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  1. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #1

    Rasanter R47 vs R48?

    Is there a big difference in the speed/spin of the original R47 vs the newer generation R48? There's only 1 degree of hardness difference, so I wouldn't expect a big difference. But according to Andro's marketing, the R48 uses a more advanced sponge.

    Is that just marketing is there actually a difference?

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    #2
    R47 used the old topsheet. R48 uses the newer thin topsheet. R48 may potentially “feel” softer than R47.

    I played with R53 (also thin topsheet) which feels softer than a 39 degree H3

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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by SFF_lib
    R47 used the old topsheet. R48 uses the newer thin topsheet. R48 may potentially “feel” softer than R47.

    I played with R53 (also thin topsheet) which feels softer than a 39 degree H3

    Are you sure? On Megaspin I see both R47 and R48 listed as Ultramax sponge.


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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    Are you sure? On Megaspin I see both R47 and R48 listed as Ultramax sponge.

    That is correct.
    Rasanter (R37/R42/R47/R50 and V42/V47) were the first rubbers with this concept.

    With R53 and later R48 and R45 Andro introduced the Energy Cell sponge. Energy Call gives a little softer feeling on ball contact. This is very noticeable on R53, which plays softer than you´d expect from such a hard sponge, still obvious on R48 compared to R47 but R45 is a real power package despite its nominal hardness. Some people were thinking if R53 plays "like a 50 degree rubber" then R48 would be like 45 and R45 like 42 degrees, but with decreasing hardness the effect is less strong.
    Otherwise, expect a little more catapult and spin from R48 than you would from R47.

    The difference is not huge and you´d have to play them both to find out which you like more.

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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Airoc
    That is correct.
    Rasanter (R37/R42/R47/R50 and V42/V47) were the first rubbers with this concept.

    With R53 and later R48 and R45 Andro introduced the Energy Cell sponge. Energy Call gives a little softer feeling on ball contact. This is very noticeable on R53, which plays softer than you´d expect from such a hard sponge, still obvious on R48 compared to R47 but R45 is a real power package despite its nominal hardness. Some people were thinking if R53 plays "like a 50 degree rubber" then R48 would be like 45 and R45 like 42 degrees, but with decreasing hardness the effect is less strong.
    Otherwise, expect a little more catapult and spin from R48 than you would from R47.

    The difference is not huge and you´d have to play them both to find out which you like more.
    So basically R48 should be a little faster/spinnier than R47 despite the softer-feeling sponge?

  6. Gozo is offline
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    #6
    R48 packaging says max spin + max catapult.

    After using for a while, I went back to my beloved Tibhar Evolution MX-P ( 47.5 degree hardness apparently ). I miss the extreme trampoline effect of MX-P. The most trampolinish rubber I ever played. R48, in my opinion tends to gravitate towards the spin category rather than trampoline / catapult.

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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    So basically R48 should be a little faster/spinnier than R47 despite the softer-feeling sponge?
    The new topsheet tends to “bite” the ball and hold it longer than the previous generation. It also allows the ball to sink into the sponge with little power.

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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo
    R48 packaging says max spin + max catapult.

    After using for a while, I went back to my beloved Tibhar Evolution MX-P ( 47.5 degree hardness apparently ). I miss the extreme trampoline effect of MX-P. The most trampolinish rubber I ever played. R48, in my opinion tends to gravitate towards the spin category rather than trampoline / catapult.

    If R48 has the ultramax sponge, why is it slower than MXP? Isnt the whole point of ultramax to generate more speed by increasing sponge thickness?

    Are there any esn rubbers as fast or faster than mxp?


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    #9
    I used to play R47 on the FH and R42 on the BH.
    While my technique (and results) have obviously improved since then, I now play R53 on FH and R48 on BH with much improved consistency.

    The feeling the rubber provides has helped me be very consistent and generate a huge amount of spin.
    I am not sure the idea was to have a faster rubber than MX-P; this Energy Cell tech is quite amazing (most noticeable, as others outlined, on R53).

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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    Are you sure? On Megaspin I see both R47 and R48 listed as Ultramax sponge.

    That's not correct. Only R47 used Ultramax. (and also R37-42-50) with a rubber-surface from 1.7mm. The newer R48 used Energy-Cell sponge, not sure if they have the same thin rubber-surface as the old ones.

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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaxa
    That's not correct. Only R47 used Ultramax. (and also R37-42-50) with a rubber-surface from 1.7mm. The newer R48 used Energy-Cell sponge, not sure if they have the same thin rubber-surface as the old ones.
    ULTRAMAX is a THICKNESS made possible by thin topsheets. Other manufacturers name their thickest sponges MAX+ (Donic, Joola) or MaXXimum (GEWO), some didn´t bother while nonetheless having the same concept manufactured.
    The CONCEPT of even thicker sponges by using thinner topsheets was first introduced by ANDRO, who even scrapped the complete Rasant series for the Rasanter series. The concept however is not exclusive to ANDRO, and DONIC swiftly followed (as has nearly anybody else, to some extent) with BLUESTORM.

    ENERGY CELL is a different sponge TECHNOLOGY. It is available in ULTRAMAX thickness also. The topsheet of the ENERGY CELL R Rasanter rubbers is identical to the other R Rasanter.

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    Last edited by Airoc; 09-22-2022 at 04:24 PM.

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    #12
    If Energy Cell is better, why doesn't Andro re-do all the hardness versions as Energy cell?

  13. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #13
    I have tried both R-48 and R-47. I personally liked R-48 much more. But Airoc is presenting all the important technical information.

    I found with R-48, the amount of spin I could create was completely wild. After the factory tuning effect wore off, it was a little toned down. But it is still an excellent rubber and creates great spin. To me it also seemed as fast as I wanted it to be.

    The sponge takes a little getting used to. On softer or less penetrating contact it responds a little like it is dead. On deeper contact or bigger bang impact, to me, it responds with an awful lot of catapult.

    In any case, it may be worth trying both to see what you feel (without buying).
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    I have tried both R-48 and R-47. I personally liked R-48 much more. But Airoc is presenting all the important technical information.

    I found with R-48, the amount of spin I could create was completely wild. After the factory tuning effect wore off, it was a little toned down. But it is still an excellent rubber and creates great spin. To me it also seemed as fast as I wanted it to be.

    The sponge takes a little getting used to. On softer or less penetrating contact it responds a little like it is dead. On deeper contact or bigger bang impact, to me, it responds with an awful lot of catapult.

    In any case, it may be worth trying both to see what you feel (without buying).

    does more catapult mean more speed? so R48 is faster than R47?


  15. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    does more catapult mean more speed? so R48 is faster than R47?

    On DEEPER IMPACT and on MORE POWERFUL IMPACT, the sponge (it seems to me) propels the ball out with both crazy spin and crazy speed.

    So this would NOT HAPPEN on THIN BRUSH contact but on DEEPER CONTACT that is still SPIN CONTACT.

    But, again, everyone has different feelings and perceptions when they use different equipment. Also, the way you contact the ball and the way I contact the ball might be different.

    I think you may brush thin on your FH. Do you ever get the ball to sink deep into the sponge without letting it go so deep that it impacts the wood or causes the sponge to fully bottom out? If you do this while brushing, you get wild spin and speed with Rasanter R48 that is much faster and much spinnier than what T05 or MXP would give you. But you would have to know what I am talking about and know how to do it.

    So, I am not sure if you will find it fast or faster than X, Y or Z. But I found it faster and spinnier than anything when I used certain specific techniques. And I liked it way more in every way than I liked R47. For me, when I want it to be fast it is much faster than my memory of R47.

    Will that be the case for you? I don't know.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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  16. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Airoc
    That is correct.
    Rasanter (R37/R42/R47/R50 and V42/V47) were the first rubbers with this concept.

    With R53 and later R48 and R45 Andro introduced the Energy Cell sponge. Energy Call gives a little softer feeling on ball contact. This is very noticeable on R53, which plays softer than you´d expect from such a hard sponge, still obvious on R48 compared to R47 but R45 is a real power package despite its nominal hardness. Some people were thinking if R53 plays "like a 50 degree rubber" then R48 would be like 45 and R45 like 42 degrees, but with decreasing hardness the effect is less strong.
    Otherwise, expect a little more catapult and spin from R48 than you would from R47.

    The difference is not huge and you´d have to play them both to find out which you like more.
    Airoc, I believe I have read some stuff you wrote about R48 and R53 when they first came out.

    Can you tell us some of your experience with these Rasanter rubbers that have the Energy Cell Sponge?
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Airoc
    The CONCEPT of even thicker sponges by using thinner topsheets was first introduced by ANDRO
    Are you sure about this? Because the Stiga Innova Premium had 2.6mm thick sponge (as max) back in the day. I remember some kids bragging with it like some genital extension compared with my measly 2.1mm Catapult 😲

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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    On DEEPER IMPACT and on MORE POWERFUL IMPACT, the sponge (it seems to me) propels the ball out with both crazy spin and crazy speed.

    So this would NOT HAPPEN on THIN BRUSH contact but on DEEPER CONTACT that is still SPIN CONTACT.

    But, again, everyone has different feelings and perceptions when they use different equipment. Also, the way you contact the ball and the way I contact the ball might be different.

    I think you may brush thin on your FH. Do you ever get the ball to sink deep into the sponge without letting it go so deep that it impacts the wood or causes the sponge to fully bottom out? If you do this while brushing, you get wild spin and speed with Rasanter R48 that is much faster and much spinnier than what T05 or MXP would give you. But you would have to know what I am talking about and know how to do it.

    So, I am not sure if you will find it fast or faster than X, Y or Z. But I found it faster and spinnier than anything when I used certain specific techniques. And I liked it way more in every way than I liked R47. For me, when I want it to be fast it is much faster than my memory of R47.

    Will that be the case for you? I don't know.

    I had almost forgotten about this since I have been using R48/R53 for a while now, but I could not agree more.
    With R47 I tended to generate more spin by going thinner contact, but that's not going to work with the Energy Cell.

    That had me stumped initially and I spoke with the Andro importer here Down Under (a good friend) and he made the exact same point to me.

    One needs to engage the rubber more (deeper) for it to do its work, say generate more spin/speed.
    If you do that then the results are fantastic.

    It takes a while to do so but like everything then it becomes ingrained and you almost forget about it.

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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwill
    Because the Stiga Innova Premium had 2.6mm thick sponge (as max) back in the day.
    You are right of course.
    I should have said ANDRO re-introduced the concept for the ESN made new rubbers.

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Can you tell us some of your experience with these Rasanter rubbers that have the Energy Cell Sponge?
    Energy Cell is optimized for spin performance and creates a slightly different feeling than the regular Rasanter sponge, although this would only be noticeable when comparing R47 and R48 with the same nominal sponge hardness of 47,5 degrees. Catapult for me is a side effect, and speed - well, I couldn´t really tell if a topspin flies faster with R48 than R47...

    What´s really interesting is what I wrote above about the varying degrees of the "plays softer" effect. This is very probably caused by the different cell-wall thicknesses. R53 will be surprisingly soft for such a hard sponge, but of course not a soft rubber as such. I can only compare it to GEWO Super Select 53, which is way harder overall. Evolution MX-D also feels a little softer than you´d expect, but it is not the direct equivalent, those new ESN rubbers are different.

    R48 also feels a little softer than R47, but with all the different topsheets of the current rubbers you will doubtlessly find other 47,5 degree rubbers that feel softer. Again, Evolution gives a good example with EL-D, but that feels a lot softer than R48.

    R45 is just an amazing rubber on its own. The first sheets I had almost rivalled R48 in speed and spin performance. That is why if someone is looking for a nicely controllable 45 degree rubber I´d recommend trying Hexer Grip. R45 is a power package that happens to be a little on the softer side. Again, and still not meant for a direct comparison, only in overall feeling and softness, the new FX-D is much softer.

    And if you ask, I´d take any Energy Cell Rasanter over any Evolution "D" of corresponding sponge hardness, but that is a personal thing.

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