. If you move to every part of the court and can keep your feet in stance and your torso in position, that is very good footwork. Zhang Jike does not often turn to his forehand from his backhand side. That is because his backhand is soooo good he does not have to. He can pin people to the backhand side with his backhand or make them pay if he is hitting there and they turn to their forehand. But, when he wants to, he can turn to his forehand while on the backhand side as well.

All this is why Zhang Jike was able to beat Xu Xin 4-0 in the WTTC semi-finals. While Xu Xin was running all over the place and getting his feet crossed, Zhang Jike capitalized on when he was out of position. He might be fast enough to get a lot of balls without perfect footwork, but, fundamentally, his footwork breaks down frequently.

If good footwork was just moving to play your stronger side then:

1) Zhang Jike is definitely doing that with his serve return and not getting out of position for the next shot. But Zhang Jike is doing good footwork and not getting out of position, through entire rallies.

2) Ma Long would have really good footwork, because, like Xu Xin, he turns to his forehand a lot also. But, when someone goes down the line on him after he has turned to his forehand, he often crosses over, he often does funny, unconventional things to try and get to the ball, and his footwork becomes sloppy.

Xu Xin moves deep to the backhand side to take his forehand in part because he is not as confident with his backhand. Same with Ma Long. Xu Xin is fast and can get to a lot of balls. But, when he moves, his fundamental footwork often breaks down and he uses last resort foot steps instead of solid fundamental footwork to get balls that are hard to reach. It is very rare to see Zhang Jike have to cross over to get to a ball because he keeps his form in his footwork and gets to so many balls very efficiently.

 

[TableTennisDK]

Footwork is not just moving around. Footwork is keeping your body in the right position by moving your feet. If when you are doing forehands from the backhand side and you get moved towards your forehand and you have to cross over, your opponent has broken down your footwork and positioning. If you move to every part of the court and can keep your feet in stance and your torso in position, that is very good footwork. Zhang Jike does not often turn to his forehand from his backhand side. That is because his backhand is soooo good he does not have to. He can pin people to the backhand side with his backhand or make them pay if he is hitting there and they turn to their forehand. But, when he wants to, he can turn to his forehand while on the backhand side as well.

All this is why Zhang Jike was able to beat Xu Xin 4-0 in the WTTC semi-finals. While Xu Xin was running all over the place and getting his feet crossed, Zhang Jike capitalized on when he was out of position. He might be fast enough to get a lot of balls without perfect footwork, but, fundamentally, his footwork breaks down frequently.

Footwork is not the reason for Zhang's victory over Xu. Xu was the first seed and all the eyes of China, were following his every move. He could not bare the pressure. Zhang is in a better state of mind, and he does not let the big tournaments influence it, that is why he beat Xu easily. Regarding the cross over footwork: The cross over footwork is not a weakness in the Chinese game, it is a strategy to always use your forhand, even though the ball is on the other side of the table. It is amazing to be able to do that. It is a strength, not at weakness. Regarding the footwork: Xu has the best footwork in the world right now, that is an obvious fact. Even Ryu Seung Min is saying it! Xu has the best footwork, while Zhang has many other qualities.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

By the way, I love Xu Xin. I like him more than I like Zhang Jike. I am just being honest about the difference between good, solid fundamental footwork that keeps you in position to hit the ball your hitting and get to the next ball. I am not going to confuse the idea of being fast with good footwork. And I am not going to confuse avoiding the backhand with good footwork. Sometimes it is good footwork. But crossing over and having to abandon the correct fundamental steps to get to a ball is being fast, it is not always good footwork.

Crossing over, in itself is not always a bad thing, but if you over use it, or it causes you to get turned to a bad position where you can not use parallel steps to get the next ball, it can cause your footwork to break down.

 

[Matt Hetherington]

Forehand: Ma Long
Backhand: Aleksandr Karakasevic, Adrian Crisan
Footwork: Xu Xin
Spirit: Dimitrij Ovtcharov
Counter Attack: Oh Sang Eun
Service: Ma Lin, Kenta Matsudaira
Dropshot: Werner Schlager
Flick: Zhang Jike
Block: Oh Sang Eun
Lob: Jean-Michel Saive, Jorgen Persson
Sportsmanship: Timo Boll, Jean-Michel Saive

 

[Alborz]

By the way, I love Xu Xin. I like him more than I like Zhang Jike. I am just being honest about the difference between good, solid fundamental footwork that keeps you in position to hit the ball your hitting and get to the next ball. I am not going to confuse the idea of being fast with good footwork. And I am not going to confuse avoiding the backhand with good footwork. Sometimes it is good footwork. But crossing over and having to abandon the correct fundamental steps to get to a ball is being fast, it is not always good footwork.

Crossing over, in itself is not always a bad thing, but if you over use it, or it causes you to get turned to a bad position where you can not use parallel steps to get the next ball, it can cause your footwork to break down.

if a player's BH is so weaker than his FH then crossing over even if he over use it is not bad because you can not return the ball with you BH and will loss the point but if you play a FH from BH side then you have a chance to finish that point with this shot or reaching the next ball .

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

if a player's BH is so weaker than his FH then crossing over even if he over use it is not bad because you can not return the ball with you BH and will loss the point but if you play a FH from BH side then you have a chance to finish that point with this shot or reaching the next ball .

This is true. And don't get me wrong, I really love the way Xu Xin plays. He is actually my favorite player on the Chinese National Team. And I never fully realized how good Zhang Jike was before the 2013 World Championships. I was thinking that a lot of how he got to win the 2011 WTTC and the 2012 Olympic Gold had more to do with luck than anything else. But, somewhere in the middle of this current WTTC I realized something about his game. It is understated. It is not fancy. He is stronger on game tactics than I realized. But I also realized how often he is in a good position to take the best stroke he can and is hardly ever turned or taking a shot from an awkward position and he always uses parallel footwork to get himself in position for every shot. I realized that there is more to his technique than I ever realized before. It is not flashy. It could easily go unnoticed. But it is very effective and efficient. And part of that is actually, how good his footwork really is.

 

[Spinandspeed]

Best Cho: Me!

 

[Alborz]

This is true. And don't get me wrong, I really love the way Xu Xin plays. He is actually my favorite player on the Chinese National Team. And I never fully realized how good Zhang Jike was before the 2013 World Championships. I was thinking that a lot of how he got to win the 2011 WTTC and the 2012 Olympic Gold had more to do with luck than anything else. But, somewhere in the middle of this current WTTC I realized something about his game. It is understated. It is not fancy. He is stronger on game tactics than I realized. But I also realized how often he is in a good position to take the best stroke he can and is hardly ever turned or taking a shot from an awkward position and he always uses parallel footwork to get himself in position for every shot. I realized that there is more to his technique than I ever realized before. It is not flashy. It could easily go unnoticed. But it is very effective and efficient. And part of that is actually, how good his footwork really is.

good points Carl

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

By the way, part of what helped me see and realize how good Zhang Jike's footwork was, was Richard Prause's commentary. He was analyzing Zhang Jike's footwork and how technical it was and how much discipline it takes to get that technical with the footwork and keeping those side steps and remaining faced toward the table. And I realized, his footwork, without being flashy or looking special, really keeps him in a good position for every ball so he can take higher quality shots and end points more quickly instead of wasting energy in long rallies that did not need to be long.

 

[Mikael Berglund]

Let's see what J-O Waldner thinks. This list is from a 2010 interview by the Swedish blog Pingis Anger-Management and can be found in whole here. The interview is great and a must-read for any Waldner fan.

Forehand loop, opening: Ma Lin
Forehand loop, in open play: Wang Liqin
Forehand flick: Damien Eloi, That was a bit unexpected, wasn’t it?
Backhand loop: Rosskopf, particularly against backspin. Otherwise Kreanga.
Backhand flick: Wang Hao, over the table. It was unreal.
Defensive play: Vladimir Samsonov
Footwork: Ryu Seung Min
Ball sense: Mikael Appelgren
Reading the game: Jan-Ove Waldner
Tactics: Jan-Ove Waldner
Serve: Liu Guoliang
Returns: Jörgen Persson
Physique: Christophe Legout
Attitude: Wang Liqin

 

[bzing]

Funny. Everyone seems to think Xu Xin has the best footwork. He might be among the fastest and he might have pretty good footwork, but, fundamentally Zhang Jike's footwork is really better than everyone's. He never crosses over unless he really needs to. He footworks all the way to the forehand side to take those over the table backhands on the forehand side and gets back into position in case his over the table backhand is returned. That is actually part of what separate's Zhang Jike from everyone else. He does not break form.

That it's not his footwork, it's his weight transferring from his legs. You're making a fundemantal mistake, footwork is being fast on your FEET, he can never beat a penholder Xu Xin in doing that. However there's a big difference between these two. There should be another option added - weight transfer and that's what Zhang Jike is the best at and what makes him so effective in winning. If you watch him play and canvass the way he utilizes the power from his legs to insert into the ball in the match with Wang Hao you'll understand why. However Xu Xin's ability to reach the ball is simply so much quicker than Zhang Jike. You only have to watch Xu Xin vs Kenta Madsudaira to see this (when you watch the point where Xu Xin loops repeatedly Kenta's blocks, footwork just doesn't get better than this). Zhang Jike's ability to move on his feet (footwork) is still very good of course, because at this level everyone has to be quick on his feet and he's a pro after all but no way he's faster than Xu Xin. In fact in so many matches he neglects and doesn't move to the ball that is just 1-2m away.

A lot of people don't even have a clue about weight transferring which is so difficult to do the way Zhang Jike does it where he reflects himself from the gravity as if pushing 100kg from the ground and using that energy in the perfect harmony BEFORE his arm swing. Zhang Jike when it comes to arm motion he does a very short stroke, often not even stretching all the way because he uses his legs to produce the strength. This is why his flicks are so strong because he puts a lot of power into them but when it comes to reaching the ball with his feet he's definitely not the best.

 

[ducksick]

This is true. And don't get me wrong, I really love the way Xu Xin plays. He is actually my favorite player on the Chinese National Team. And I never fully realized how good Zhang Jike was before the 2013 World Championships. I was thinking that a lot of how he got to win the 2011 WTTC and the 2012 Olympic Gold had more to do with luck than anything else. But, somewhere in the middle of this current WTTC I realized something about his game. It is understated. It is not fancy. He is stronger on game tactics than I realized. But I also realized how often he is in a good position to take the best stroke he can and is hardly ever turned or taking a shot from an awkward position and he always uses parallel footwork to get himself in position for every shot. I realized that there is more to his technique than I ever realized before. It is not flashy. It could easily go unnoticed. But it is very effective and efficient. And part of that is actually, how good his footwork really is.

You watch the World Team 2012 Zhang vs Timo Boll. The footwork.Even the commentator also praised his footwork. His footwork, is far more better than XX. If in near future, hopefully there's a match btw Zhang Jike vs Kenta. So we can see how good he is comparing to XX or etc.

 

[bricephan]

Well, To me
Forehand loop, opening: Yan An
Forehand counter top-spin: Ma Long
Forehand speed drive: Yan An, Fan Zhengdong
Forehand flick: Ma Long
Backhand flick: Zhang Jike
Backhand counter top-spin: Zhou Yu
Backhand speed drive: Kenta, Koki, Ovtcharov
Chop: Seo Hyowon (I like her modern defense style with chopping, pushing in combination with smashing and speed drive, regularly)
Serve: Ma Lin (he mainly uses his serves with a huge spin to open the game)
Footwork: Obviously go for Xu Xin and Ryu Sung Min, but in view point of Carl's, I would say Ma Long (when he play with 100%) and Zhang Jike are also deserved with less move but precisely
Tactics: Can't be Zhang Jike 'coz he just follows his own favorite moves and less care about his opponents. Ma Long (again, 100% playing) always tries to explore his opponent's weakness, so he deserved a point.
Block: Chinese can't compare with EU players, and I would go for Jan-Ove Waldner
Attitude: Timo Boll, Wang Liquin

 

[Alborz]

You watch the World Team 2012 Zhang vs Timo Boll. The footwork.Even the commentator also praised his footwork. His footwork, is far more better than XX. If in near future, hopefully there's a match btw Zhang Jike vs Kenta. So we can see how good he is comparing to XX or etc.

there is a ZJK vs Kenta match in this years Austrian open but ZJK was not motivated so we can not see his real footwork .
and i think XX's footwork is better because he moves really fast . ZJK is always in position because he don't need to play FH all the time not because he have the best footwork .

 

[Tinykin]

Best view from rear: Daniela Dodean

 

[ulrich]

By the way, part of what helped me see and realize how good Zhang Jike's footwork was, was Richard Prause's commentary. He was analyzing Zhang Jike's footwork and how technical it was and how much discipline it takes to get that technical with the footwork and keeping those side steps and remaining faced toward the table. And I realized, his footwork, without being flashy or looking special, really keeps him in a good position for every ball so he can take higher quality shots and end points more quickly instead of wasting energy in long rallies that did not need to be long.

Do you have a link for a video of that match with commentary from Prause?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Do you have a link for a video of that match with commentary from Prause?

I honestly am not sure which match it was. Working 7 days a week does that to my brain. The WTTC is starting to be a blur. But I think it was Zhang Jike vs Fan Zhendong. If it was, it may still be up on the ITTF stream. That should be easy to find if that company with the copyright for the DVDs has not forced ITTF to take it down yet. His commentary in the particular match was very solid and technically on point.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

You watch the World Team 2012 Zhang vs Timo Boll. The footwork.Even the commentator also praised his footwork. His footwork, is far Letrosmore better than XX. If in near future, hopefully there's a match btw Zhang Jike vs Kenta. So we can see how good he is comparing to XX or etc.

Would be fun to see that. Fast feet is not always good footwork, although fast is fun to watch. And everybody is entitled to their opinion. They both are great and I do love watching Xu Xin.