Shakehand Grip Variations

Ok, let's take it from your last post, i think it is about that my unstable grip, or maybe because the placing of my grip is not as the coach or many players are using, so it is like they all want me to use same grip as theirs so i can gain full control on my blade, but is that true that if i use or duplicate their grips then i will be in a control with my blade?

So if i will suffer with my grip not matching theirs, should i stop training then until i solve this issue first?

I don't want to feel that i am left behind so so far from those players just because of my wrong grip, also i was playing with this grip for long time and i managed to get good playing style with it even if is wrong, and i may change this grip but this will take me another long months or even a year or 2 until i am fully adjusted to a new grip as theirs, then i will be wasted a lot of money on the coach trying to teach me the correct grip before he starting to teach me the game, i just barely got back to the game and from beginning many wants me to be good and improve in no time, and i wasn't really thinking about improving my skills or being a good player just yet, but sounds people care about me more than myself.

Anyway, i feel if the coach and some players keep commenting about my grip i may give up playing tennis as they will just focus on teaching even in front many others which will embarrassing me in front of others even beginners with correct grip, and the coach [he is new person i met him weeks ago and he wanted me to pay him to teach me as he needed money] may help but maybe he will do that in the slow way and have more income for him, i prefer to waste or spend a lot of money and enjoy over than spending for coaching and i feel forced to listen and follow instructions and then i don't get enjoy at all until several months when my skills will improve then i get enjoy again, but i may give up and my situations will stop me playing TT before i become better, so i really don't know what i can do about my grip so i don't go uder long process with him or others to teach me.

Killerspintt said:

A grip is something dynamic, it's not something static, pictures don't show the dynamic of a grip and are not really relevant (unless a grip is obviously wrong).
But try to follow the process of your coach, depending of the situation it is really useless to speak about it here in fact.

Think of it like as it was mathematics, if the situation is so bad that your coach considers that the situation is is "Tareq doesn't even know how to count passed 10", it is useless here to explain you infinitesimal calculations (calculus)

Depdending of the mess of your grip, it can be a good thing to teach you to have a strong static grip first.........

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I think a lot of us OVERTHINK the grip, but it is important that we understand fundamentals and and be sound for what are doing. Awareness is good, and after time, we have to adapt the fundamentals to suit our styles and goals. DYNAMIC is a good term I like for the grip.

In other fronts, there is the collar choke grip, the blood choke grip, the windpipe choke grip and a few others. Use what will allow you to function in battle effectively & intuitively.

Somewhere on this thread or somewhere else recently, I saw someone post that they could do a good BH with essentially only hte thumb and first finger used to hold the bat, the remaining fingers free, kinda similar to a loose C-Pen grip.

I did 5 in a row SUPER spinny BH loops (that blocked out and well long, the loop was really loaded) from underspin (3rd ball opener vs a pushed return) in a different Korean club one time. I showed them slowly what I did to generate the bat speed first in super slow step, then at slow speed, then at combat speed.

One of the players noted that I was barely gripping the bat. I showed the players and the coach/owner of the club that I started the stroke with a normal grip (but held loose) then on the swing forward, I really loosened the grip on the remaining three fingers so that they were not even on the handle, the result was I used only the thumb and finger to hold the bat and make the torque and bat speed at impact.

The COACH saw that and shook his head, he never taught such a grip, but to be fair to him, most Korean coaches are old school and do not teach the BH loop a lot, players discover how to do it later in there TT life, MUCH later, like when or if they ever make Div 2 or Div 1.

SOME of my good BH loops use such a loose BH grip. When you death grip the bat, you cannot accelerate it worth a crap and have freedom of movement to add rotational force.

Some of my other BHs use an entirely different grip and philosophy/approach to hitting (Think Kim Jung Hoon and his NO to LITTLE use of wrist for BH drives close to the table)

So, what i should do? nothing or learning a new grip?

True, if i am getting used or happy with my wrong grip for a while then why not, i just get back to this sport, and maybe within the time my grip will be corrected sooner or later, so i just give it a time, i can't force myself with a new grip or say their correct grip and i become a good player suddenly, and what so funny is that when i am using my wrong grip and get the shots on table or flick or whatever stroke i do fine they sounds doesn't agree because of the grip, and once i change to their grip and miss a lot they just say it is ok, it will be fine, how? by magic?

Well, if training will make the difference then i think even with my wrong grip and right correct training and basics/fundamentals i can work fine with it, the coach or all others should worry about my basics and techniques more than just my wrong grip, for them it is like i can't learn anything with my wrong grip, is that true?

Der_Echte said:

Somewhere on this thread or somewhere else recently, I saw someone post that they could do a good BH with essentially only hte thumb and first finger used to hold the bat, the remaining fingers free, kinda similar to a loose C-Pen grip.

I did 5 in a row SUPER spinny BH loops (that blocked out and well long, the loop was really loaded) from underspin (3rd ball opener vs a pushed return) in a different Korean club one time. I showed them slowly what I did to generate the bat speed first in super slow step, then at slow speed, then at combat speed.

One of the players noted that I was barely gripping the bat. I showed the players and the coach/owner of the club that I started the stroke with a normal grip (but held loose) then on the swing forward, I really loosened the grip on the remaining three fingers so that they were not even on the handle, the result was I used only the thumb and finger to hold the bat and make the torque and bat speed at impact.

The COACH saw that and shook his head, he never taught such a grip, but to be fair to him, most Korean coaches are old school and do not teach the BH loop a lot, players discover how to do it later in there TT life, MUCH later, like when or if they ever make Div 2 or Div 1.

SOME of my good BH loops use such a loose BH grip. When you death grip the bat, you cannot accelerate it worth a crap and have freedom of movement to add rotational force.

Some of my other BHs use an entirely different grip and philosophy/approach to hitting (Think Kim Jung Hoon and his NO to LITTLE use of wrist for BH drives close to the table)

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Both my BH and forehand loops use that grip.

UpsideDownCarl,

You have an immense amount of patience with something that is pretty bizarre. IF a coach tells you to do something, you do it unless you know better. End of story.

I agree with KillerspinTT's use of the term 'relaxed ' grip, rather than 'loose' grip. Loose grip confuses players in that they think of the bat possibly flying out of their hand.
There are all kinds of grips that players use and they are always changing and modifying their grip over the years. But some grips are outright bad even though the player reaches an advanced level.
But in the end, focus on grip is a bit of process orientation rather than outcome. If the player can do the X/H exercise to a good level, then his grip is basically OK no matter what it is.

Everyday is a learning day.
One thing I picked up from the video was when Ben noticed that his index finger was not flat against the bat. I checked mine and I do the same thing. It means that pressure is applied by the finger tip only. I think the flat finger approach aids control. Maybe this explains why some players move their index finger to be across the centre of the bat on forehand shots. They are instinctively adding control to their stroke.
Some robot practice beckons.

NextLevel said:

Both my BH and forehand loops use that grip.

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I have very loose (or relaxed) grips for B on several looping kind of shots. The grip isn't so loose that bat will fly out, it is actually very stable and the "Loosening" of the grip comes from being relaxed, but you gotta do the "loosening" of the grip during the swing and before impact for that kind of BH loop I do.

Some of my other BH shots have a rigid grip with little use of the wrist and very firm grip, much like KJH shows on his vids.

On FH wing, I have different grips too, but I am not Rambo enough like Next Level to use that Thumb & Forefinger grip on my FH shots, maybe on a soft over the table FH, but that is about it. I have a relaxed start that allows me to generate a lot of bat speed and I really firm up the grip just before impact to get that solid Smack kinda shot Kim Jung Hoon advocates.

There is NO WAY I could have one of those firm solid grips for BH and have any freedom of movement of wrist and make spinny shots vs slow balls. That kind of firm grip is good for producing spin only at mid to far distance vs a faster incoming ball and a longer swing.

Yup Carl, Dan is gunna ban you for life (Haha, that rhymes) for lousey writing and advice dispensing.

Tinykin said:

I agree with KillerspinTT's use of the term 'relaxed ' grip, rather than 'loose' grip. Loose grip confuses players in that they think of the bat possibly flying out of their hand.
There are all kinds of grips that players use and they are always changing and modifying their grip over the years. But some grips are outright bad even though the player reaches an advanced level.
But in the end, focus on grip is a bit of process orientation rather than outcome. If the player can do the X/H exercise to a good level, then his grip is basically OK no matter what it is.

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A lot of what he wrote made sense and he took only a few words to say it, unlike me, who likes to write walls of texts just on general principles.

As I said earlier, I really liked his use of the word DYNAMIC, good brevity, conveys several meanings that directly apply, good choice of word. And English is likely NOT his first language.

TareqPhoto said:

So, what i should do? nothing or learning a new grip?

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Tareq, a Table Tennis Warrior should do what a Table Tennis Warrior should do. When a Warrior doesn't know what to do, he makes medicine and will know what he should do.

We are Warriors, you can talk to us. We will say what is right, or at least what we think is right based on our training and experience, which collectively is pretty extensive, not so much as a pro's, but very extensive.

However, you gotta be careful, once you tickle our funny bone, we can say all manner of crazy stuff and the game is on. You gotta have a really good bullcrap filter to sort out the silliness and focus on the good stuff we say. We let out a lot or really good nuggets for the price of free, but you gotta be on your toes and understand wit to get there, or you will REALLY be turned around.

Judgment is the operative word here, and when we start out our TT careers, we don't have a lot of it, so we gotta trust until we build that kind of judgment that comes from common sense, knowledge, experience, failure, and re-adjustment. It is a never-ending process and we shouldn't be making light of it, but sometimes, a Warrior has got to be "loose" do, it is all for your benefit and anyone who looks upon our posts with any good bullcrap filter to take home the good stuff.

You got a coach, who COULD be a really good person and shoots straight and knows the Warrior Way and its code. If you have no one else around you, I suggest you follow what coach is teaching, do it for a while longer that you want, then see where you are at and examine if it all adds up. Over time, with common sense, you will know if coach is doing it right or pulling on your leg something fierce.

You can count on us to tell it to you like it is when you ask and clown around if you get silly.

Well, i just had one day training with the coach and still didn't get into serious sessions yet, that one day he was showing me al the strokes and gave me some time for each stroke to guide me and show me the right way to do it and correct my wrong physical or timing problems, from this he can think how he can improve each stroke for me, but with al those strokes he keep telling me to correct my grip.

Tomorrow should have a schedule with him as he asked me, so i am not sure what he will show me, all strokes again as repeating or start with one stroke or he will get busy on correcting my grip before he start any individual technique or whatever, i don't know if he will accept my wrong grip to his opinion and focus on other things, otherwise if i find difficulty on focus on training because of my wrong grip then i will ask him to stop training me until i can adjust the grip he asked me, i can't keep paying him just for one issue, if this issue is the main key for me to master other strokes then i will work hard with or without him to correct my grip, but if the grip is not that much big deal then better not waste time and money on him for this grip.

Again, the funny thing as i said before is, if i use wrong grip and do the stroke fine they don't like or agree with it, if i use the correct/right grip and miss the strokes they just keep saying "It's ok, you do fine, keep going", so is it the grip that i should train for or the strokes and techniques? it sounds the coach and other don't want to teach or play with me until i correct my grip, i am talking about coaches and top players who becoming my friends, other players who re intermediate or lower level don't care how my grip is.

TareqPhoto said:

Well, i just had one day training with the coach and still didn't get into serious sessions yet, that one day he was showing me al the strokes and gave me some time for each stroke to guide me and show me the right way to do it and correct my wrong physical or timing problems, from this he can think how he can improve each stroke for me, but with al those strokes he keep telling me to correct my grip.

Tomorrow should have a schedule with him as he asked me, so i am not sure what he will show me, all strokes again as repeating or start with one stroke or he will get busy on correcting my grip before he start any individual technique or whatever, i don't know if he will accept my wrong grip to his opinion and focus on other things, otherwise if i find difficulty on focus on training because of my wrong grip then i will ask him to stop training me until i can adjust the grip he asked me, i can't keep paying him just for one issue, if this issue is the main key for me to master other strokes then i will work hard with or without him to correct my grip, but if the grip is not that much big deal then better not waste time and money on him for this grip.

Again, the funny thing as i said before is, if i use wrong grip and do the stroke fine they don't like or agree with it, if i use the correct/right grip and miss the strokes they just keep saying "It's ok, you do fine, keep going", so is it the grip that i should train for or the strokes and techniques? it sounds the coach and other don't want to teach or play with me until i correct my grip, i am talking about coaches and top players who becoming my friends, other players who re intermediate or lower level don't care how my grip is.

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This is very common when someone is trying to teach you proper technique. Most people, rather than do it exactly as the coach says they should and miss, prefer to do what they are comfortable doing and land the ball on the table. But the truth is that no one knows how they learn. The coach is showing you something that if you do it, can help you in ways you cannot understand yet. But you are doing what you know will help you now, but you can't see how it is preventing you from getting better tomorrow.

I watched a coaching session yesterday when a coach told a student to use his loop vs topspin stroke to attack backspin for 5 1 minute sessions of multiball. Believe it or not, without any technical instruction on how to loop backspin, this student was looping the backspin ball by the 4th session. Of course, he started looping the topspin ball off the table. So the coach told him to alternate sessions when on his own between backspin and topspin and that eventually, his brain would master the read and the stroke much better.

Tareq, you are a pretty smart guy. You need to trust your ability to change and learn. The coaches know what they are saying and doing. Don't let your stubborness and your comfort with who you are prevent you from becoming the person you can be.

UpSideDownCarl said:

The thing is, if you aren't used to the grip, you may do a lot well and the ball still goes out. But the as you keep doing it with the new grip, the ball will start going in if you just keep that grip. So letting yourself mess up and hit the ball out but keep the new grip and get used to it and you will start getting the ball in. But if you keep switching back to the old grip you will never get used to the new one.


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People don't trust the learning process because they don't understand it. I tell people all the time - just do the stroke and let it do what it does. Your body will figure it out. Your attempts to control it at the beginning will only frustrate the process - the control should come at the end when your body has experience with the stroke.

I understand that, i was planning to stick with the new correct grip and keep using it even if i miss a lot, within the time i may get more in control with the new grip.