Any Service Advice for Me?

[Shuki]

I somehow knew that you'd say exactly this. To the word.

@UpSideDownCarl
@NextLevel
@NDH

Someone with something smart to say, get in here.

You knew that the guy who on average posts one comment per page would say this? Looks like I'm pretty one dimentional when it comes to this forum. It's okay though I'm simply basing this on what I've seen from you.

I do remember you saying you'd find a way to post a video of yourself a few weeks back though.

 

[Archosaurus]

You knew that the guy who on average posts one comment per page would say this? Looks like I'm pretty one dimentional when it comes to this forum. It's okay though I'm simply basing this on what I've seen from you.

I do remember you saying you'd find a way to post a video of yourself a few weeks back though.

You are extremely one dimensional on the forums. All you've done to now is insult me because I offended you at some point.


I've already posted a video. I purposely posted my worst play I can remember ever playing to see what people have to say. You can go post hateful comments on the thread if you want, but I'd rather get a good, thorough explanation of what exactly a "non-three dimensional" game is.

 

[NDH]

I've tried to read through this all, but might have missed some bits.

Can we clarify.... Are people basing their advice to Shuki on video footage.... Or purely a description?

 

[Archosaurus]

I've tried to read through this all, but might have missed some bits.

Can we clarify.... Are people basing their advice to Shuki on video footage.... Or purely a description?

I was basing mine on a description from Carl. Carl had played with him personally. So it's not exactly a surprise that my advice wasn't accurate.

Anyway, did you see my post on the previous thread?

 

[Shuki]

I've tried to read through this all, but might have missed some bits.

Can we clarify.... Are people basing their advice to Shuki on video footage.... Or purely a description?

Carl played with me and based his advice off that. Arch just read Carl's post and stated that my stroke is too short and that I don't go through the ball.

Adding that I don't follow through or rotate my body or relax my stroke.

No video


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[Archosaurus]

Shuki doesn't seem to understand the difference between "probably" and "definitely".

Anyway, I'm still wondering what exactly differentiates a 3D game from a 2D/1D game. You could mean anything when you say that, be it shot selection, amount of spin, tactics etc. but I'm sure it's not that simple.

 

[Shuki]

Arch I didn't know that you posted a video, still haven't seen it myself but I sincerely apologize for jumping to conclusions. I'll watch it later if I can find it.


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[Shuki]

3D is well rounded game. 2d would be those low level players with only a few strokes that have gotten pretty good at those strokes but can't get far with them since they don't have various placement, spin, etc..

2d is easy to read


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[NDH]

I was basing mine on a description from Carl. Carl had played with him personally. So it's not exactly a surprise that my advice wasn't accurate.

Anyway, did you see my post on the previous thread?

Which previous thread are you talking about?

Shuki - I wouldn't listen to anyone on here regarding your technique - Except for what Carl has to say based upon his practice with you.

It's absolutely impossible to ever describe the situation you are in with words - Which is why you have disagreed with the majority of advice from people (rightly so). Frankly, I'm surprised it became a topic of conversation!

Do you have any video you could post (if you want to?). Of course.... I'm not sure I ever saw you ask for advice! But to be fair, I did only skim through the previous 4 pages.

Arch has finally posted his, and I think everyone is very relieved!

 

[Archosaurus]

Previous PAGE*.

I am asking the difference between a 2D and 3D game.

@Shuki

So if I would only be able to counterhit crosscourt to the middle of the table against a ball in my sweetspot, that'd be pretty much completely one dimensional.

if I can do counterhits with standard spin and maybe varied pace on both wings to both wings, that'd have a little more depth to it.

If I could do low spin hits, medium spin hits, high spin hits, add any amount of sidespin I want to them and be able to place them anywhere I want from either wing under pressure, that'd be three dimensional.

?

 

[NDH]

Previous PAGE*.

I am asking the difference between a 2D and 3D game.

@Shuki

So if I would only be able to counterhit crosscourt to the middle of the table against a ball in my sweetspot, that'd be pretty much completely one dimensional.

if I can do counterhits with standard spin and maybe varied pace on both wings to both wings, that'd have a little more depth to it.

If I could do low spin hits, medium spin hits, high spin hits, add any amount of sidespin I want to them and be able to place them anywhere I want from either wing under pressure, that'd be three dimensional.

?

I think the wording has been misinterpreted.

I'm sure Shuki will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he simply means "the difference between a beginner/intermediate (2D) game, and a more advance all around game (3D).

 

[Shuki]

I actually had video taken of me recently I wanted to upload but the other player told me he wasn't comfortable with me uploading it. He's a police officer and doesn't want his face out there.

I posted a video about 6 months ago of me doing various strokes with Danny seemiller Jr. But I'm nowhere near as bad as I was back at that training camp

Getting a decent camera and a tripod within the next month in hopes of recording my play on an at least weekly basis to use for improvement


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[ttmonster]

Shuki , let me help out here . Generally 2D game is played by people who are young , against people who have lack of proper training so they can't get most of the shots back. Since everybody around them treat them like champions they get their ego boosted beyond what is healthy for them . Then one day if they are lucky, they get to play an old , experienced player in a club who is kind to them but carefully shatters their self belief by standing in the middle of the table and just destroying their game with some unorthodox blocks. Now, there are some unlucky guys out there who never get to experience this, and their only hope of redemption is online table tennis forums , but then some of those unlucky guys shoot themselves in their foot by creating an online persona which drives people away ... get it ?

Previous PAGE*.

I am asking the difference between a 2D and 3D game.

@Shuki

So if I would only be able to counterhit crosscourt to the middle of the table against a ball in my sweetspot, that'd be pretty much completely one dimensional.

if I can do counterhits with standard spin and maybe varied pace on both wings to both wings, that'd have a little more depth to it.

If I could do low spin hits, medium spin hits, high spin hits, add any amount of sidespin I want to them and be able to place them anywhere I want from either wing under pressure, that'd be three dimensional.

?

 

[Shuki]

I think the wording has been misinterpreted.

I'm sure Shuki will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he simply means "the difference between a beginner/intermediate (2D) game, and a more advance all around game (3D).

Yes this is how I interpreted 2d vs 3D


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[Archosaurus]

So, if I can stand in the middle of the table and just do dead blocks and sidespin blocks all day until my opponent puts it in the net, pops it up or goes long, my game is 3D because I know exactly where the ball is gonna go with what kind of spin and pace and I can get away with playing like that?

Perhaps against the level of my opponents, but I somehow doubt my game is considered 3D if I'm playing someone of similar or greater ability, at least until I can learn their game.

So, it's relative to the level of the players? Tomokazu Harimoto played Ma Long terribly one-dimensionally most of the time and got his ass handed to him. His game was not 3D.

If Tomokazu Harimoto would play anyone from here, he'd be blasting balls past us with great deception. His game would be 3D.


?

 

[NDH]

So, if I can stand in the middle of the table and just do dead blocks and sidespin blocks all day until my opponent puts it in the net, pops it up or goes long, my game is 3D because I know exactly where the ball is gonna go with what kind of spin and pace and I can get away with playing like that?

Perhaps against the level of my opponents, but I somehow doubt my game is considered 3D if I'm playing someone of similar or greater ability, at least until I can learn their game.

So, it's relative to the level of the players? Tomokazu Harimoto played Ma Long terribly one-dimensionally most of the time and got his ass handed to him. His game was not 3D.

If Tomokazu Harimoto would play anyone from here, he'd be blasting balls past us with great deception. His game would be 3D.


?

At the risk of complicating what I believe was supposed to be a simple use of terms - I'll try and break it down.

Everyone at the top of the sport has a 3D game - Even those who get their ass handed to them by Ma Long - No one can get to that level without having a good all around game.

If you do dead blocks and sidespin blocks against a decent player (for humours value, let's say they have a 3D game....), then you'll lose 10 times out of 10 - Of course, it is all relative - If Ma Long did dead blocks and sidespin blocks all day long against you, then yes, you would probably lose.

It's not as simple as black and white - You have to adapt the terminology depending on who you are talking about.

So yeah - In principle..... Lower level players (been playing 1 year, or a few years without coaching), are likely to have a more 2D game.

You can then have really experienced players, who might not be world beaters, but have developed an all around game through sheer experience - This could be called 3D.

You also have inexperienced players who have had tons of coaching and have developed a 3D game very quickly - However, these would be advanced players, even considering their relative lack of experience (2-3 years of playing).

Long story short...... I think it's easy to get caught up on terminology - Especially when it can be open to interpretation.

 

[Archosaurus]

So 3D game is just a buzzword and simply means how good you are at getting the ball on the table in a way that the opponent doesn't like instead of always giving him what he wants, when he wants it?

 

[ttmonster]

I did not say the guy who is doing the blocks is a 3D guy, I told the guy who is getting beaten is a 2D guy .

"I know exactly where the ball is gonna go with what kind of spin and pace "

I believe this is what 90% of table tennis skills is , the rest 10% is physical fitness .

Whether your shot looks like Ma Longs , whether you can move like Ryu Seung Min or you have a backhand like Zhang Jike does not really matter .... unless you have the brains and the mental calm during play to understand what is going on regarding strategy and anticipate where your opponent is going to play . Table tennis is a technique sport till you are learning the technique, its actually speed chess when you are done learning ... and that is the remaining dimension

So, if I can stand in the middle of the table and just do dead blocks and sidespin blocks all day until my opponent puts it in the net, pops it up or goes long, my game is 3D because I know exactly where the ball is gonna go with what kind of spin and pace and I can get away with playing like that?

Perhaps against the level of my opponents, but I somehow doubt my game is considered 3D if I'm playing someone of similar or greater ability, at least until I can learn their game.

So, it's relative to the level of the players? Tomokazu Harimoto played Ma Long terribly one-dimensionally most of the time and got his ass handed to him. His game was not 3D.

If Tomokazu Harimoto would play anyone from here, he'd be blasting balls past us with great deception. His game would be 3D.


?

 

[NDH]

So 3D game is just a buzzword and simply means how good you are at getting the ball on the table in a way that the opponent doesn't like instead of always giving him what he wants, when he wants it?

It is certainly a buzzword - And it can mean different things to different people.

If you asked 100 people what their definition of "3D game", you'd likely get some very different answers.

If you were to ask me personally what my definition of "3D game is" it would be:

All the shots to a strong standard - Forehand Loop, Back Hand Loop, Block, Short Game, Serve.

If they have that (in my opinion), then the ball will get put back on the table - Regardless of who they are playing.

 

[Archosaurus]

So a 3D game is based on solid fundamentals, and when you have them, you can start getting a bit creative and tactical.

Good coaching develops those fundamentals, and thus you can become an advanced player sooner and start playing the game instead of just performing the strokes.


I think a good example of 2D vs 3D game would be a scenario where I was some time ago:

Opponent gets ready for a big flat hit crosscourt to my forehand corner, I retreat a bit and get ready to block or counter it.

His shot slams into the top of the net and pops up 10cm or so. I'm stuck on my forehand wing some feet away.

He says "Yes!" thinking it's over and I'm either not gonna make it or I will just pop it up for a big finisher, but I spotted the net ball early, moved early and got to the ball, then I stare at him while I forehand flip a ball past his left, fading towards his backhand. He had his bat up ready to block from the forehand side, and couldn't ever see it coming.

I guess a 2D game would have been to push it over to his side, or do whatever comfortable return I am used to doing, instead of something unexpected.