Advice for my terrible receive

says Pimples Schmimples
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Just a few points from warm up game, but its clear as day how bad I am at receiving good serves. I feel like if i could improve this one single area, I would make a huge leap actually.

I can't read the spin, I choose the wrong receive, I whiff the ball, Im just not confident in this area. Please give advice. Should I just be hard-looping every one of these? If it looks like I am hesitant and pulling my shot, that's because I am. I have no idea what spin is on every one of these serves, so I'm hesitant to touch the ball. As soon as I contact the ball, it goes off in a different direction than I'm expecting.

I know @UpSideDownCarl talked a lot about looping early and looping the serve, but in this video I just can't execute it because I'm very unsure about the spin, or sometimes unsure about the length. Also I feel I have a bit more time to loop on the FH, but the serve is coming in too fast on my BH to loop.

View attachment 32127
He's a very good server, great that you get to test yourself V that level of player. And also great that you have identified weaknesses and are addressing them, with video support!
As Tyce said, I see only positives here but obviously I recognise the frustration too and understand your phrasing in the initial post.
Lots of great advice already.
I will mention again the positioning and footwork. I think this should be your first thing to address. You need to hit that with a vengeance so it becomes automatic.
Then the lean fwd at hips is easy.
Another benefit of this is it really helps with the feedback loop as it makes it much easier to identify what you've done wrong when executing a shit, which then feeds your learning and improvement.
 
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I suck at serve receive too, but I have been using these two simple methods and it has been helping me personally

1. Focus on the racket contact. Don’t look at the ball or anything else during the opponent serve except the point at which he will contact the ball. How the racket contacts the ball will determine what spin it is.
2. If that is really tricky, my next step is observe the second bounce. The ball will kick on topspin, float on no spin and back spin will drop
 
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Many things to say:

- if you want receive advice edit the video so we can see you receiving only. One could think you’re the red guy. Why not use PInghero.ai

- change your shoes they seem very heavy

- I think you’re not relaxed enough and think you need power to receive and then to generate that power you think you need a big swing.
This is wrong. IMO a short swing is generally preferable. You don’t need the whole arm. Only the forearm. And it’s preferable to use the wrist more. It will give you more control.

- the guy is a leftie. Against lefties I stand at 1/3 of the table on the left side. But my RIGHT foot is in front not the left one as « usual ». Against a fast serve down the line on your BH where you have less time to react it gives you a little bit more space in case you were not quick enough. You’d take the ball not in front of you which is not ideal but more chance to get it back. In case you do BH topspin you can use the hip rotation more easily with this stance. Against the down the line pendulum serve from leftie important to contact the ball on the left side.

- your footwork is slow when he serves wide to the FH. Try moving a bit the left leg before the right leg. Having the right leg in front will help you get close to the ball faster

- don’t panic you have more time than you think. If you’re late to the ball don’t try something stupid but just put it back on the table where he doesn’t expect it and/or with as much spin that you can.
How do you deal with fast serves of various spins to the elbow with a right foot in front stance? This is the main reason why i still have my right foot back. But imo Right foot forward definitely has some advantages in short receive (especially chiquita!) and deep BH.
 
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How do you deal with fast serves of various spins to the elbow with a right foot in front stance? This is the main reason why i still have my right foot back. But imo Right foot forward definitely has some advantages in short receive (especially chiquita!) and deep BH.
Make sure to keep body low and racket ahead . It creates space . I have this stance when receiving “inverted” sidespin = BH YG etc serve from RH player or pendulum serve from LH player

Against this spin normally I try to contact the ball on the left side and thus favour to play a BH shot. But if the ball is at my wide FH then I will try to topspin it cross court and contact on right side
Unless it’s a no spin serve then it doesn’t matter much…

Yes the most difficult part is not getting surprised by the fast long serve notably to the elbow…

Having a short backswing being relaxed watch the ball etc…helps. But it the end it’s also skill and practice

With my approach I don’t like servers who are able to camouflage and let you in doubt which sidespin they are putting in the ball until the last split second . But if they can do that they’re usually much better than me anyway
 
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How do you deal with fast serves of various spins to the elbow with a right foot in front stance? This is the main reason why i still have my right foot back. But imo Right foot forward definitely has some advantages in short receive (especially chiquita!) and deep BH.
It’s difficult to quickly move left or right when one foot is forward. The guy I play with a lot has both feet parallel.
I just learned a fast floater serve through the middle. My training partner, a young lightweight guy, just leans 40 cm-ish to his right and has his backhand ready. I can’t surprise him, and of course, it’s too simple a ball for him.
 
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Make sure to keep body low and racket ahead . It creates space . I have this stance when receiving “inverted” sidespin = BH YG etc serve from RH player or pendulum serve from LH player

Against this spin normally I try to contact the ball on the left side and thus favour to play a BH shot. But if the ball is at my wide FH then I will try to topspin it cross court and contact on right side
Unless it’s a no spin serve then it doesn’t matter much…

Yes the most difficult part is not getting surprised by the fast long serve notably to the elbow…

Having a short backswing being relaxed watch the ball etc…helps. But it the end it’s also skill and practice

With my approach I don’t like servers who are able to camouflage and let you in doubt which sidespin they are putting in the ball until the last split second . But if they can do that they’re usually much better than me anyway
Miwa Harimoto also uses this right foot in front stance. I once tried this stance and it made it so easy to chiquita from short FH. For me it definitely has advantages esp in short game and even long BH.

But yeah I couldnt solve the fast serve to elbow issue so I gave up and used the more conventional right foot back stance. I guess if I can pivot super fast then it is really possible.

Tbh now that I know how to neutralize all reverse pendulum sidespin with my FH loop (basically if you use a bit of a Xu Xin style hook loop to go with the spin it is super forgiving and easy to make a high quality shot which you can direct it easily), I actually aim to try to loop all half long and long balls with my FH loop now, which right leg back makes it much easier. Also, with this sidespin they almost cannot serve a ball that challenges your footwork to the extreme wide BH (ie exiting the sides) unlike conventional FH sidespin pendulum, so it makes it much easier to use FH against it. Whereas it is super difficult to do FH pivot against conventional FH sidespin pendulum when they can serve balls exiting the sides - the angle is just a bit too much.

But yeah the problem is FH short receive is just not as good as BH receive in general, so this is the disadvantage of right foot back ready stance.
 
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When I'm receiving well, I've noticed I'm not focusing much on trying to consciously read the spin on the serve. I'm looking more at the big picture, i.e., the server's motion as well as the speed, placement and trajectory of the ball. When I'm processing all of that subconsciously, I'll also be moving faster and producing higher quality returns even if I couldn't tell you exactly how I'm reading the serve (and even if I sometimes wouldn't be able to say what spin is on it).

When I truly have no clue (often, early in a match against an unfamiliar serve), I default to this strategy:


I've found that focusing on decoding the spin on each serve before starting my return just slows me down too much, and I end up being too passive. I've had more success by worrying less about spin and focusing more on moving well to return and closely following the trajectory of the ball.

All that said, serve receive is one of the hardest parts of the game for me so I'm also interested in anyone else's thoughts.
Well said. I found this very true. Returning serve is the weakest part of my game. There was a match against a much stronger player with tricky serves. I was in good form that day, I did exactly what you described, not worrying much about the spin of his serves, just moved and returning them subconsciously, I lost a few points directly from serves but I also won some directly, and I led him 2-1. But my teammates tried to coach me and told me to wait and read the spin carefully. Omg it was a disaster. From that moment, I couldn’t receive at all, either dumping the ball to the net or popping it up. In the end I lost 2-3 and I remember that match forever. Some people can wait and try to read the spin carefully, it works for them, but not me.
 
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just let the ball bounce.
you are too rushed with receiving and your standing position is too close to the table plus too much in the middle. he basically never played on single short ball, so no need to stand to close and you should always adapt your standing position based on the serves you get. yes the person is left handed, put you still shouldn't stand in the middle because it is way harder to play in the far backhand then move in the forehand (if you let the ball bounce ofc)

his serves where tricky because he hid his paddle for a long time behind his back, so another good reason to let the ball come to you. the spin will be less and you have more time to read it.

PS: i would also advice you to take yourself more time before you serve, too. think about your serve placement and your 3rd ball before you serve.

PPS: put away the knee sleeves and get yourself proper tabletennis shoes. your knees will thank you later
You look like an Echte Deutscher... and you know PS and PPS. Sehr gut.

I am not a Deutscher all all, even though I can get along with Deutschers in Deutschland very well. :D
 
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But yeah I couldnt solve the fast serve to elbow issue so I gave up and used the more conventional right foot back stance. I guess if I can pivot super fast then it is really possible.
if the opponent is really good at long fast serve of course you need to protect it, but what is important is to have the resolve to attack this serve. whether with your FH or BH. if you decide you want to play these balls with FH then yes, if you wait with right foot ahead you have to move quickly this foot back, there is some loss of time involved. but if you're prepared mentally to this reaction its possible, you can also go back like 5cm ...
if you decide to play these balls with your BH then the stance is still ok. but true resolve is important; to attack well those long serves, you have to be on the tip of your toes and body leaning forward and play in front of you, not too close from your body. No hesitation or half hearted receive...
 
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Just a few points from warm up game, but its clear as day how bad I am at receiving good serves. I feel like if i could improve this one single area, I would make a huge leap actually.

I can't read the spin, I choose the wrong receive, I whiff the ball, Im just not confident in this area. Please give advice. Should I just be hard-looping every one of these? If it looks like I am hesitant and pulling my shot, that's because I am. I have no idea what spin is on every one of these serves, so I'm hesitant to touch the ball. As soon as I contact the ball, it goes off in a different direction than I'm expecting.

I know @UpSideDownCarl talked a lot about looping early and looping the serve, but in this video I just can't execute it because I'm very unsure about the spin, or sometimes unsure about the length. Also I feel I have a bit more time to loop on the FH, but the serve is coming in too fast on my BH to loop.

View attachment 32127

Hey man, theres a lot of bad advice out there in a game that is so nuanced and so difficult, yet really encourages those who haven't really been to a high level, be so eager to try and teach others (even though they actually mean well, it causes so much misinformation)

I know I might be just another random on the internet so let me clarify why my link and coaching here is reliable.

Heming Hu here from Australia. a 2xOlympian, Aussie number 1 Male player from 2017-2022, highest Men's World Ranking of 61, and 2019 Australian Singles Champion. As well, I've been coaching enthusiastic Club Level Table Tennis players for over a decade and gotten hundreds of clients through stagnating times of their playing career. Don't take my word for it all though, heres my FREE vids that'll make more sense and help you more than most peoples content in paid courses.

Let me know if these give you the answers you seek, and message me if you have more:

 
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Disclaimer: I'm a seasoned low level obi-player. So my words are not advise, just my mere observations.

Firstly, I have also similar problems so it's easier to said than done of course, don't get me wrong.

Secondly, I'm surprised that they allowed you play with that shoes, not just for speed and injury risk, also they can mark the floor. Even the barefoot is better, at least hurting your ankles would be harder.

My observations from your footage:

1st Receive: (around 00:24)
View attachment 32141
The ball is at middle of court already, direction is wide forehand, you haven't moved that yet. Maybe you focused too much on spin, forgot to look at the direction and depth.
A small adjustment step needed to the right. Then a step with right foot into the table due to the ball is coming short.
View attachment 32143
At this point you already late, way too far from ball, hardly reaching. And you are trying to send ball back cross court in front of your opponent who also not ready actually, just watching ball. Of course ball goes long and high. (Red arrow)
Alternatively, at least if you have tried to send ball back to his forehand (parallel), he won't be easily attacking you, and also you already touching ball from left so, you would have more control on ball while sending. (Green arrow)


2nd receive (around 00:46) (there are couple more points with same serve)
View attachment 32144View attachment 32145



The opponent, hits ball edge of table and fast, most likely it will come long. Then ball passed the net, you still haven't moved yet.

View attachment 32146View attachment 32147

Then after even you are close to table, and ball is fast top spin, you are lowering your hand like it's heavy low backspin (even though we should lower with body first).
Of course, you can't touch ball from above and touching from below and makes the ball pop.
Actually you are doing left step after hitting but still good that you've made reset and try to ready for next ball.

3rd FH serve receive (around 02:16)
View attachment 32154View attachment 32155


The ball is coming to wide forehand already passed net but you haven't moved yet,
Your right foot should be at the tip of red arrow.
Then ball touches table, you are late, even with your huuge backswing, you manage to hit but week return, point is lost.
When you were late, you could have much shorter stroke or receiving farther and squatting down, making slow short spinny topspin would be better return (which may buy you a time for next balls, recovery, harder to attacked by opponent)

4th receive FH (around 2:29)
View attachment 32156
The opponent makes side spin to forehand, the ball has passed the net but still you haven't moved a bit.
Right foot should be around the tip of red arrow.

View attachment 32158

When the ball hit to your side of table, you are making huge backswing again while you out of position, which makes you late and harder for timing. Also ball has side spin to wide FH, which harder to catch from your position.
Then ball passes almost you, eventually you miss the ball.

Alternatively, even you are late, you could have a jump to right (Yellow Arrow) while or before backswing,
then with shorter backswing, instead of hitting to cross court (the opponents BH),
you could aim to his FH (parallel) (Green arrow), which would be
- harder for your opponent,
- easier to countering incoming spin
- easier to hit from your position.


Summary:
- You could try to anticipate not only spin, also depth, position etc.
You may try to adjust spin at latest point with your wrist action, but if you are out position it's harder to execute decent shot.
- More footwork, small adjustment steps as soon as ball leaves the opponent's racket.
- Avoiding excessive strokes (still not doing half strokes), if you are not confident at your position, timing etc.


By the way, you are much better at footwork and anticipation at 3rd and 4th balls, probably stressing about your opponents serve etc.

End note:
Please fellow members and TT gods forgive me if I made a mistake, I just wanted to share my humble opinions.
Here are two more against long sidespin services:

 
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Hey man, theres a lot of bad advice out there in a game that is so nuanced and so difficult, yet really encourages those who haven't really been to a high level, be so eager to try and teach others (even though they actually mean well, it causes so much misinformation)

I know I might be just another random on the internet so let me clarify why my link and coaching here is reliable.

Heming Hu here from Australia. a 2xOlympian, Aussie number 1 Male player from 2017-2022, highest Men's World Ranking of 61, and 2019 Australian Singles Champion. As well, I've been coaching enthusiastic Club Level Table Tennis players for over a decade and gotten hundreds of clients through stagnating times of their playing career. Don't take my word for it all though, heres my FREE vids that'll make more sense and help you more than most peoples content in paid courses.

Let me know if these give you the answers you seek, and message me if you have more:

Any advice for him directly based on the video he uploaded?
 
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hehe, thanks for sharing my work man. I'm glad people are starting to see my content and finding it helpful. I did play this game for 23 years and it was all I did in my life till this point with 13 of these 23 years playing on the professional circuit. Were you personally able to apply the stuff I teach in my vids? Appreciate you subscribing and following my youtube page
 
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