Disturbing movements

I'm not sure if this rule apply or not

2.10.01.05 if an opponent obstructs the ball;

Well,couldn't see that situation addrssed in hte Laws, except the situations calling for a let. (disturbance potentially affecting outcome of point) Maybe in another are of the rules... ought to be an obvious warning.

3.4.1.5 When a player is formally warned for bad behaviour, a yellow marker shall be placed on or near the score indicator.

3.5.2 Misbehaviour
3.5.2.1 Players and coaches or other advisers shall refrain from behaviour that may unfairly affect an opponent, offend spectators or bring the sport into disrepute, such as abusive language, deliberately breaking the ball or hitting it out of the playing area, kicking the table or surrounds and disrespect of match officials.
3.5.2.2 If at any time a player, a coach or another adviser commits a serious offence the umpire shall suspend play and report immediately to the referee; for less serious offences the umpire may, on the first occasion, hold up a yellow card and warn the offender that any further offence is liable to incur penalties.

3.5.2.3 Except as provided in 3.5.2.2 and 3.5.2.5, if a player who has been warned commits a second offence in the same individual match or team match, the umpire shall award 1 point to the offender's opponent and for a further offence he shall award 2 points, each time holding up a yellow and a red card together.
3.5.2.4 If a player against whom 3 penalty points have been awarded in the same individual match or team match continues to misbehave, the umpire shall suspend play and report immediately to the referee.
3.5.2.5 If a player changes his or her racket during an individual match when it has not been damaged, the umpire shall suspend play and report to the referee.
3.5.2.6 A warning or penalty incurred by either player of a doubles pair shall apply to the pair, but not to the non-offending player in a subsequent individual match of the same team match; at the start of a doubles match the pair shall be regarded as having incurred the higher of any warnings or penalties incurred by either player in the same team match.
3.5.2.7 Except as provided in 3.5.2.2, if a coach or another adviser who has been warned commits a further offence in the same individual match or team match, the umpire shall hold up a red card and send him or her away from the playing area until the end of the team match or, in an individual event, of the individual match.
3.5.2.8 The referee shall have power to disqualify a player from a match, an event or a competition for seriously unfair or offensive behaviour, whether reported by the umpire or not; as he or she does so he or she shall hold up a red card.
3.5.2.9 If a player is disqualified from 2 matches of a team or individual event he or she shall automatically be disqualified from that team event or individual competition.
3.5.2.10 The referee may disqualify for the remainder of a competition anyone who has twice been sent away from the playing area during that competition.
3.5.2.11 Following 4 accumulated failures on any aspect of official racket testing over 48 months, a player shall be suspended for 12 months from participating in ITTF events.
3.5.2.12 If a player is disqualified from a match, event or competition for any reason, he or she shall automatically forfeit any associated title, medal, prize money or ranking points.
3.5.2.13 Cases of very serious misbehaviour shall be reported to the offender's Association.

The Misbehavior clause would hold true to that incident. It's disrespectful to the players as well as the umpires to wave your hands. It definitely brings disrepute to the sport and player afflicted by such actions. It's another one of those laws that is up to the interpretation of the umpire, but in most circumstances referee's would view this as unsportsmanlike therefore bringing disrepute to the sport. Having met several refs now i'm fairly sure that no matter where you go you should rely on your skill and that alone. No need to bring some trash into this gentleman's sport.

olvarox said:

Hi

Just recently I had a (friendly) discussion with an opponent, who stepped in close to the table and started waving his hands wildly as I was to smash down a very high ball.

My point of view was that this was uncalled for, AND that an official referee would probably at least issue out a warning towards him, or even give me the point upon a missed smash (I didn't miss however )

His point of view was that for as long as he shut up, he could make any movement he wanted and no referee could ever punish him for it.

Any thoughts on this?
The fact that it is clearly a lack of sportsmanship to do such "moves" is quite evident, but is it also officially FORBIDDEN?

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First things first, it's good that you didn't miss the sitting duck as result of his antics. Way to focus.
Second, I'd like to know the circumstances of the match. Was this in a club or in your home, a tournament match or just for fun?
Third, for what it's worth, you are correct that the behavior is not allowed in match play as 'unsportsmanlike' or disrespectful to the sport.
An umpire would have called a let and warned the player who deliberately interfered with your play with a Yellow card, at a minimum, although an umpire has some discretion.
Under standards USATT applies for matches in tournaments without a match official present, the ball goes as a 'let' unless you did attempt to strike it. Then you have to live with the outcome of your shot, good or bad. No doubt it would also bring you both to the control desk seeking a ruling. Since you would both disagree on the awarding of the point, the Ref would tell you to resume play at the "last agreed upon score", before this incident, which has the same result as a let. He'd also likely send an umpire back to the table with the two of you to conclude the match under supervision, if an umpire were available.

But your friend is wrong in his statement. If he doubts it, he should try it in an umpired match and see what happens.

Alan I agree with you to an extent, but his friend isn't wrong depending on the tournament. I would have to say that any tournament under 3 star he may get away with it, only because there are less umpires. Another reason is that one could argue that as he doesn't make any sound it is not that large of a distraction. If you watch players who are returning service they often have rituals they perform during or right before service so again one could argue that those hand movements are not penalized, so how can this movement have precedent. But on a larger scale I'm sure that many refs and umpires would side with us on the discussion.

His friend is completely wrong.He said no ref would have a problem with it, could ever punish him for it. Not true, Richard. The question was about the rules, not what he could get away with, or under what circumstances rules are not enforced. The description provided by the OP is a far cry from what you mention BEFORE service, when a ball is not even in play.

This happens more often, you should just laugh and smash it past him, no need for intervention. You can get distracted by someone in the audience as well, without getting a let. Personally i wouldn't wave my hands, but staying close to the table instead of walking backwards for a lob can already be distracting. If you give a high ball, your opponent expects you to walk backwards. But if you stay close to the table for a gambler block, is that bad sportmanship? I think it would be hard to call for an umpire, since some people already make weird movements from their 'normal' technique. For example, when Fukuhara plays a BH-punch, her non-playing hand will go into the sky xD.

Well, there's really no need to speculate, a dear friend of mine who is an International Ref posted this response to a similar question earlier this year.

Your opponent should win this point, because you and he, both were present at the start of rally as Handbook for match officials (this is my understanding):

11.3.2 A let should not normally be declared for occurrences due to hazards which were present at the start of a rally. For example, a player who fails to make a good return because he collides with his doubles partner, or trips over a surround is not entitled to the benefit of a let, but one may be allowed if the incident disturbs the conditions of play in a way which could be disadvantageous to an opponent.

Very clearly, the intentional distraction disturbed play and was disadvantageous to the player about to smash. A let should be called. Because the disturbance was intentional, it is 'misbehavior' as well, and the hand waver should be yellow-carded. Umpires do have some discretion, however. If I were umpiring and the incident was at match point, I'd award the point to the distracted player and declare the match over. If it were earlier in the match, I'd call a let and issue a yellow. But the fellow who claimed 'no ref could punish him' is misinformed.

The point is, it is hard to prove that he did whatever he did just to distract you. Maybe he makes silly movements with his technique more often. Of course when you see it you will know it, but there is no proof, nor a clear line as to what is distraction and what is part of your normal movements (like Ai's non-playing hand could distract people as well, but is not intentionally done to distract).

And about that rule, I think it means that for example when you start a rally while there is another ball in your playing area, you cannot call for a let for that rally anymore. Only when it happens during a rally you can call a let. The second part is about when a player fails to return, due to 'stupidity'. He cannot call a let. However, if his 'stupidity' causes his opponent to fail to return the ball, he can call a let. Personally I think the part 'if the incident disturbs the conditions of play' would mean like physically, for example when the table is moved, or you trip and fall into the opponents half of the playing area, preventing him from getting to the ball.
But you can also interpret it wider and say that making weird movements is also 'disturbing the conditions of play'. But even if you do, this rule says nothing about awarding a yellow card. It will result in a let, which is also disadvantageous for the player who got disturbed. I think the best thing to do is let the point play, when he doesn't miss, there is nothing to make trouble about. If he misses though, it can be a heated discussion.

But in the end, you just shouldn't miss a smash. Even if your opponent would dance like Bobrow, there is still no excuse to miss.

Granted, I am relying on the OP's description of the 'agitated hand waving'. which clearly goes past where a player's free hand flies while making their own shot.

The let portion is very clear that pre-existing conditions cannot be the reason for a let, like the presence of a surround,or your doubles partner. Mr. Hey-Look-At-Me Waving My Hands is not pre-existing and not movements in normal play, but a deliberate attempt to distract or disadvantage the opponent.

Aside from the club or basement scenario the OP suggests, does anyone have a recollection of this in tournament competition? The closest thing I can recall is when players began to STOMP on their serve, and that discussion was pretty well resolved a long time ago.

There is no rule saying about this, which means the point will stand if you actually missed the shot. But the behaviour shows the lack of sporting spirit.

olvarox said:

Damn, I really can't believe this kind of behaviour is not-punishable.

So what you are saying is, that I can do a kind of chicken dance while lobbing the ball, and my opponent can't do anything about it?
This sounds too crazy to be true

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I think it is true, though not that weird. It is your responsibility as a player to not get distracted by anything that happens during a match, including unnatural movement from your opponent. Besides, the opponent hinders himself enormously by making those movements. If you have a bit of focus, this kind of behavior will never pay off for your opponents.

Yup, I'm afraid it's true Alvarox. It's stupid, but there are some players out there do those things. Wiwa is right when he said if a player does that, he will actually put himself at risk losing the point, coz he's not concentrating on the point. If he focuses on the point, he might actually be able to return your shot.

As long as he doesn't shout and scream to intimidate you while doing the distracting action tactics, I don't think there's much you can do. Just hit the ball as hard as you can, and hope in lands between his eyes

You´re allowed to do whatever you want to as long as you not do any sound or touch the table? I use to stay close to the table and move the bat around to make my opponent confused. Or run from the back of the playingarea to the table just to make the other player stressed? Can´t see why it would be bad sportsmanship?

pingpongemil said:

You´re allowed to do whatever you want to as long as you not do any sound or touch the table? I use to stay close to the table and move the bat around to make my opponent confused. Or run from the back of the playingarea to the table just to make the other player stressed? Can´t see why it would be bad sportsmanship?

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What you did is quite subtle to what Alvarox meant here..what he meant here is when an opponent acts all crazy in front of the table, with no intentions of trying to get the shot back. I don't see anything wrong with what you do buddy