Seeking advice for blade choice

[Arman]

Hello! I have been into table tennis quite eagerly for the last year - continuously training and understanding the whole theme.
I started with the first version of Pongfity Samurai and after half a year I upgraded to Stiga Cybershape which I play with right now.
For the backhand, I use Nittaku Fastarch G-1, and Tibhar K1 - forehand. I find it more comfortable to spin using my backhand and play more straightforward on my forehand. My playstyle is attacking and I use my legs a lot to generate more power.

Retrospective on my choice to upgrade to Stiga:
Now I understand and feel that it is too speedy for me - I can't control it with the same consistency and my short game sucks. I feel pretty good with my backhand strokes, but my main pain with this blade is that I can't control my wrist after a forehand stroke. My wrist always shakes and I find it hard sometimes to feel a simple forehand drill.

I am more confident about the choice of my rubbers and looking for a better replacement for my blade.
I was considering the following:

- Butterfly Timo Boll ALC
- Butterfly Innerforce ALC
- Butterfly Visacria

Please, give me advice on a better blade choice that will help me improve by forehand drill and technique in general.

 

[dingyibvs]

I don't think those blades are significantly slower than the Cybershape. What do you mean by wrist shaking anyway? How does that relate to the speed of your blade?

 

[Arman]

I don't think those blades are significantly slower than the Cybershape. What do you mean by wrist shaking anyway? How does that relate to the speed of your blade?

Honestly, I don’t know how to properly put this feeling into words, but I will try to.
So, when I start my training we practice a standard forehand drill, no spinning. I can’t feel and control the speed at this point at all. Especially when I finish a forehand stroke - I feel how loose my wrist is, thus it tilts randomly and my shot is ruined.
However, when I start forehand spin engaging my whole body into movement - it lands nicely and the shot is strong and spiny, also my hand movement is confident and more or less stable
Sometimes it happens on a good day, and I have a good feeling of soft touch and control of the blade when playing, but that doesn’t happen every day. I want to take control over that x)

I hope it was clear

 

[Der_Echte]

Get the uber expensive BTY Super whatever blades with 2x Diginics and conduct show and tell with your TT buddies... maybe buy several of them.

or go with a reasonable inexpensive all wood blade with Aurus both sides and win/improve.

Nah, first choice always better... for bragging among buddies.

 

[Arman]

Get the uber expensive BTY Super whatever blades with 2x Diginics and conduct show and tell with your TT buddies... maybe buy several of them.

or go with a reasonable inexpensive all wood blade with Aurus both sides and win/improve.

Nah, first choice always better... for bragging among buddies.

Dear Dear_Echte,
Thank you for your comment and I respect your experience on TT, but it was just about nothing.

I believe that TT is a great place for a decent and argumentative discussion. To improve my skills and find proper equipment I tried my best to be specific enough to describe my problem thoroughly - so please, be specific enough to give meaningful advice.

 

[dingyibvs]

Honestly, I don’t know how to properly put this feeling into words, but I will try to.
So, when I start my training we practice a standard forehand drill, no spinning. I can’t feel and control the speed at this point at all. Especially when I finish a forehand stroke - I feel how loose my wrist is, thus it tilts randomly and my shot is ruined.
However, when I start forehand spin engaging my whole body into movement - it lands nicely and the shot is strong and spiny, also my hand movement is confident and more or less stable
Sometimes it happens on a good day, and I have a good feeling of soft touch and control of the blade when playing, but that doesn’t happen every day. I want to take control over that x)

I hope it was clear

That's just a matter of practice. When I started playing TT again after an 8 year hiatus, that's exactly how I felt. I was an 1800 level player before, yet when I picked up the paddle again after a long break I literally did not know how to do a FH counter hit warm up. I didn't have a feel for the ball, so I constantly adjusted my racket angle, swing trajectories, etc. Every shot was different, and even when I hit it well it didn't feel great and I couldn't replicate it. My racket would finish in wildly different angles as a result, sometimes open, sometimes closed, sometimes to the left, sometimes more to the right. It was a mess.

Yet, when I started looping, it actually felt alright. The coach I was hitting with remarked that I had a very good FH loop, even though I couldn't counter hit worth shiz. That only lasted a couple weeks. Gradually I got the feeling back, and I was more comfortable counter hitting, but it took a few months before I was able to locate the ball as precisely as before.

 

[Doum]

Do you have the Cybershape wood, as mentioned in your signature? Or carbon?

If you own the Cybershape wood then you just need more practice.

If you own the Cybershape carbon then none of the blade you mentioned is slow, maybe just the innerforce ALC.

If you want to keep your rubbers then the Cybershape allround classic could be a nice training blade.

 

[jk1980]

Let me just give my 2 pence here.
I was playing the Stiga Cybershape Wood and then bought e DHS HL-5 out of curiosity. I thought "hey, when i get good enough, i can upgrade to the HL-5".
I then tested both on a robot, especially the short game, because that is what i thought would be less controllable with a more advanced blade like the HL-5.
It turned out that i was wrong. The HL-5 was more controlled over the table (pushes and short touches) than my Stiga Cybershape Wood (which is probably better for Moregards' hitting style with its stiffness). I then switched to HL-5 and never looked back.

 

[Nivix]

With all due respect, the setup that you’ve upgraded to from a premade bat after just half of the year of training is a pro player setup not a developing player one. If table tennis is really your passion, you need to realise that you’re currently on the edge of making a huge mistake if you go this path, as you will certainly develop tons of bad habbits that will later on cause you nothing but frustration.

You need a setup that will help you develop a proper technic and feel for the ball.

Start with a dynamic all-wood blade of good quality like Nittaku Acoustic/Violin or Korbel JP. Trust me, you will find enough gears with any of these if combined with dynamic rubbers.

Speaking of rubbers, simply go with your favorite brand as currently pretty much all of them provide high quality equipment, but try avoiding anything above 47 degrees hardness (ESN scale) for FH and 45 degrees for BH as well as extremely fast tensor rubbers like Tenergy or MX-P.

Once you get a setup of this kind, really stick with (don’t seek replacement after couple of months) and focus on practice.

Cheers!

 

[Brs]

Any of the three blades you nentionwd are fine choices used by tins of developing players.

Innerforce constructions feels pretty different to the outer carbon of viscaria and tb alc. Many people love that but not everyone. Try some blades and decide if you prefer inner or outer carbon. Then you will have your answer.

 

[dingyibvs]

With all due respect, the setup that you’ve upgraded to from a premade bat after just half of the year of training is a pro player setup not a developing player one. If table tennis is really your passion, you need to realise that you’re currently on the edge of making a huge mistake if you go this path, as you will certainly develop tons of bad habbits that will later on cause you nothing but frustration.

You need a setup that will help you develop a proper technic and feel for the ball.

Start with a dynamic all-wood blade of good quality like Nittaku Acoustic/Violin or Korbel JP. Trust me, you will find enough gears with any of these if combined with dynamic rubbers.

Speaking of rubbers, simply go with your favorite brand as currently pretty much all of them provide high quality equipment, but try avoiding anything above 47 degrees hardness (ESN scale) for FH and 45 degrees for BH as well as extremely fast tensor rubbers like Tenergy or MX-P.

Once you get a setup of this kind, really stick with (don’t seek replacement after couple of months) and focus on practice.

Cheers!

He'll certainly find more than enough gears with the Acoustic, Korbel, etc. With that said, it's not gonna be his equipment choice that'll limit his development, it'll be the attitude that his skills or development will be limited by his equipment.

Keep practicing, and he'll develop just fine. Look to equipment changes as a shortcut to improvement, then he'll be taking the long way home.

 

[Arman]

That's just a matter of practice. When I started playing TT again after an 8 year hiatus, that's exactly how I felt. I was an 1800 level player before, yet when I picked up the paddle again after a long break I literally did not know how to do a FH counter hit warm up. I didn't have a feel for the ball, so I constantly adjusted my racket angle, swing trajectories, etc. Every shot was different, and even when I hit it well it didn't feel great and I couldn't replicate it. My racket would finish in wildly different angles as a result, sometimes open, sometimes closed, sometimes to the left, sometimes more to the right. It was a mess.

Yet, when I started looping, it actually felt alright. The coach I was hitting with remarked that I had a very good FH loop, even though I couldn't counter hit worth shiz. That only lasted a couple weeks. Gradually I got the feeling back, and I was more comfortable counter hitting, but it took a few months before I was able to locate the ball as precisely as before.

Thank you, I was thinking the same that I lack of practice and It will be fixed someday as I get more experience. But this problem makes me feel distracted and of course quality of my training is getting lower.

 

[Arman]

TTD Buddies, thank you for your comments and great advices. I see that my main problem is lack of experience and practice. I made a huge mistake buying such a high-end setup and now I feel that is time to correct it.

My choice now is Butterfly Innerforce Layer ALC with Tibhar K3 (FH) and Tibhar MX-P (BH). I will post an update as soon as I get my opinion on this setup.

 

[Nivix]

TTD Buddies, thank you for your comments and great advices. I see that my main problem is lack of experience and practice. I made a huge mistake buying such a high-end setup and now I feel that is time to correct it.

My choice now is Butterfly Innerforce Layer ALC with Tibhar K3 (FH) and Tibhar MX-P (BH). I will post an update as soon as I get my opinion on this setup.

Really glad that after all the advice you’ve decided to go with equally fast blade with even faster rubber set that you already have. For sure your develpment will be extraordinary. Just watch out for lamps and windows at your club and try not to ask questions again that you don’t really want to hear answers to.

This is exactly how equipment junkies are born.

 

[Brs]

I was going to write keep the same rubbers. Then I remembered Cybershape. Nevermind ….

 

[disaster3]

Really glad that after all the advice you’ve decided to go with equally fast blade with even faster rubber set that you already have. For sure your develpment will be extraordinary. Just watch out for lamps and windows at your club and try not to ask questions again that you don’t really want to hear answers to.

This is exactly how equipment junkies are born.

@Arman agreed with above.
As many advised you will do your development mistake.
To avoid spending much money and have excellent setup which will be perfect for development and will make troubles for opponents in the matches is 7ply allwood blade with 5 ply feeling which is dirty cheap and until now I'm so impressed how it behaves.
It is Donic Persson PowerPlay. Recently was on discount in TT11 for 30Euro but even in regular price 40Euro makes smile on my face how it plays vs all those super/hyper sophisticated blades
Together with let say Donic BlueStorm Z3 or Nittacku FastArc C-1 on BH side and, Nittacku FastArc G-1 on FH side it is a really nasty weapon which will not limit you in anything but will allow you to increase you skills and feel more confident in matches.

 

[NextLevel]

Hello! I have been into table tennis quite eagerly for the last year - continuously training and understanding the whole theme.
I started with the first version of Pongfity Samurai and after half a year I upgraded to Stiga Cybershape which I play with right now.
For the backhand, I use Nittaku Fastarch G-1, and Tibhar K1 - forehand. I find it more comfortable to spin using my backhand and play more straightforward on my forehand. My playstyle is attacking and I use my legs a lot to generate more power.

Retrospective on my choice to upgrade to Stiga:
Now I understand and feel that it is too speedy for me - I can't control it with the same consistency and my short game sucks. I feel pretty good with my backhand strokes, but my main pain with this blade is that I can't control my wrist after a forehand stroke. My wrist always shakes and I find it hard sometimes to feel a simple forehand drill.

I am more confident about the choice of my rubbers and looking for a better replacement for my blade.
I was considering the following:

- Butterfly Timo Boll ALC
- Butterfly Innerforce ALC
- Butterfly Visacria

Please, give me advice on a better blade choice that will help me improve by forehand drill and technique in general.

It is not a bad idea to try a seven ply all wood blade like the Szocs Signature 1 (which also has the benefit of being cheap). However, as dingyibvs pointed out, the biggest things are the patience, the training and the coaching. It takes a lot of time to develop the right mind body connection with a blade and to get someone who can talk you through the process of controlling it. In my view, many people focus on the speed of the blade but the real issue is that too many learners think in terms of power and not in terms of control or feeling. Anyone at any level can use any blade, they just have to put in the hours and weeks and years to develop the feeling. The problem is that people are too focused on missing the table under pressure even in practice, rather than trying to see how their timing and grip pressure and contact points affect their ball control. When you stop focusing on putting the ball on the table and start seeing your blade as an instrument used to control the ball the same way you use your hands to catch, throw and pick up things, you will learn it's full range of possibilities in order to control it. It is when mastering this full range and hitting all kinds of shots including putting the ball into the net, into your side of the table, bouncing and spinning the ball in the air while turning the racket over, catching the ball when it is thrown to you, hitting lobs and sidespins, practicing blocks and pushes, that you truly learn to use a blade. Not just by putting the ball on the table!

Whenever you can't use a blade, it is often more about the the training hours to develop a mind body connection than anything about the blade itself. The only exception is extremely stiff blades but even these blades have fans (like a ZJK T5000), so it is possible for them to work with some styles. But the bottom like is to find something you can connect with. But it is definitely safer to start slower than the blades you have recommended but safer is not what will determine your level, it is your ability to seek feedback during the hours of training required to master the blade.

 

[Arman]

Really glad that after all the advice you’ve decided to go with equally fast blade with even faster rubber set that you already have. For sure your develpment will be extraordinary. Just watch out for lamps and windows at your club and try not to ask questions again that you don’t really want to hear answers to.

This is exactly how equipment junkies are born.

Haha, I think you wasted your time reading my post, because you missed everything I wrote. Please, be a grown man and read the whole thread mindfully and try again to express your opinion.
Citing myself:

However, when I start forehand spin engaging my whole body into movement - it lands nicely and the shot is strong and spiny, also my hand movement is confident and more or less stable
Sometimes it happens on a good day, and I have a good feeling of soft touch and control of the blade when playing, but that doesn’t happen every day. I want to take control over that x)

 

[Arman]

It is not a bad idea to try a seven ply all wood blade like the Szocs Signature 1 (which also has the benefit of being cheap). However, as dingyibvs pointed out, the biggest things are the patience, the training and the coaching. It takes a lot of time to develop the right mind body connection with a blade and to get someone who can talk you through the process of controlling it. In my view, many people focus on the speed of the blade but the real issue is that too many learners think in terms of power and not in terms of control or feeling. Anyone at any level can use any blade, they just have to put in the hours and weeks and years to develop the feeling. The problem is that people are too focused on missing the table under pressure even in practice, rather than trying to see how their timing and grip pressure and contact points affect their ball control. When you stop focusing on putting the ball on the table and start seeing your blade as an instrument used to control the ball the same way you use your hands to catch, throw and pick up things, you will learn it's full range of possibilities in order to control it. It is when mastering this full range and hitting all kinds of shots including putting the ball into the net, into your side of the table, bouncing and spinning the ball in the air while turning the racket over, catching the ball when it is thrown to you, hitting lobs and sidespins, practicing blocks and pushes, that you truly learn to use a blade. Not just by putting the ball on the table!

Whenever you can't use a blade, it is often more about the the training hours to develop a mind body connection than anything about the blade itself. The only exception is extremely stiff blades but even these blades have fans (like a ZJK T5000), so it is possible for them to work with some styles. But the bottom like is to find something you can connect with. But it is definitely safer to start slower than the blades you have recommended but safer is not what will determine your level, it is your ability to seek feedback during the hours of training required to master the blade.

I appreciate your opinion, it was very informative and I caught the idea. Thank you!

Before posting I tried different blades of my tt partners to understand what I prefer more and just to feel the difference. I believe that my progress so far is quite impressive and I understand what I need to do to improve my confidence in the game and skills as well. My choice may look quite impulsive but I've been through pain and blood during my training with Cybershape, self-diguring to understand why my forehand has such a low quality. Now, I have more knowledge about the game and myself as well, I will be responsible for all consequences and If I fail to master my new blade I will switch my setup to one of the suggestions in this thread. Moreover, I will train hard to develop the feeling for my new blade and I really want to, as you said, gain a "mind-body connection" with my new blade.

 

[Arman]

@Arman agreed with above.
As many advised you will do your development mistake.
To avoid spending much money and have excellent setup which will be perfect for development and will make troubles for opponents in the matches is 7ply allwood blade with 5 ply feeling which is dirty cheap and until now I'm so impressed how it behaves.
It is Donic Persson PowerPlay. Recently was on discount in TT11 for 30Euro but even in regular price 40Euro makes smile on my face how it plays vs all those super/hyper sophisticated blades
Together with let say Donic BlueStorm Z3 or Nittacku FastArc C-1 on BH side and, Nittacku FastArc G-1 on FH side it is a really nasty weapon which will not limit you in anything but will allow you to increase you skills and feel more confident in matches.

Thank you for your comment, I will taket that into consideration!