I bought a Viscaria as a begginer. Here's what it did to me and my thoughts on the subject.

[PoorPingPong&PianoPlayer]

Don't know. Ma Lin Carbon was a slow carbon so I ended up picking an all wood blade for its feeling. And Tibhar Stratus Powerwood had good reviews on it. I played with that blade for 3-4 years. I like it!

Do you mean Ma Lin Carbon or Ma Lin Soft Carbon, please? I wouldn't say that Ma Lin Carbon is slow.

 

[Jan_]

Do you mean Ma Lin Carbon or Ma Lin Soft Carbon, please? I wouldn't say that Ma Lin Carbon is slow.

Ma lin carbon isn't that fast, but ma lin soft carbon is straight up slow.

 

[PoorPingPong&PianoPlayer]

Ma lin carbon isn't that fast, but ma lin soft carbon is straight up slow.

You missed the point of my question. Tibhar Stratus Powerwood is OFF-. Ma Lin Carbon is OFF. I wonder why somebody would resign from OFF blade in favor of OFF- blade stating that speed reason. The explanation could be they tried Ma Lin Soft Carbon instead.

 

[Jan_]

You missed the point of my question. Tibhar Stratus Powerwood is OFF-. Ma Lin Carbon is OFF. I wonder why somebody would resign from OFF blade in favor of OFF- blade stating that speed reason. The explanation could be they tried Ma Lin Soft Carbon instead.

For the same reason that I left the viscaria for 3 years and played with clipper. More control and feel, development of technique and consistency in matches. Could be many more reasons.

 

[PoorPingPong&PianoPlayer]

For the same reason that I left the viscaria for 3 years and played with clipper. More control and feel, development of technique and consistency in matches. Could be many more reasons.

To be honest, I'm much more interested in JJ Ng's feedback rather than your hypothetical thoughts. No offense.

 

[Sims]

I got my Viscaria in my second year of playing.

I used a Adidas premade for about 6~8 months when I first started playing and because I was playing quite a bit the rubbers gave out. I got a Donic Persson Power AR Senso V1 with china/jap hard hybrid rubbers for about 35 euros for the blade and 15 bucks for both the rubbers, my coach's recommendation and started playing.

After a year I had played some defense, that I didn't like, and got a pair of Rozena. Hated how they played on the Donic, it felt hollow and inconsistent, I wanted a blade with a big sweet spot that would have consistent contact, so after a few more months I found a good deal on a new Viscaria, it was on sale, and I bought it without knowing much, other that my coach saying it was not a blade for my level. I got it, glued the Rozenas on and started playing with no problem. Took me a week to get used to it, I fell in love with the balance it had and if I hadn't treated it so bad and hadn't got damaged, I would still use it.

But covid hit and I didn't play for some 7~8 months, when I went to play I couldn’t control it, I bought a Clipper to develop some feeling but ended up liking it, kept it for a year, then bought my bestie's Stiga Intensity NCT on a great price and played with it until now, about 1,5 year.

Now I want to get back to the original plan, BTY outer alc but the Viscaria is badly damaged. I sat down and fixed it by using super glue and wood pieces, and filling what’s missing with a glue and sawdust mixture. Then I sanded everything down to make it flat and even and it was done. The blade looked like it survived the great war, ww2 and the cold war, then came out of it with a bunch of scars like damn Rambo.

Funny part is that it plays like brand new, it’s completely even and flat. Now I’m scared to use it because I have a connection with that blade. I don't want to damage it again.

So here I am, 6 years after first buying my Viscaria, finding out that blade is now 170 euros in my local shop, same price with Boll alc, me wanting to try a straight handle having realized that all European pros use straight almost exclusively and debating if I should get a Boll alc with the nice thick and square straight handle, or another Viscaria with the nice thick squared flare.

I’m leaning towards the TBALC because I don’t like buying same blades and I feel like I want to see what it has to offer. The only case I don’t buy the boll is if the st handle doesn’t fit in my hand, or if the weight is too much or little. I’ll go to the shop and see how I like it.

So 6 years after buying my baby, and I’m kinda crawling back for round two. That’s what good equipment does.

To answer the obvious question, did it affect me negatively getting a carbon blade so early on?

No, it fit my style and I put in the work to quickly advance and control it. After the Rozena I also put Hurricane 3 on the forehand and Baracuda on the backhand, so I had a bit more control, to the point where I had no problem playing with it, and it showed in tournaments, I did well and got a few medals. If you’re thinking of doing the same thing and are confident in what you are looking for, do it. I recommend the Viscaria because it’s a softer outer carbon blade with the carbon engaging linearly and consistently, making it predictable and easy to understand. Inner carbon blades tend to have a hard kick when the carbon activates making them a bit more unpredictable on the low level. TB spirit is also another good blade, I played with it a bit a few years back, I guess the TB alc too since they are supposed to be identical, but they are a bit harder from what I remember.

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Sorry bro. Starting with a Viscaria as a beginner definitely hinders development even if you don't recognise it immediately.
It seems you did recognise it when you came back after months and couldn't control it, the strokes were not ingrained enough in muscle memory and I can't believe for a second that you wouldnt have been playing at less than 50% of that blades capabilities with incomplete strokes.
Beginners starting with hard fast carbon blades is a terrible idea. It always makes the strokes more difficult to learn and I've never seen anyone learn it in 12mths.
Advising others to try this as beginners is really awful advice.
The strange part is your coach told you it was a blade above your lvl you ignored him.
I basically do not understand this story 😂

 

[JJ Ng]

To be honest, I'm much more interested in JJ Ng's feedback rather than your hypothetical thoughts. No offense.

Sorry this question got buried in the forum and I never answered your question.

It is the regular Ma Lin Carbon. I still have it in my house somewhere.

I have not played with Ma Lin Carbon for a few years. If I recall, Stratus Powerwood was just as fast as Ma Lin Carbon. I did just check TT11's website. Yes Stratus Powerwood is OFF- and Ma Lin Carbon is OFF. However, TT11 or all the retailers just slap on the rating given to them by the manufacturer. So you really have to try a blade on your own and decide what is a better fit. Stratus Powerwood, once I put rubbers on it, felt like a better fit so I bought like six of Stratus Powerwood and started putting various rubbers on it to EJ and find what I liked the most. You know, I even put long pips on one of the Stratus Powerwood just to fool around at the club when I felt like play with long pips on that day.

I EJ to have fun and to improve.

Because everyone's feel for the blade and for the rubber is different, I don't really delve into people's equipment feedback on this forum that much anymore.

For example, right now I can confidently say that my BH works the best, in real game situation, with C-1 or EL-P on the my BH. I can block aggressively and use them to open loop on backspin. However, I still have Barracuda blue (yes I wanted a blue rubber!) and have Accuda S2 pink (yes I wanted a pink rubber!) on two other blades so I take them out to fool around in doubles or just generally practicing backhand-to-backhand. Are Barracuda and Accuda S2 good enough for me? Yes. Would I use either rubber on my backhand for tournament? No, I would not. But since I bought them, I need to wear them down....

 

[PoorPingPong&PianoPlayer]

I EJ to have fun and to improve.

My taste. I played Tibhar Fibre Feeling + Tibhar Grass Spezial 2000 + Adler II for many years. Badly. Then had some break. One year ago I returned and decided that I need to change my play style. I tried a few wood blades and understood that Fibre Feeling is quite unique glass fibre blade, and started to like it even more. In the first EJ iteration I replaced Adler by 802-40 and was shocked how easy and funny it's for me to play some SP. In the second iteration I replaced Grass Spezial by some promising MP, which I didn't like at all. Maybe I didn't understand how to play with MP, but it was no fun, so in the end I replaced it by Monkey with a dampening sponge and here's my old mistress with botox injections Fun factor 99.666%🤘

 

[Jan_]

To be honest, I'm much more interested in JJ Ng's feedback rather than your hypothetical thoughts. No offense.

Non taken, you don't have to aknowledge my thoughts, get outta my sub.

 

[Jan_]

Sorry bro. Starting with a Viscaria as a beginner definitely hinders development even if you don't recognise it immediately.
It seems you did recognise it when you came back after months and couldn't control it, the strokes were not ingrained enough in muscle memory and I can't believe for a second that you wouldnt have been playing at less than 50% of that blades capabilities with incomplete strokes.
Beginners starting with hard fast carbon blades is a terrible idea. It always makes the strokes more difficult to learn and I've never seen anyone learn it in 12mths.
Advising others to try this as beginners is really awful advice.
The strange part is your coach told you it was a blade above your lvl you ignored him.
I basically do not understand this story 😂

It's simple really. I never had issues racing cars in the same way I didn't have issues playing with carbon. It's up to you as a person, some can't handle 100hp, others can get something powerfull and with a strong mind learn it inside and out, same here. Carbon isn't the devil, control it.

 

[ben1229]

Why not a vis for beginners? I don't get why some ppl say it's too fast or something, you can't play with it doesn't means others can't. As op said he bought it after a year, not beginner anymore tho.

 

[Sims]

It's simple really. I never had issues racing cars in the same way I didn't have issues playing with carbon. It's up to you as a person, some can't handle 100hp, others can get something powerfull and with a strong mind learn it inside and out, same here. Carbon isn't the devil, control it.

Ok so let's suppose you're an exceptional talent (altho 'probably' not) and somehow you defy your coaches to prove them wrong (which I doubt) and somehow fast carbon blades are the best for you after 1 yr (highly unlikely). It's almost certain (as in 99.9%) that you'd be a better player if you had used a softer/slower blade and worked up to a hard fast blade like Viscaria.
But ok, your in the 0.01%, great for you but recommending this course to other beginners is bad advice.
Then the confusion comes where you're even contradicting yourself in your story (which is why I'm not really sure what you're actually saying) because although the thread title and advice is 'Visca for beginners' you go on to say that after coming back you had to drop the Viscaria and play a Clipper for a year to develop some feeling follower by another Stiga for 1.5yrs.

Is your advice to beginners then to buy a carbon blade and put it away for 3 yrs and play clipper so they can learn to use the faster blade, like the coaches advise??
I don't mean to be a pratt here but I've read your post twice and it kinda seems to go in circles.

 

[Sims]

Why not a vis for beginners? I don't get why some ppl say it's too fast or something, you can't play with it doesn't means others can't. As op said he bought it after a year, not beginner anymore tho.

You don't get why ppl say it's too fast for beginners? Like really?
If you can do full looping (arm whip) strokes with Viscaria and hit the table more often than not, be in position, footwork, balance, accuracy, anticipation etc etc etc and everything else that's coached over years and years, and do it as a beginner with a carbon blade then I look fwd to seeing you in the Olympics 😉
Seriously tho, anyone can 'play' with a carbon blade, but can a beginner really actually PLAY with a carbon blade?
Besides which I'm also not sure if OP is a beginner anymore by the time they went back to it, Adidas for 8 mths, Stigas for 3 yrs cos Viscaria admittedly too fast... confusing.
So it seems to me the OP is contradicting themselves and what I take from the OPs words (not my opinion on the subject) is that Viscaria was actually too fast to begin with 😂

Anyway, only real point I have is I don't believe that it's good advice for beginners to start with Viscaria or similar and still expect to advance as quickly as possible 🤷

 

[Jan_]

Ok so let's suppose you're an exceptional talent (altho 'probably' not) and somehow you defy your coaches to prove them wrong (which I doubt) and somehow fast carbon blades are the best for you after 1 yr (highly unlikely). It's almost certain (as in 99.9%) that you'd be a better player if you had used a softer/slower blade and worked up to a hard fast blade like Viscaria.
But ok, your in the 0.01%, great for you but recommending this course to other beginners is bad advice.
Then the confusion comes where you're even contradicting yourself in your story (which is why I'm not really sure what you're actually saying) because although the thread title and advice is 'Visca for beginners' you go on to say that after coming back you had to drop the Viscaria and play a Clipper for a year to develop some feeling follower by another Stiga for 1.5yrs.

Is your advice to beginners then to buy a carbon blade and put it away for 3 yrs and play clipper so they can learn to use the faster blade, like the coaches advise??
I don't mean to be a pratt here but I've read your post twice and it kinda seems to go in circles.

I'm not a talent. In the same way that I manage throttle I manage power. Never did I say or recommend people to start with carbon blades. I said do whatever you want and whatever you like cause it's a sport we play for fun. Open your eyes and stop putting words in me I never said, good? Good.

 

[Sims]

It seems to me that you actually do not know what you are saying.

You wrote that getting a carbon blade so early on had no negative effect, even though you had to actually play clipper for 3yrs to learn to control it and then you literally say that if anyone is thinking of doing the same thing that you recommend the Viscaria.

I've read your post 3 times now, I don't think you've read it at all!

 

[rbtitco]

It's simple really. I never had issues racing cars in the same way I didn't have issues playing with carbon. It's up to you as a person, some can't handle 100hp, others can get something powerfull and with a strong mind learn it inside and out, same here. Carbon isn't the devil, control it.

i feel the same. I always imagine some natural athlete kid in like the phillipines or something getting roasted by wealthy old eternal white belt EJ's on these forums.
"Youre not allowed to play until you can secure a korbel, son! Go home." lol
Sometimes, we need to focus on training more than equipment, practice matters most.

 

[PoorPingPong&PianoPlayer]

Why not a vis for beginners? I don't get why some ppl say it's too fast or something, you can't play with it doesn't means others can't. As op said he bought it after a year, not beginner anymore tho.

Why? Because system simply doesn't like it. System always hates any exception. Start with a slow blade. After an year or two, try some little bit faster blade. Oh my god, you made two mistakes today, go back and try a little bit faster rubber instead. We call it 'business'. And no coach would love a guy, who doesn't fit to their well settled processes. It's not unique situation that coach is a shop owner at the same time. So... Buy more. Buy more now. Buy. And be happy. [THX 1138]

 

[BadHoney]

My coach suggested faster equipment at day1 after saw me used all around blade with Stiga Airoc
Right now i try Andro Rasantor C48 for 2 hours but it a bit too slow for me, i go back to Victas V22 immediately

Depend on each coach may be

 

[vossi39]

My 2 cents.

Being a coach is like being a doctor. If the people you train, do not trust your judgement, than they need to move to a different coach.
AND....With I-Net the number of people going to a doctor, already knowing what the diagnosis will be and which are totally disappointed if the doctor disagrees are raising.

Same in coaching. People will go to forum, getting feedback from people, that have never seen them playing and go back to the coach telling him/her that they are an exception and need to be treated differently.
Its so tempting to feel special. Nobody wants to be an average guy.

But as a coach I would no longer argue with these people anymore. Take whatever bat you like and I will gladly help you master it. Might take a whole lot longer, might frustrate you more than needed and might not make you a good player after all. But it is your choice, your money, your time.

 

[PickleRick]

It's a fairly pointless discussion. Everyone should obviously do what they feel like doing. I can only answer from my own perspective. I myself have been playing table tennis for 25 years and my level is around 2100 USATT if the conversion tables of rankings are to be believed. When I played at a much lower level, I used faster equipment than the one I use now. It was fun at times until I played against higher levels. I couldn't return any serve decently and the higher spin level caused a festival of errors on my part.

I also notice this now when I play against people of a much lower level than myself. Those with ridiculously fast equipment can do absolutely nothing against me. I have no fun because they make one mistake after another. Then when they do make a quick top spin, it usually comes back to them so quickly that the point is also over. At least players of the same level with slower equipment can return balls so I have to finish the point myself. So I always advise taking slower rubbers to such players. On the one hand for my own playing pleasure when I play against them and on the other hand because I sincerely believe that ball control and spin is much more important than the speed of your stroke until you really play at top level.