Using D05 for a week, it too fast and hard to control... how to use it ?

[longle]

I don't believe the Pro's are using Butterfly rubbers that are much different to the commercial rubbers for sale.

Sure, they might have the pick of the rubbers (weight, where they were cut in the sheet etc), but until someone comes along with hard evidence to show otherwise, it's all just myth and hearsay.

I appreciate it might be different for DHS and other manufacturers.

But as for the rubber breaking in..... The only one I've noticed is Dignics 09C.

It went from feeling very hard initially, to just moderately hard after a while.

I've never really felt it significantly with Tenergy or Dignics 05. Certainly not enough to notice, and absolutely not enough to think that it could be more usable to someone who couldn't control it out of the box.

I also think what the pros are playing are what is on the market (maybe the pros rubbers are factory boosted)

People saying the pros are using a "different" version of the commercial rubbers are only justifying for their lack of techniques to do the shots that the pros are performing. Even if we really can get the "pros rubbers" we may not be able to use them.

 

[NDH]

I also think what the pros are playing are what is on the market (maybe the pros rubbers are factory boosted)

People saying the pros are using a "different" version of the commercial rubbers are only justifying for their lack of techniques to do the shots that the pros are performing. Even if we really can get the "pros rubbers" we may not be able to use them.

I personally think the whole "pro" vs "commercial" thing is massively over analysed.

I've played with a DHS blade designed for one of the top pro's (don't ask me who, I can't remember, although I did comment on here about it at the time).

There was just no difference to my eye/hand - Perhaps it was set up *exactly* the way that pro liked, but the differences on a lot of equipment between "pro" and "commercial" is so incredibly minuscule, it's barely worth talking about.

That being said, I think the differences over in China is bigger - Commercial grade H3 vs Pro stuff for example.

But for the European equipment, it's just a non story if you ask me!

 

[Jan_]

I don't believe the Pro's are using Butterfly rubbers that are much different to the commercial rubbers for sale.

Sure, they might have the pick of the rubbers (weight, where they were cut in the sheet etc), but until someone comes along with hard evidence to show otherwise, it's all just myth and hearsay.

I appreciate it might be different for DHS and other manufacturers.

But as for the rubber breaking in..... The only one I've noticed is Dignics 09C.

It went from feeling very hard initially, to just moderately hard after a while.

I've never really felt it significantly with Tenergy or Dignics 05. Certainly not enough to notice, and absolutely not enough to think that it could be more usable to someone who couldn't control it out of the box.

Tenergy 05 changes drastically within the first month. It does become softer, I'm in the process right now, the first day it felt harder with less dwell, now the ball sinks in more and has greater feel, catapult, arc and spin. Now brushing is easy while before I had to hit through the ball completely.

As for the differences for pro rubbers, reports of ryu seung min's tenergy 05 is that it's different from normal Tenergy 05.

Could be factory tuners that butterfly uses for tuning the rubbers according to the pros preferences or different manufacturing of the rubber itself. One thing's sure, there are differences.

Here's the article. Scroll down to find the review:

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/ryu-seung-min-rubber-review.10603/

 

[longle]

Tenergy 05 changes drastically within the first month. It does become softer, I'm in the process right now, the first day it felt harder with less dwell, now the ball sinks in more and has greater feel, catapult, arc and spin. Now brushing is easy while before I had to hit through the ball completely.

As for the differences for pro rubbers, reports of ryu seung min's tenergy 05 is that it's different from normal Tenergy 05.

Could be factory tuners that butterfly uses for tuning the rubbers according to the pros preferences or different manufacturing of the rubber itself. One thing's sure, there are differences.

Here's the article. Scroll down to find the review:

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/ryu-seung-min-rubber-review.10603/

After reading the review, sounds like it's a different rubber, but to me it's just a heavily boosted Ten05...

 

[Jan_]

After reading the review, sounds like it's a different rubber, but to me it's just a heavily boosted Ten05...

A heavily boosted t05 would be softer, this is harder. There is something different about it, it's not just a boosted t05. You heard it from the guy that has the thing.

 

[Tyce]

I think Table Tennis should have a rule similar to Running, where you're only allowed to have shoes that are commercially available products.

 

[AngelOfDrive]

I think the issue here is that anyone who describes the Viscaria as “slow”, without providing a hell of a lot of context to that comment will come across as inexperienced.

Indeed, I realise I should have provided more context to what I meant with that.

 

[NDH]

Tenergy 05 changes drastically within the first month. It does become softer, I'm in the process right now, the first day it felt harder with less dwell, now the ball sinks in more and has greater feel, catapult, arc and spin. Now brushing is easy while before I had to hit through the ball completely.

As for the differences for pro rubbers, reports of ryu seung min's tenergy 05 is that it's different from normal Tenergy 05.

Could be factory tuners that butterfly uses for tuning the rubbers according to the pros preferences or different manufacturing of the rubber itself. One thing's sure, there are differences.

Here's the article. Scroll down to find the review:

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/ryu-seung-min-rubber-review.10603/

You're basing your opinions on that?

I have no idea who Pricey11 is, and this is in no way a dig at them..... But there is absolutely zero I can take from that "review".

We have no way of knowing what Pricey's level is (he could have been a beginner for all we know).

After a couple of days of trying this rubber I have completed my review of the rubber, before I start the review I have come to the conclusion that this rubber has specifically made for RSM.

In Hand feel - The T05 had no differences in feel both with a fairly soft and springy sponge although to the eye the RSM 05 did have a more premium look.

These comments to start things off should give all the red flags you need. I'd love to know how the rubber looked more premium and if he'd say the same thing had he not known it was Ryu's rubber.

He's also made up his mind Butterfly designed the rubber just for 1 Pro.... Yeah, not going to happen to that level I don't think (but again, it's all opinion at this point).

Bounce - This was one of the areas where the normal 05 and the RSM 05 differed the most when simply bouncing the ball on the RSM 05 the spring acted a lot more quicker and crisper(felt more alive) and made the regular T05 seem a fair bit slower than we know and love.

A video would have been ideal.....

Again, not hating on Pricey - TTD Forums love content like this, but I really do feel it's a case of one person having rose tinted glasses at their prize, and then others repeating these "opinions" for years to come.

 

[Amayzde]

I have never used any Dignics rubber myself. But I do know that they are very hard.

Judging by your story it seems like you don’t have the explosiveness in your technique that is required to get the most out of a rubber like that.

The harder the rubber, the more you need to be able to grip the ball in a shorter amount of time. You are also using it on a Fan Zhendong ALC blade. This makes the rubber feel even harder.

If you really want to keep the rubber and know the technique, then here might be a useful video. At 3:28 Ti Long rolls the ball on the table and right before the ball falls off he grips it and pulls it over the net. Once you can do this you know you have the technique to create spin with any rubber.

 

[Jan_]

You're basing your opinions on that?

I have no idea who Pricey11 is, and this is in no way a dig at them..... But there is absolutely zero I can take from that "review".

We have no way of knowing what Pricey's level is (he could have been a beginner for all we know).

After a couple of days of trying this rubber I have completed my review of the rubber, before I start the review I have come to the conclusion that this rubber has specifically made for RSM.

In Hand feel - The T05 had no differences in feel both with a fairly soft and springy sponge although to the eye the RSM 05 did have a more premium look.

These comments to start things off should give all the red flags you need. I'd love to know how the rubber looked more premium and if he'd say the same thing had he not known it was Ryu's rubber.

He's also made up his mind Butterfly designed the rubber just for 1 Pro.... Yeah, not going to happen to that level I don't think (but again, it's all opinion at this point).

Bounce - This was one of the areas where the normal 05 and the RSM 05 differed the most when simply bouncing the ball on the RSM 05 the spring acted a lot more quicker and crisper(felt more alive) and made the regular T05 seem a fair bit slower than we know and love.

A video would have been ideal.....

Again, not hating on Pricey - TTD Forums love content like this, but I really do feel it's a case of one person having rose tinted glasses at their prize, and then others repeating these "opinions" for years to come.

Since he's the only source we have I'm willing to trust him. What I got from it is that pros rubbers are different from the general cut. I don't know exactly how they're different, but they are. You can feel tiny differences in rubbers no matter your level, he felt a difference, maybe not the exact one, but he did feel it. I trust that he's not a blatant liar.

 

[NDH]

Since he's the only source we have I'm willing to trust him. What I got from it is that pros rubbers are different from the general cut. I don't know exactly how they're different, but they are. You can feel tiny differences in rubbers no matter your level, he felt a difference, maybe not the exact one, but he did feel it. I trust that he's not a blatant liar.

I don't think he's a blatant liar.

But from a scientific comparison POV, there is absolutely nothing to go on here, and certainly nothing that makes me believe there is a difference.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I have good source that Butterfly does custom rubber spec for pros.
I also have good source on ESN products, the same happens.

 

[Jan_]

I don't think he's a blatant liar.

But from a scientific comparison POV, there is absolutely nothing to go on here, and certainly nothing that makes me believe there is a difference.

Well, there's also Tony that is trustworthy.

I have good source that Butterfly does custom rubber spec for pros.
I also have good source on ESN products, the same happens.

 

[NDH]

Well, there's also Tony that is trustworthy.

OK, I do trust Tony.

@Tony's Table Tennis - I'd genuinely love to know more about how Butterfly produces custom rubber specs for Pros.

How different are we talking?

 

[Jan_]

OK, I do trust Tony.

@Tony's Table Tennis - I'd genuinely love to know more about how Butterfly produces custom rubber specs for Pros.

How different are we talking?

Me too. What's up with the pros rubbers?

 

[kindof99]

I personally think the whole "pro" vs "commercial" thing is massively over analysed.

I've played with a DHS blade designed for one of the top pro's (don't ask me who, I can't remember, although I did comment on here about it at the time).

There was just no difference to my eye/hand - Perhaps it was set up *exactly* the way that pro liked, but the differences on a lot of equipment between "pro" and "commercial" is so incredibly minuscule, it's barely worth talking about.

That being said, I think the differences over in China is bigger - Commercial grade H3 vs Pro stuff for example.

But for the European equipment, it's just a non story if you ask me!

It is different, just most amateurs can't distinguish it

 

[JOOHATVJIYU]

I used Tenergy 05 and recently changed it to Dignics 05. Please compare it

 

[kindof99]

Me too. What's up with the pros rubbers?

At least for H3, pro version has 41.5 degree.... But the pro version doesn't mean better, just means more specific and maybe with more precise manufacture process.

 

[ben1229]

Viscaria for beginner + D05, what do you say?

I played TT 20+ years , and I still can't play good with D05, too many errors. Maybe my skill sucks. Vis for beginners is OK, but D05, meh I don't think so.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

OK, I do trust Tony.

@Tony's Table Tennis - I'd genuinely love to know more about how Butterfly produces custom rubber specs for Pros.

How different are we talking?

Thank you for trusting me

From what I know, a top Butterfly player used Tenergy 05 Hard for at least 2 years before it came out.
It was however branded Tenergy 05 on the rubber during that period. So I only took it as, a harder sponge T05.

It could be way longer than 2 years, I got the 2 year mark, because that was about when I was told the player got a harder sponge version and then 2 years later, Butterfly released T05H. So, I might not have the time frame correct, but we are talking about more than 1 year indeed, maybe even 2 to 3 years.

Why T05H came out so late.... I can't guess the reason, since it is one of Butterfly best sellers since its release, so business sense, withholding the release didn't make sense to me.

Sponge hardness is probably the easiest thing for any brand to make.
IE, one of the ESN brands (I can't say which), made a much harder rubber for a not well known pro.
I was actually surprised of that, since it wasn't a well known pro.
I'm guessing with ESN's case, it was maybe a "pro" batch for some other pro and they gave some to that unknown Pro, and not a special custom made for the unknown pro.

But for pros, the main Pro, it is easily doable.
In terms of production, they can tweak the formulae in to make it more grippy or firmer for example.
So it is not impossible for any brand to make say 50 or 100 sheets of the same rubber with a special formula, which is different to that of a retail run.
If you just look at the DHS order form, the pros can choose both topsheet and sponge specs. So, i'm sure everyone is capable of doing that.

I know the makers can make blades quite easily, since I had custom made blade for a SA national players (amateur player in the realm of pros)

I have friends who played in Germany,
2 of them with Timo Boll's club, this was 10+ years ago (can't remember the year)
One of them took Timo's car to and from practice daily.
Timo's rubber is special too according to both of them.

It isn't only my friends experience of using various European pros equipment, but I also know of other "lesser known pros", who used or was gifted rubbers from top pros, and all commented that, the pro's one felt so much better.

I am very confident the T05, ESN, and Timo's source mentioned above extremely reliable.
So, I would be suprised, someone like RSM would be using regular retail versions. If it is the same formula, it will be the highest QC at the least.