Ittf stupiiiiiiiiiid ranking

TTFrenzy · Jan 5, 2018

NextLevel said:
If Ma Long and Fan Zhendong had not protested at China Open and they didn't have to deal with National Games etc., this could very well have happened. But because of that and a few other things, we have the current situation. And by the rules, Dima is #1. And if you look at the top 10, it is full of good players who played well last year. If Ma Long has a good year, he will go back to #1 too.

What some people who are complaining will not tell you is that they are upset that Ma Long's streak at #1 Is over and this is driving more of their criticisms than anything else.

EEExactly and they will all stop whining in 3-4-5 months from now. I mean its funny they really care about how unfair the new ranking system is , they should gather money to help poor athletes and talents that are now wasted because of the new rangking system#

ding ning will have to play qualification rounds omg what a drama !!

NextLevel · Jan 5, 2018

rainneverever said:
lol, what else can he say? I told him ML would not be #1 under old ranking system and he still mind-reads that I "complain" about the new ranking system because ML #1 streak is over. I also analyzed DN's ranking from hidden in Nov 2017 (#2 if not hidden) to #3 in Dec 2008 when losing to Chen Xingtong in Swedish Open. Simply put, to get more ranking points under old system one has to attend and NOT to lose to lower ranked players. Under new system, one can easily withdraw a tournament like Dima did for Hungrarian Open and someone can walk over easily because getting to next round does not give you much more points and there is no penalty for W.O.

You are confusing the difference between being #1 and #2 with the difference between being #1 and #7. With the old system Ma Long only had to regain bonus points and he kept his rating. Now he has to play and win many events. He can no longer maintain high ranking in a cherry picked schedule and with advancing age, who knows?

Maybe I was too general in my original wording but the funny thing is that you responded. I wonder why that is.

Atas Newton · Jan 5, 2018

NextLevel said:
Entirely reasonable and graceful.
There are many events in the year, all you are required to play is 8 to have a full ranking. Only a few Japanese players play every event. At least he played the World Tour Finals, where was Ma Long?

ML hadn't participated in enough WT events or was it a rhetorical question? I'm saying that when a world #1 doesn't want to participate in the competition fearing he'd lose his spot - it looks a bit meh.

NextLevel · Jan 5, 2018

TTFrenzy said:
EEExactly and they will all stop whining in 3-4-5 months from now. I mean its funny they really care about how unfair the new ranking system is , they should gather money to help poor athletes and talents that are now wasted because of the new rangking system#

ding ning will have to play qualification rounds omg what a drama !!

Yeah. Gasp. She actually has to play regularly to maintain her international ranking. What a shame...

Maybe more people should have been in America in 2016 to see what the withdrawals of CNT did to the event. Maybe they will appreciate how I feel a tad bit more. This change may not work but I think it is a reasonable start.

Atas Newton · Jan 5, 2018

NextLevel said:
With the old system Ma Long only had to regain bonus points and he kept his rating. Now he has to play and win many events. He can no longer maintain high ranking in a cherry picked schedule and with advancing age, who knows?

not sure if I follow. So ML can't cherry pick his schedule and that's good, but that differs from Dima withdrawing how?

NextLevel · Jan 5, 2018

Atas Newton said:
ML hadn't participated in enough WT events or was it a rhetorical question? I'm saying that when a world #1 doesn't want to participate in the competition fearing he'd lose his spot - it looks a bit meh.

Lol. They pick the last 8 best results so it had nothing to do with losing his spot. Do better.

rainneverever · Jan 5, 2018

People who complain about the new ranking system in this forum spent more time analyzing how #900+ Truls Moregard can play senior events than analyzing how ML can regain #1.
You ignore all the in-depth discussions and take for granted that people complain the new system because Dima being #1, or ML no longer #1. And you asked me why I responded to your mind-reading?

NextLevel said:
You are confusing the difference between being #1 and #2 with the difference between being #1 and #7. With the old system Ma Long only had to regain bonus points and he kept his rating. Now he has to play and win many events. He can no longer maintain high ranking in a cherry picked schedule and with advancing age, who knows?

Maybe I was too general in my original wording but the funny thing is that you responded. I wonder why that is.

Atas Newton · Jan 5, 2018

NextLevel said:
Lol. They pick the last 8 best results so it had nothing to do with losing his spot. Do better.

wouldn't it make the list of the last 8 best results some time in the future? When the past event fall off the list? That's what I figured.

Atas Newton · Jan 5, 2018

rainneverever said:
People who complain about the new ranking system in this forum spent more time analyzing how #900+ Truls Moregard can play senior events than analyzing how ML can regain #1.
You ignore all the in-depth discussions and take for granted that people complain the new system because Dima being #1, or ML no longer #1. And you asked me why I responded to your mind-reading?

chill rainneverever, I take it NextLevel is trolling you a bit at this point.

NextLevel · Jan 5, 2018

Atas Newton said:
I did my best in trying to be objective while reading your discussion and I honestly see no bias in rainneverever's arguments. I think they bring solid points.

They bring solid points without deferring to the fact that things evolve. The ITTF will have to make changes over time in response to the details of the new system.

NextLevel · Jan 5, 2018

Atas Newton said:
wouldn't it make the list of the last 8 best results some time in the future? When the past event fall off the list? That's what I figured.

Only if there wasn't another event with a better result to replace it. Try again.

Atas Newton · Jan 5, 2018

NextLevel said:
They bring solid points without deferring to the fact that things evolve. The ITTF will have to make changes over time in response to the details of the new system.

I mean some changes that the system needs are so obvious they should've been made before it was implemented. That's what pisses people off. Like give lower ranked players some time to adjust their position under the new ranking system before screwing them over. E.g. make their current ranking a weighted average of their old ranking and would've-been-new ranking.

Atas Newton · Jan 5, 2018

NextLevel said:
Only if there wasn't another event with a better result to replace it. Try again.

why do you assume there'd be one? Suppose Dima got to a 1/4 final, are you sure he'd easily make semi-final 8 times to override that?

NextLevel · Jan 5, 2018

rainneverever said:
People who complain about the new ranking system in this forum spent more time analyzing how #900+ Truls Moregard can play senior events than analyzing how ML can regain #1.
You ignore all the in-depth discussions and take for granted that people complain the new system because Dima being #1, or ML no longer #1. And you asked me why I responded to your mind-reading?

I might have said this elsewhere but having 15 year olds on the tour should not be the priority of the ITTF. In fact, Some of this is what hurts the professionalism in our sport where many rich kids play the sport for a while and get gaudy rankings, then go to college and leave the sport behind. If taking care of such kids is a priority for the sport, the ITTF can provide a path. But I think it is more important to look at what the professional tour needs to function. Prodigies should play the professional tour when they are ready to commit to be professionals - this is my view. And someone like Truls can play the senior tour if he is ready to commit.

NextLevel · Jan 5, 2018

Atas Newton said:
why do you assume there'd be one? Suppose Dima got to a 1/4 final, are you sure he'd easily make semi-final 8 times to override that?

Then he isn't hurting his ranking because it would be a fat 0 and not the Hungary Open. Just like Ma Long has a fat zero and no eighth event at the current time. Try again.

NextLevel · Jan 5, 2018

Atas Newton said:
I mean some changes that the system needs are so obvious they should've been made before it was implemented. That's what pisses people off. Like give lower ranked players some time to adjust their position under the new ranking system before screwing them over. E.g. make their current ranking a weighted average of their old ranking and would've-been-new ranking.

Some of what they are doing may not be as accidental as it seems but the change was announced in 2016 and rankings were declared back then so people could adjust and track results.

I don't think the current system is perfect. But I think that aspects of it are largely in the right direction.

Atas Newton · Jan 5, 2018

NextLevel said:
Then he isn't hurting his ranking because it would be a fat 0 and not the Hungary Open.

huh? What would be a fat 0? In the end the situation is as follows: the current world #1 can cherry pick his schedule and avoid any damage to his ranking. Wasn't that something you considered evil when applied to ML's 2017?

NextLevel · Jan 5, 2018

Atas Newton said:
huh? What would be a fat 0? In the end the situation is as follows: the current world #1 can cherry pick his schedule and avoid any damage to his ranking. Wasn't that something you considered evil when applied to ML's 2017?

If he played it likely wouldn't affect his ranking either. This seems hard to get across. Maybe rainneverever can explain since you seem to get her but not me.

Atas Newton · Jan 5, 2018

NextLevel said:
If he played it wouldn't affect his ranking either. This seems hard to get across. Maybe rainneverever can explain since you seem to get her but not me.

so he doesn't even need to cherry pick and his ranking is still protected? Isn't that even more evil? So much for the incentive for players to participate more I guess.

rainneverever · Jan 5, 2018

The first edition of the new ranking was made in Dec 2016 and released in late Mar 2017. At that time, WTTC and WTTTC points are valid for 2 years with 100% in the first year and 50% in the second year; OG and OG team points are valid for 4 years with 100% in the first year and 75%, 50%, 25% in the following years.
The second edition of new ranking was made in late Oct 2017. WTTC and WTTTC points are 100% for 2 years. OG and OG team points are valid for 1 year ONLY. At this point, I can argue that CNT understood the new ranking system when it was first released and ML/DN could take advantage of OG champion points. But the removal of OG points in 2nd year was a sudden and CNT could barely do anything.
There was a further change of the new ranking in late Dec 2017. Participation for WTTC now is 25, for Plat Tour 20 and Tour 15. Not sure to whom these little points help.

NextLevel said:
Some of what they are doing may not be as accidental as it seems but the change was announced in 2016 and rankings were declared back then so people could adjust and track results.

I don't think the current system is perfect. But I think that aspects of it are largely in the right direction.

Ittf stupiiiiiiiiiid ranking

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