How do we need start to build our own blade business?

hipnotic said:

I'm gonna try to build blades too, i have some experience building guitars so this should be simpler.

I would say that in terms of tools a router is mandatory, so you can cut your templates and your blades with precision. You would also need some kind of saw, chisel, etc, to sculpt the handles. To glue the layers i'm going to start with regular wood glue and then experiment with others. Oh yeah, you are going to need clamps if don't have access to a vacuum press (i don't).

For the wood, balsa is easily accessible, you have that at AKI, Leroy, etc. For the veneers is more complicated, i have a few that i managed to get from a neighbor but i would like to experiment with others but don't know where to get them. I know a place that sells veneers but they are more used in guitar building, not the common ones used in blades.

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Airoc said:

You will surely find helfpul information about the materials and tools needed.

You will then need theoretical knowledge what which veneer in which thickness will do in combination with which other veneer.

Still, the process will be one of trial and error for a long time, I suspect.

When you finally have arrived at a steady production routine of quality blades with reliable characteristics try thinking about the business part in your thread titel again.
There are quite a few blade manufacturers around, with a good reputation and extensive knowledge, and still mostly it all remains a hobby for pocket money. Which is all nice and good, but a business it is not.

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hipnotic said:

There are several companies in Portugal that sell veneers, however they are used in construction so i don't know if we are able to get them in small quantities. Also, i don't know if we are able to specify the thickness we want. Maybe the only option is to order them from the UK, i have no idea about the cost but i guess it won't be that cheap.

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Nate4s said:

Eduardo,

There are lots of blade building threads on these very forums, and Ross Leidy has an excellent one over on the OOAK forums. That would give you a good sense of whether or not you're up to the challenge.

To answer your questions about wood prices - I imagine it is different in every country/region, but in the US, I'm able to source Koto for $0.95 per square foot, Limba for around $3 per square foot. Kiri is the only core wood I can access, and the best I can do is six 12-inch x 6.5-inch x 1.25-inch boards for $59. The bandsaw I have access to allows me to cut about 5 panels from each board (so roughly $2 USD per core wood). I cannot find ayous in the US, but if I ordered from the UK I would be looking at somewhere in the area of $10 per blade just for the ayous.


Here is an extremely truncated guide to getting started:

1) Making the panels/plies for the blade:

Once you have sourced all of the materials (veneers, core woods, etc) to make your blades, you need to assemble the panels that would become your blades.

A. Decide on your glue. From what I've experienced and read from a couple others, PVA and hide glue have a tendency to warp slightly over time due to environmental changes, and PU glues are resistant to this warping (but I find them almost too hard - reducing flexibility).

B. Decide how you will press them. You can press them with clamps, or with a vacuum bag. Either way, I recommend a really hard flat surface to keep the layers perfectly aligned (granite tile works well), which can be used regardless of how you press them. Depending on the glue you use, and the type of press you're using, the amount of time you leave them in the clamp varies.


2. Making the actual blades:

Have access to tools - if you can pay a monthly or yearly fee to have access to a woodshop/maker's space, that is going to be the most affordable option.

A. Ideally, you would use a router to make additional blades from a pattern using a flush-trim router bit; however, you need to be able to make your own pattern (MDF is a good material for this), so you would best be able to do this with some type of vertical oriented sanding surface (disk sander or belt sander) and an oscillating spindle sander (for the fine curves near the handle).

B. To cut your own core-woods to the thickness you want, you would need a planer and a drum sander...and a nice bandsaw can definitely help you to be less wasteful if you're cutting/resawing from large boards.

C. For rough shaping of the handles, you can use whatever you want (I use a belt-sander, many use a router, some use hand planes). For fine shaping, I hand sand them. OSP has a handle video on youtube that shows you some of this process, including how they cut the final bevel for your thumb.


Final Thoughts:
If I were you, the first step would be to see if you can source the materials you need. The next step would be to see if you have access to equipment that will let you build them the way you want. Good luck, and don't hesitate to ask around here if you have more questions!

-Nate

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cfagyal said:

Adding on to Nate's post...

I've found for templates I much prefer getting them laser cut to any other method. I currently use Ponoko in the US. There are probably Laser cutting services in Europe that you could use as well. This way I can trace patterns, size them precisely, and know that what I sized and drew is precisely what i will get, without any user errors in cutting/sanding which can cause imperfections along the edge of the template.

I have a router and router table, with numerous different router bits for my blade making. I have 2 different flush trim bits that I use for routing blades and trimming handles. One is Whiteside's amazing Ultimate Combination Compression Trim Bit which is quite expensive, but produces extremely smooth edges. I use this on my blades. However it can be difficult to use with figured woods, so for handle trimming, and more fine detail trimming I use a smaller flush trim bit.

For Handles I use several different tools:

* For initial shaping of the handle I route them using the handle templates I have that go along with each individual blade template. I generally use the smaller flush trim bit for this, and pay careful attention to the wood grain, and route small bits at a time. Router tear-out on figured woods has destroyed a few handles right as i've been close to finishing them before, so i've learned to pay very close attention to grain as I route and this has been very beneficial.
* Once i've routed the template, I do some initial shaping with some hand planes. I've specifically found the Lie Nielsen Low Angle Rabbit Block Plane to be indispensable for some of the handle work I do. It does a great job giving me a very smooth finish, as well as helping me ensure perfectly identical edges on two different pieces of wood before I glue them together when making a complicated handle.
* I use a Freud Quadra-Cut Roundover Bit to round the edges on the handles. Quadra-Cut roundover bits use 4 blades instead of just 2, and really provides an exceptionally smooth finish. I do the rounding in very small increments to try to ensure i don't get any tearout, and pay close attention to the grain of the wood when doing rounding.
* Once all of this is done and I have the shape I want, then I use a sander to finish the process. A belt sander would be best, especially for producing the taper at the end of the handle where it meets the head of the blade. I use an orbital sander with 220, 320, 400 and 600 grit sandpaper to really fine tune to finish of the handles.

For Glues, I don't use PVA glue (Standard wood glue) Because of its water content and thus its potential to warp. I've been mostly using Polyurethane glue and Epoxy Resin (for carbon blades). I have found I quite like the feel of Polyurethane glue. I intend to start looking into Hide Glues soon though.

For clamping, I have a number of Bessey 12" REVO Parallel Bar clamps that are awesome. I use these for combined with some pieces of sheet steel that i've covered with plastic wrap. I put the glued up wood in between the pieces of steel, and then clamp it. I've found this works great, and since i've coated the steel in plastic, there is no issue of any bleed through glue sticking the wood to the clamps or the steel.

I've also bought a number of things for safety purposes. I have a hand corkscrew clamp that I use when i'm routing handles, to keep the router bit way away from my hands, given handles are small and even with a template, I don't want my hand inches from blades spinning at 10k+ rpm. I've also bought one of the Micro Jig GRR-ipper which are amazing for routing as well. If i'm routing straight handles vs flared, I generally use the fence on my router, and the gripper to hold the handle piece and guide it down the fence, keeping my hands way away from the router bit.

One comment was made about wood and humidity controlled rooms. Wood definitely can take on moisture and that can affect weight. I'd taken to, after routing a blade, I will put it between two heavy pieces of wood, and place it in the oven at 185 degrees for a few hours. 185 degrees is just below the high end of the temperature range for PU glue, so the bond won't be affected, but you could lose a few grams in weight just due to moisture in the air. Keep in mind, if you do this, but then are in a humid environment, the blade will just take on water weight after a while anyways.

Hopefully this helps. MAking it a business I feel would be quite challenging. I've sold several blades so far, but doing it by hand is time consuming, and i'd prefer to spend the time making something beautiful...to me the craftmanship and uniqueness of custom made blades (making things that no one else has made, with combinations of woods that aren't used by manufacturers, etc) is a lot of the fun with blade making. Given I have a full time job, its just a hobby for me, but one i've invested considerable money in.


Chris

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GinjaNinja said:

I think this is a good process to follow. Try making blades for yourself and then when you've reached a high enough level in terms of your understanding of blade composition and the quality of your blade making then think about a business. I'd recommend any new blade maker to study bobpuls' 'create your own blade' thread in detail. Also you can start on quite a low budget and then buy new equipment as you develop, I agree with nate's advice here.

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