World Cup 2024

[NextLevel]

Look at Cheng I Ching today - playing great table tennis. Last year at WTTC 2023, she had a tremendous lost lead/choke vs Chen Xingtong that may have cost her a medal though she would have had to beat an out of form Wang Manyu to get it. But her heroic struggles should be celebrated, not just put down because she loses to China.

Celebrating such minor and moral victories over China is normal - hell, even if Miwa had lost to Wang Yidi but had got 3 games, it would have been progress, though doing what her teammates had already done was a leveller (and who knows whether tips for her teammates helped - these are the backdoor things never fully discussed). But Cheng's struggles to prolong her career and fight heroically and what we get is that she should retire because she is holding back talented players in her country or something like that.

Believe it or not, we have fans now that will watch Hayata fight hard against Wang Manyu, know that this is progress vs their last meeting, and then start telling Hayata to retire because Hirano, who lost 0-4 to Chen Meng, is the chance that Japan has against China and that they are sure that Miwa Harimoto will survive the struggles of becoming the #1 enemy of China.

If people didn't write this kind of stuff, I would not have the imagination required to make it up.

For my predictions so far, out of 7 matches,

Head - 5, Heart - 1 (both missed on Fan).

 

[zeio]

Oh, most people can tell the difference between speculation and reality, I will trust their judgement and accept your right and mine to draw whatever conclusions we want. But my position has always been that Hayata, Hirano. Harimoto, Ito and Ishikawa are all players working hard and doing their best and fans should not allow their desire to tell great stories distort the fact that China has been extremely hard to beat because of talent and overinvestment and that losing to China is something that should not be held against the players using imaginary evidence.

Oh, please. How many times have I read this now?

Remember how you and many here reacted when I insisted ML was not GOAT because he didn't overcome WH. Now that we know Harimoto feels the same way, who is speculating and who is stating the fact?

Once again, it's them the players that state to the mass media they want to beat China. They are inviting scrutiny from the public. Ito has also stated they, Hayata included, have not done enough against China compared to other associations. Hayata has also blamed herself for not beating CM at WTT Finals Women Nagoya 2023 when she should've been capable of doing so. Mizutani has also expressed his critical views on Harimoto, Togami and Hayata on beating China and other associations.

The KNT officials even rubbed it in their face for failing to meet expectations at WTTC 2024.

So, please.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

we should have a "who must retire list" after every TT major event.
Then we should have a grand retire list by December

 

[quanghuysk]

we should have a "who must retire list" after every TT major event.
Then we should have a grand retire list by December

Tony, pls retire

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Tony, pls retire

haha
yeah, i'm sure my name is on Zeio's list

I still have too many people to help in TT. Busy sending out 20kgs next week, and another 30kgs of donation goods maybe next month. You going to come do these work when I retire?

 

[Robin0910]

Man, WCQ tried hook serve at 9-9 in the fourth set as well. It was so predictable. He got his ass whopped with that serve tho

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

So the Harimoto family is the only ones taking on China
There must be something in the genes

at QF, it is mostly Japanese players, 5 of them and one each of Korea, Taiwan, Sweden, Puerto Rico

 

[gordonluvsu]

Now, we have a semifinal consisting of 3 chinese + 1 ethincally chinese.

Hope Harimoto gets to the final and puts up a good fight.

 

[Shine]

Man, WCQ tried hook serve at 9-9 in the fourth set as well. It was so predictable. He got his ass whopped with that serve tho

Nice, The hook serve is predictable and the placement is 95% to the forehand, Wang doesn't have as much variation in serves as say Felix or Alexis. It's only the pendulum and hook. Anybody that complains is simply doing a terrible job at preparing for a predictable serve.

 

[Shine]

The fifth set was an exercise in shutting down the forehand with the short ball.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Now, we have a semifinal consisting of 3 chinese + 1 ethincally chinese.

Hope Harimoto gets to the final and puts up a good fight.

imagine if both wins it
it could be a record that would never be broken

 

[blahness]

Nice, The hook serve is predictable and the placement is 95% to the forehand, Wang doesn't have as much variation in serves as say Felix or Alexis. It's only the pendulum and hook. Anybody that complains is simply doing a terrible job at preparing for a predictable serve.

The problem is deciphering the spin. It is just becoming a guessing game in terms of deciphering the spin (sidetop, sideunder?) with so much information hidden from the receiver...

 

[Shine]

The problem is deciphering the spin. It is just becoming a guessing game in terms of deciphering the spin (sidetop, sideunder?) with so much information hidden from the receiver...

It's mostly topspin though, the Japanese already figured that out.

 

[kindof99]

FZD looks down old without much fighting spirit, maybe something personal just happened , like a girl friend?

 

[kindof99]

Man, WCQ tried hook serve at 9-9 in the fourth set as well. It was so predictable. He got his ass whopped with that serve tho

JWJ didn’t win because WCQ didn’t serve many flagship hook serves.

 

[kindof99]

FZD looks down old without much fighting spirit, maybe something personal just happened , like a girl friend?

Alexis Lebrun: I approve this.

 

[NextLevel]

Oh, please. How many times have I read this now?

Remember how you and many here reacted when I insisted ML was not GOAT because he didn't overcome WH. Now that we know Harimoto feels the same way, who is speculating and who is stating the fact?

Once again, it's them the players that state to the mass media they want to beat China. They are inviting scrutiny from the public. Ito has also stated they, Hayata included, have not done enough against China compared to other associations. Hayata has also blamed herself for not beating CM at WTT Finals Women Nagoya 2023 when she should've been capable of doing so. Mizutani has also expressed his critical views on Harimoto, Togami and Hayata on beating China and other associations.

The KNT officials even rubbed it in their face for failing to meet expectations at WTTC 2024.

So, please.

Harimoto is entiled to his opinion as are many others, and I can see the value in his opinion. It is always difficult to compare across eras, but just by every statistical metric we use to quantify careers in the modern era, ML is the GOAT. You can argue it away all you want, Harimoto is entitled to his opinions, but that's the bottom line. Of course statistics have their limitations when comparing across eras, and I have argued this to NDH on another thread why Sampras has a right to be called a GOAT and whether ML could have played the way he did in an era dominated by hidden serves and the smaller ball with maximum spin. Or whether his repeated failures against Wang Hao should define his career vs ZJK's successes (and ML's successes against ZJK). But by dominance relative to titles and match records, there is really no argument.

I won't bother to debate the idea that because an athlete takes responsibility for the consequences of his actions, the public is allowed to take a caricatured view of such responsibility as fact. Of course, they are inviting scrutiny from the public. That is what being a public figure means. They get paid well for it in many cases. The disagreement isn't over scrutiny, the disagreement is over the details about how to judge the players. When the player who has more potential is losing 0-4 to the worse player and the player who has less potential is taking a game off the better player, we have to ask what this potential really is.

 

[FIXPOINT]

 

[FIXPOINT]

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Face it, zeio. No one here on TTD is buying your Hayata is dumb and should retire narrative. Perhaps you'll have more luck on Tieba.