German National Championships 2014

I hope Timo Boll is going to do it. He is soooooo much better than Dima, the only reason Dima wins against Timo is because they know each other well and if you know your opponent the skill level doesnt matter that much. But imho Timo Bolls technique is like a european godfather compared to Dimas wanna be Chinese style…

Butt Stallion said:

I hope Timo Boll is going to do it. He is soooooo much better than Dima, the only reason Dima wins against Timo is because they know each other well and if you know your opponent the skill level doesnt matter that much. But imho Timo Bolls technique is like a european godfather compared to Dimas wanna be Chinese style…

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I don't think he is winining because they know each other really well, he is just strogner curently, because Timo Boll is not at his best any more.. Dima is not only one who beat Timo in last times.. But yes I agree Timo Bolls technique is really the godfather like you said.. That's why he had ability to beat some chinese players

I strongly disagree, Timo Boll's FH is such an obsolete way of looping. There's way much more a human body can do to cut through the ball using the energy from the mucles. Timo relies mostly on the blade to provide the power for him, hence he brushes the ball. Dmitrij Ovtcharov has shown a much better way to loop than him and it clearly is advantegous since he's beaten Timo so many times now and I'm glad he's shown him how to loop properly. The reason Timo has been winning so far because he's got a good footwork and hell he's been doing the same old brush top spin for 20 years after all

I dont think so. Timo plays is forehand with a maximum of spin, almost nobody can do this. Even the chinese players dont have his special feeling for the ball, thats why TBoll was the only one who could catch up with the chinese. Hes has just an other playing style but is perfect in it.
Dima is kinda between, hes stronger than Boll but far away of being as strong or fast as Ma Long or ZJK. But he doesnt has Bolls Spin or eye for the ball, hes technique is much more uneducated as Bolls techniques. Dima does nothing better than the chinese thats why he will never have any real chance. Boll was always something super special compared to China thats why he was always so dangerous.

But yeah, right now Boll isnt in a good shape and Dima is probably going to do it. Still I hope its going to be Boll, hes a badass!

But Timo never even bothered to furthermore develop his FH to properly cut through the ball like Dmitrij does. That's what I'm talking about. The perfect eye and contact of the ball is a different matter - is a matter of practice and Timo Boll has nailed it down to the maximum yes and only used this sharp-eyes precision to win the titles but never anything else and his recent failures now are the consequence of it.

bzing said:

But Timo never even bothered to furthermore develop his FH to properly cut through the ball like Dmitrij does. That's what I'm talking about. The perfect eye and contact of the ball is a different matter - is a matter of practice and Timo Boll has nailed it down to the maximum yes and only used this sharp-eyes precision to win the titles but never anything else and his recent failures now are the consequence of it.

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I can't beliave what you are saying, you just don't understand what is he doing and why. Just like @Butt Stallion said, he is concentrated on the maximum spin on the ball, not power like Dima and like Chinese players, his forehand technique is really unique, and now a lot of people are trying to copy him but he just has that talent. Maybe you don't agree but that's your problem, but Timo will always be different from others, that's why he will always be No1 in Europe for me.

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I do understand that he's concentrating on spin but that doesn't mean if a player like Dmitrij Ovtcharov can't do it either. In fact he can do both, a powerful smash-loop with almost a straight arm and sometimes a bent-arm brush loop - that's where it is the most advantegous - knowing both. Unfortunetaly to properly cut through the ball requires a kind of training that chinese do these days, Dmitrij Ovtcharov is the one that has applied it to his technique and it resulted him beating Timo numerous times. Timo Boll's repetitive brush loop is not enough when trying to win with these kind of players, having just one type of looping just won't get you anywhere these days, Timo's looping is obsolete. Hell 50 years ago in table tennis players would just do some flat-hit flicking and still win major titles. That's how it advanced.

bzing said:

I do understand that he's concentrating on spin but that doesn't mean if a player like Dmitrij Ovtcharov can't do it either. In fact he can do both, a powerful smash-loop with almost a straight arm and sometimes a bent-arm brush loop - that's where it is the most advantegous - knowing both. Unfortunetaly to properly cut through the ball requires a kind of training that chinese do these days, Dmitrij Ovtcharov is the one that has applied it to his technique and it resulted him beating Timo numerous times. Timo Boll's repetitive brush loop is not enough when trying to win with these kind of players, having just one type of looping just won't get you anywhere these days, Timo's looping is obsolete. Hell 50 years ago in table tennis players would just do some flat-hit flicking and still win major titles. That's how it advanced.

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It will get you nowhere? He is number 8 in the world... I wish I was nowhere then Don't forget that he won over Zhang Jike at the Olympics and since then hasn't really played many chinese, so don't underestimate him. Besides, old ingredients often do work against new playing styles, if you see samsonov, he could barely win over WLQ, Ma Lin or Wang Hao, but did have some wins over the new chinese generation. Don't break down a player for not being in the best period in his life

I don't want to insult any TB fans, but I agree that his FH is outdated. It has never won him points as much as a fh should. I think his FH might have been perfect in the speed glue era, but post speed glue, its not enough to just brush the ball and rely on the racket's speed only. Compensating with disturbing amounts of spin I think is TB's solution, which works, but it does not mean his FH is technically good. These are just my thoughts though.

bzing said:

I do understand that he's concentrating on spin but that doesn't mean if a player like Dmitrij Ovtcharov can't do it either. In fact he can do both, a powerful smash-loop with almost a straight arm and sometimes a bent-arm brush loop - that's where it is the most advantegous - knowing both. Unfortunetaly to properly cut through the ball requires a kind of training that chinese do these days, Dmitrij Ovtcharov is the one that has applied it to his technique and it resulted him beating Timo numerous times. Timo Boll's repetitive brush loop is not enough when trying to win with these kind of players, having just one type of looping just won't get you anywhere these days, Timo's looping is obsolete. Hell 50 years ago in table tennis players would just do some flat-hit flicking and still win major titles. That's how it advanced.

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I cannot believe this comes from a tt fan. Timo boll had achieve what most European player failed to achieve, been a number 1 ranking in the world, European players that has won major during the WLQ/ ML / WH era and one of the the few European player ever invited to play in the elite chinese league. And yet you said his technique is obsolete? His technique may be outdated, but his technique is one of a kind technique that has the ability to won over the Chinese player. Do you think Dima can match the speed and the power of the Chinese player? I believe Dima can win the tournament no doubt about that, but to say it is because Boll's technique is totally absurd. Dima is better, he has the power, speed and accuracy over boll no doubt about it. But because of Boll's obsolete technique? Not in a million years

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LethalForehand said:

I don't want to insult any TB fans, but I agree that his FH is outdated. It has never won him points as much as a fh should. I think his FH might have been perfect in the speed glue era, but post speed glue, its not enough to just brush the ball and rely on the racket's speed only. Compensating with disturbing amounts of spin I think is TB's solution, which works, but it does not mean his FH is technically good. These are just my thoughts though.

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You don't even see what he does with his forehand, he gets the most power from his wrist, and he creates tons of spin with it.
Just check this video out: He doesn't do the big swing like Chinese players, his swing is even hard to see when it's not in slow motion. Watch his wrist, he relaxes the grip and let's his wrist to do that movement, it's the best possible technique for me. And everyone knows that footwork is part of technique, and he has amazing one!

So, you still think that power is more important than spin? Okay.

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If you examine the two videos notice how Timo's bat swings only upwards and stops very short at the forehead (this is the old teaching and is just a worse way of looping), Wang Liqin arm goes far behind the neck and made to the left, there's so many different kind of looping but Timo's is only upward and the arm suddenly stops - it looks so awful to watch.

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bzing said:

Yes -->

If you examine the two videos notice how Timo's bat swings only upwards and stops very short at the forehead (this is the old teaching and is just a worse way of looping), Wang Liqin arm goes far behind the neck and made to the left, there's so many different kind of looping but Timo's is only upward and the arm suddenly stops - it looks so awful to watch.

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No that is not old technique, it's euro-japan style!! Mizutani has very simillar forhend. Chinese players use different rubbers and they have different technique, how don't you see

Just curious - at the German nationals - do participants have the chance to warm up/have a warm up area? and how many tables are at the venue?

MDanielCRO said:

No that is not old technique, it's euro-japan style!! Mizutani has very simillar forhend. Chinese players use different rubbers and they have different technique, how don't you see

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Yes and this is why you see the chinese players when they engage in counter top-spin rallies with players like Mizutani or Timo often borrowing the power that is produced from Timo's spinny top spin - they've found a way to deal with these short stroke top spins and can be easily exploited by swinging the arm and through the ball using a hard sponge tacky chinese rubber. It's like the tacky rubber almost grips the ball and sends it back on the table. What happens then, when Timo Boll tries to reloop that ball again usually hits the net because the brush stroke doesn't have enough forward momentum to send the ball back. And that's when he loses. In today's table tennis it's not enough to win major titles by having just one kind of top spin. Maybe it was 10 years ago when Timo Boll was 1st in the world.

I've seen Dmitrij Ovtcharov also adopting this technique of borrowing opponent's power by just relooping the ball from the top of the bounce - not like Timo Boll Who always stoops down to the ball and then lifts it again - no wonder he gets injured. Timo Boll never borrows the power he always uplifts it again. It looks like he's always trying to sneak up to the ball and brush-stroke it upwards and that is his formula for winning matches, but it doesn't always work especially when the chinese looping which is much stronger and has clearly proved a better way to loop. If I find a video I'll show you how Dmitrij Ovtcharov borrows the power from opponents top spin.

Regarding whether Timo/Mizutani top spin is old or not trust me, it may be not deemed old yet but soon professional players will start noticing the chinese looping advantegous one. You already start seeing players adopting this technique - Liam Pitchford for example.