Asking for Strategy against these 2 Players

[blahness]

View attachment 32283
So you say when looping hit it like this but this is also hard to aim to this lefties forehand or even to the middle. This sidespin makes the ball go to his backhand or even out if hit like this (hook).

Not that right, just slightly more on the right side. Yes it will go out to the BH if you hit it perpendicularly. However the stroke trajectory of a hook loop has a curve to it, so if you curve it more towards the right (even when contacting it slightly on the right side), you can even aim to the lefties FH corner this way. The placement all depends on the overall force direction.

Tldr basically just aim your hook loop more towards the right and it will go more towards the right.

 

[Heming Hu]

Match Analysis and tips for Zezima

Hey there! In this video, I analyze gameplay footage to strategize on beating opponents with a more solid game style. I seek your coaching insights on service, receiving, and looping techniques. Watch for tips on handling different spins and maximizing point-winning opportunities. Your feedback...

www.loom.com

Here it is Zezima. Good luck tomorrow!

If you want more help like this, join here for free

Level Up Your 🏓 FREE

Feel great in training but can't win matches? I'll show you how I overcame this issue and how you can do the same!

www.skool.com

Hey everyone,
I am going to play against these 2 players tomorrow. I have played against them almost 2 years ago. I think I have improved more than them in the meantime but they have a more solid "gamestyle" if that makes sense.
Watching these videos. What is your takeaway and how would you coach me and give me tips in terms of what kind of service I should do with the 3rd Ball attack in mind. How should I receive their service (flick,push etc) where to loop if I get the chance and so on.
All I can say is that my backhand loop got much much better but I can´t tell for sure if it´s gonna work on matchday aswell. Either way I am confident I can beat these 2 players.
Against Stefan I won once already so its 1-1 overall. But that was more him making unforced errors that day and me blocking only. And in the last encounter he didn´t really struggle at all.

Enough talking:

 

[Zezima]

Match Analysis and tips for Zezima

Hey there! In this video, I analyze gameplay footage to strategize on beating opponents with a more solid game style. I seek your coaching insights on service, receiving, and looping techniques. Watch for tips on handling different spins and maximizing point-winning opportunities. Your feedback...

www.loom.com

Here it is Zezima. Good luck tomorrow!

If you want more help like this, join here for free

Level Up Your 🏓 FREE

Feel great in training but can't win matches? I'll show you how I overcame this issue and how you can do the same!

www.skool.com

First of all thank you for the video analysis Heming Hu - Much appreciated!

I found it very easy to understand in this format. And also noted the keypoints down.
I think I have got lots of stuff written down now and lets be fair its gonna be not so easy to transform all that into matchplay tomorrow. I would be glad if I could do some of them we talked about here.

As you already saw those serves are all long. Be more careful on how he hits these balls to see the spin properly. So I will try to loop them from the get go. Also good tip with the blocking, that I have to press down and forwards more than just holding the racket "loose".

Also yes I am the righty (its a playlist of each set against both players) 196cm tall.

Leg wise my brain knows to move but it only makes upper body adjustment and legs are kind of "stiff" all the time. I don´t know how to relax my legs so it doesn´t lose the flexibility to move around. Especially on match days it feels like my legs are rooted of exhaustion. I have started with fitness (more serious with a full body workoutplan 8weeks ago) and I have a feeling it didn´t get much better to counteract the exhaustion in the legs? I do normal squats, lunges and so on for the legs....

Anyway. I will film myself tomorrow and you guys will see how I played and most importantly how I am currently playing in a match. And I think further analysis also makes more sense on the games tomorrow rather than on those videos I linked here that is almost 2 years ago.

So I would be happy if you were ready to give feedback on the videos that are coming tomorrow!

 

[dingyibvs]

First of all thank you for the video analysis Heming Hu - Much appreciated!

I found it very easy to understand in this format. And also noted the keypoints down.
I think I have got lots of stuff written down now and lets be fair its gonna be not so easy to transform all that into matchplay tomorrow. I would be glad if I could do some of them we talked about here.

As you already saw those serves are all long. Be more careful on how he hits these balls to see the spin properly. So I will try to loop them from the get go. Also good tip with the blocking, that I have to press down and forwards more than just holding the racket "loose".

Also yes I am the righty (its a playlist of each set against both players) 196cm tall.

Leg wise my brain knows to move but it only makes upper body adjustment and legs are kind of "stiff" all the time. I don´t know how to relax my legs so it doesn´t lose the flexibility to move around. Especially on match days it feels like my legs are rooted of exhaustion. I have started with fitness (more serious with a full body workoutplan 8weeks ago) and I have a feeling it didn´t get much better to counteract the exhaustion in the legs? I do normal squats, lunges and so on for the legs....

Anyway. I will film myself tomorrow and you guys will see how I played and most importantly how I am currently playing in a match. And I think further analysis also makes more sense on the games tomorrow rather than on those videos I linked here that is almost 2 years ago.

So I would be happy if you were ready to give feedback on the videos that are coming tomorrow!

Moving isn't something you just "remember" to do, it's something that's trained extensively so that you it's ingrained in your muscle memory. Do you have someone who can feed you multiball or access to a robot? A very simple drill that's helped me a lot is simply having balls served to your BH side at a high frequency, say 80 balls/min for topspins and 60 balls/min for backspins and you have to hit them with BH and FH alternatingly. Do that until you can hit both BHs and FHs with the same quality as if you're not alternating, and that would be a good start.

Another thing that helps is that when you're doing usual basic trainings like FH against blocks and BH counters, try to add a bit of feet shuffle to each stroke. If you're not doing that already, you'll find out quickly that just by shuffling your feet without actually moving anywhere your consistency will decrease dramatically. Train until that's no longer the case. Shuffle your feet, and actually move to be at the optimal position for each ball.

The key thing to remember is that movement is a part of your stroke. It should be just as inseparable from your stroke as moving your arm.

 

[Heming Hu]

First of all thank you for the video analysis Heming Hu - Much appreciated!

I found it very easy to understand in this format. And also noted the keypoints down.
I think I have got lots of stuff written down now and lets be fair its gonna be not so easy to transform all that into matchplay tomorrow. I would be glad if I could do some of them we talked about here.

As you already saw those serves are all long. Be more careful on how he hits these balls to see the spin properly. So I will try to loop them from the get go. Also good tip with the blocking, that I have to press down and forwards more than just holding the racket "loose".

Also yes I am the righty (its a playlist of each set against both players) 196cm tall.

Leg wise my brain knows to move but it only makes upper body adjustment and legs are kind of "stiff" all the time. I don´t know how to relax my legs so it doesn´t lose the flexibility to move around. Especially on match days it feels like my legs are rooted of exhaustion. I have started with fitness (more serious with a full body workoutplan 8weeks ago) and I have a feeling it didn´t get much better to counteract the exhaustion in the legs? I do normal squats, lunges and so on for the legs....

Anyway. I will film myself tomorrow and you guys will see how I played and most importantly how I am currently playing in a match. And I think further analysis also makes more sense on the games tomorrow rather than on those videos I linked here that is almost 2 years ago.

So I would be happy if you were ready to give feedback on the videos that are coming tomorrow!

no problem brother

Yes, these things I gave you are more short term/medium term improvements rather than quick fixes that'll help you tomorrow, but do whatever you can. Winning doesn't need to be pretty, it just needs to be done.

When it comes to fitness, it helps to be in shape, etc. But realistically, someone like Usain Bolt is still going to move on a ping pong court, worse than Wang Hao and Ma Lin when they were chubby (and these legends often were chubby lol). It's more about moving CORRECTLY, rather than being a fast human (it does help though)

This video will help you, I'm sure of it:

Sure, if you post it on my Skool page, I analyse the videos even if its a longer form. (still please edit out anything that is not the points itself)

Good luck tomorrow

 

[Zezima]

Moving isn't something you just "remember" to do, it's something that's trained extensively so that you it's ingrained in your muscle memory. Do you have someone who can feed you multiball or access to a robot? A very simple drill that's helped me a lot is simply having balls served to your BH side at a high frequency, say 80 balls/min for topspins and 60 balls/min for backspins and you have to hit them with BH and FH alternatingly. Do that until you can hit both BHs and FHs with the same quality as if you're not alternating, and that would be a good start.

Another thing that helps is that when you're doing usual basic trainings like FH against blocks and BH counters, try to add a bit of feet shuffle to each stroke. If you're not doing that already, you'll find out quickly that just by shuffling your feet without actually moving anywhere your consistency will decrease dramatically. Train until that's no longer the case. Shuffle your feet, and actually move to be at the optimal position for each ball.

The key thing to remember is that movement is a part of your stroke. It should be just as inseparable from your stroke as moving your arm.

Its not about remembering. It´s that I get the info from my legs that they are exhausted. And my upper body just is like ok then I will compensate for that... I need to get rid of the exhaustion in the legs somehow.

 

[dingyibvs]

Its not about remembering. It´s that I get the info from my legs that they are exhausted. And my upper body just is like ok then I will compensate for that... I need to get rid of the exhaustion in the legs somehow.

I see. I used to get that too, playing soccer once a week cured that in about 2 months I used to do a lot of squats, lunges, etc. as well. They're good for building muscle but it wasn't super helpful for endurance or explosiveness. Just playing TT and doing footwork drills doesn't work either, because as you've noticed once your legs are tired you start losing form and missing shots. At that point, we usually take a break because there's no point in practicing when you can't maintain form or hit anything.

Playing soccer though, you have no choice but to keep running. In the beginning my legs would be so exhausted that I'd literally just tumble over and fall in the middle of a run. But the game doesn't stop for you, you just have to get back up and keep running. Even if you can't really shoot or pass or defend anymore just by keep running you can occupy passing lanes or force a defender to defend you. Your teammates are relying on you, so you keep those exhausted legs churning. That builds up leg endurance reaaaaal fast! Before soccer, I'd play/practice hard enough so that my legs are in a constant state of soreness, yet I'd still be exhausted after playing 3 straight matches (I play low and rely a lot on my legs). After a couple of months of soccer, I've played 9 straight matches and it'd feel like a walk in the park.

 

[Zezima]

I see. I used to get that too, playing soccer once a week cured that in about 2 months I used to do a lot of squats, lunges, etc. as well. They're good for building muscle but it wasn't super helpful for endurance or explosiveness. Just playing TT and doing footwork drills doesn't work either, because as you've noticed once your legs are tired you start losing form and missing shots. At that point, we usually take a break because there's no point in practicing when you can't maintain form or hit anything.

Playing soccer though, you have no choice but to keep running. In the beginning my legs would be so exhausted that I'd literally just tumble over and fall in the middle of a run. But the game doesn't stop for you, you just have to get back up and keep running. Even if you can't really shoot or pass or defend anymore just by keep running you can occupy passing lanes or force a defender to defend you. Your teammates are relying on you, so you keep those exhausted legs churning. That builds up leg endurance reaaaaal fast! Before soccer, I'd play/practice hard enough so that my legs are in a constant state of soreness, yet I'd still be exhausted after playing 3 straight matches (I play low and rely a lot on my legs). After a couple of months of soccer, I've played 9 straight matches and it'd feel like a walk in the park.

I play 2h soccer once a week sundays aswell. Sometimes I get injuries and have to skip the next few days. The next 2 days I would get soreness (which got less and less combined with fitness training). I would feel like a grandpa afterwards before I added full body workout.
To be honest before (till like a year ago) I didn´t loop as much as I am doing right now. Each loop feels like a squat on its own. But good to hear it fixed for you!
I might also just exhaust myself too much. I skipped workout last 2 days so didn´t do any sports activities other than just simple walking. Even skipped Sunday football (not gonna call it soccer lol).
Kind of excited already its gonna start in 4h. Don´t wanna disappoint me or anyone who gave me good advice.

I don´t know about a free good just a simple cut video software. So I am just gonna ask my brother to record each point.

 

[KM1976]

A simple strategy is to play percentages. This is what I try to follow when I cannot think of anything more sophisticated.
On a given day, somethings will work and somethings will not. So even though a player might be highly skilled in all the strokes, he might feel slightly off on certain strokes and this could be beyond his or her control. So see how you feel, and then take baby steps in the right direction.
Another thing to realize is that you do not have to bring a bazooka in a fist fight. Meaning, you might have some awesome shots to leave a smoke trail on the other side of the table but you should decide on what to use, again play percentages.
Be mentally prepared to play a 10 ball rally, if you particularly struggle against an opponent, then take this count to 15 balls.
Keep the approach simple and restricted to first 3 balls. So that you can revisit it as needed and change it. Many people infer SIMPLE as EASY. Well, these are two different words and have entirely different meaning. So keep it SIMPLE.
For me, if I lose a point in a rally, then my brain automatically suggests me changes in my approach, but if I miss receiving a serve, then I feel frustrated. So try to construct a rally and probe your opponent's weaknesses.

 

[Zezima]

Alright. We won 8:4 as a team(we thought it´s gonna end 4-8). I won the doubles and 3x singles 3-2,3-2 and 3-1 (against their best - Stefan).
I will post the games here once I upload it on my channel. Tomorrow we have the next game.

 

[dingyibvs]

Alright. We won 8:4 as a team(we thought it´s gonna end 4-8). I won the doubles and 3x singles 3-2,3-2 and 3-1 (against their best - Stefan).
I will post the games here once I upload it on my channel. Tomorrow we have the next game.

Congratulations! Looking forward to see your victories on video!

 

[Zezima]

Here are all 3 matches. Started really good into the first set vs Manfred M. and then not so much lol. Against the other 2 I did a lot of points straight with my service.

How could I have stopped Ines from attacking when she has the serve? Felt like she even attacked the half longs.

Excited to get your feedbacks!

 

[blahness]

Here are all 3 matches. Started really good into the first set vs Manfred M. and then not so much lol. Against the other 2 I did a lot of points straight with my service.

How could I have stopped Ines from attacking when she has the serve? Felt like she even attacked the half longs.

Excited to get your feedbacks!

I watched just a bit and it seems like you were very aggressive in looping this time which worked really well as you can see.

Ines only serves BH pendulum or FH tomahawk which is pretty much the same sidespin archetype. She serves it a lot to your short FH or half long which is the hardest place to receive. You only had the soft flick or soft push option which will for sure get attacked/looped. So options are:

1) Learn a true short FH push against BH pendulum (ie low and min double bouncing) - watch the Fang Bo tutorials on how to do it.

2) More aggressive long pushes. Right now it seems like you only do the soft variant but dont do the fast long hard push variant to middle or wide angles which is usually the killer.

3) FH sideswipes

4) More aggressive FH flicks with better placement. You can learn to use more body and feint them using fake movements.

5) Use BH receive for eg BH chiquita or BH short push or long pushes or BH pancake flip

6) Looping the half long serves - advanced technique but it can be done.

Most importantly, only short push can reliably shutdown an attack. The others all can be looped, however you can reduce the quality of the loop sufficiently that you can do a quality counter against the opening loop to enter at least a 50-50 topspin rally, and by that time you have succeeded in neutralising the server's advantage and you should be happy enough. If you always soft block yeah aggressive attacking loopers worth their salt will just eventually overwhelm you.

 

[dingyibvs]

Here are all 3 matches. Started really good into the first set vs Manfred M. and then not so much lol. Against the other 2 I did a lot of points straight with my service.

How could I have stopped Ines from attacking when she has the serve? Felt like she even attacked the half longs.

Excited to get your feedbacks!

Watched the first video so far, your footwork looks better! It's especially evident when you're preparing for a 3rd ball attack with your FH. OTOH, you don't move at all when you try to open up with your BH. In fact, you don't move much with BH shots in general. That resulted in you missing all your BH opening loops except for one that was long and high and floated right into your BH hit zone. That won't happen very often and you'll need to move the hit zone to the ball.

It's a similar story for the rally, you hit some really nice shots when the ball is in your hit zone on either the FH or BH side, but way too often it's because the ball came to it and not because you moved your zone to the ball. In a rally the ball is faster and you're farther from the table, so more movement will be required if you want to get more of your sweet loops in on both wings.

 

[dingyibvs]

Watched the 2nd game now. Against Ines, IMO she could've beaten you if she was more patient. She doesn't have a lot of power, and I think she pressed too much to try to finish the point after you extended the rally a few times and occasionally successfully counter attacked. If she would just be patient and added in some pace change shots with more spin and less speed I think she could've won. She does one thing very well which is timing her acceleration. A lot of your attacks against half-long balls tank into the net because you accelerate too early. It's crucial to bring the racket closer to the ball before accelerating in order to loop half long balls.

Learning how to receive short is a very long process, it's easier to learn how to prevent a quality attack first. She hardly made any BH shots during the game, I don't think I recall a single BH opening loop. I assume she's rated where she is because of a weak BH, because her FH is fundamentally pretty solid. She's very good at attacking floaty returns which happen when you try to return short but are unable to do so, so I think the best way to prevent her from launching attacks is not trying to return short. I think you could've challenged her BH more instead. A block return to her BH against her topspin serves, and long pushes to her wide BH against her backspin services. If she starts pivoting early then switch it up to her wide FH instead. Just making her think about protecting her BH will make her weaker on the FH side as well.

Also, notice how in the first point of the 3rd set, at the 2:50 mark, you moved to your right to get the ball into your BH hit zone, and you made a nice BH opening loop? That's what you need to do more often to get more consistent with your BH opening loops.

 

[Der_Echte]

A simple strategy is to play percentages. This is what I try to follow when I cannot think of anything more sophisticated.
On a given day, somethings will work and somethings will not. So even though a player might be highly skills in all strokes, he might feel slightly off on certain strokes and this could be beyond his or her control. So see how you feel, and then take baby steps in the right direction.
Another thing to realize is that you do not have to bring a bazooka in a fist fight. Meaning, you might have some awesome shots to leave a smoke trail on the other side of the table but you should decide on what to use, again play percentages.
Be mentally prepared to play a 10 ball rally, if you particularly struggle against an opponent, then take this count to 15 balls.
Keep the approach simple and restricted to first 3 balls. So that you can revisit it as needed and change it. Many people infer SIMPLE as EASY. Well, these are two different words and have entirely different meaning. So keep it SIMPLE.
For me, if I lose a point in a rally, then my brain automatically suggests me changes in my approach, but if I miss receiving a serve, then I feel frustrated. So try to construct a rally and probe your opponent's weaknesses.

Look at KM1976's first sentence and burn that shyt into your forearm.

TT match play is all about realizing and striving for percentages.

I often in person tell players that amateur TT is about controlling Dracula. (your urge to increasing go for too much at the wrong time/wrong/poor leverage)

You lost WAY more points trying some attacks at half power out of time or position or perception of ball vs the old dude Manfred.

All you had to do was give him low and deeper underspin and he would have twisted himself into a Bavarian Brezel for you gratis. Playing a more allround style giving him low and deeper underspin balls, then attacking a few of his safe balls back to you would have put a lot more fear into him. You have the shots to do all of what I just said (and whatKM1976 said).

When you tried to play him less powerful topspin, he troubled you. With this dude, you had to realize you had to give him tempting low percentage underspin ball to give you points or figure out how to get a predictable ball to go heavy on.

KM1976 advise to you to keep tactics very simple, intuitive, well understood and again simple means that you could and should be able to play without consciously thinking that slows you down and makes you miss point or think like a brain dead player. Result is you play quicker with more initiative and less mistakes. let the other guy F it up if he is willing... just be ready to pound him when he declines the attack at a midnight Esso diesel fuel credit card transaction that got declined.

KM1976 is giving you outstanding advise here.

if Der_Echte as a certified umpire was an umpire at that match, I would called Herr Manfred's serves illegal 80+ percent of the time and pissed him smooth off... then I would said a few things in south/north German about his contempt for basic serve rules and maybe his choice of shoes that would have really got him red hot mad angry.

I guess in German is goes something like "Geduld !!" "Lass ER alle die Fehler machen" but it loses a lot saying it in German... in American English, there are fewer phrases that express it so well at "Let the other guy Fluff it up"

 

[Der_Echte]

The short and not so funny to say all of what I said is to attack less, give him low, deep underspins, then when you DO choose the attack, you are ready... and do it strong and win points... then your opponent goes and cries to the trainer asking him what he must do now that he has zero chance vs you.

 

[dingyibvs]

Watched the 3rd game now, the only one we have a comparison with. Stefan doesn't look to have really worked on his game. His services look better, but he looks like he's he's expecting either an ace or a big pop up that he can just casually kill. That IMO is the main difference between you two right now. You're both pretty similar in service/receive and rallies, but after you serve you're moving in preparation for a 3rd ball attack, he rarely does so. He ends up missing a lot of opportunities to attack your returns and is the exact opposite of Ines in this regard.

Your footwork after services and in receives have improved significantly, and you have the stroke structure on both wings to launch some real powerful shots consistently. If you focus on expanding your footwork to more parts of your game, I think you'll see a dramatic improvement in your game in just a couple of months.

 

[dingyibvs]

The short and not so funny to say all of what I said is to attack less, give him low, deep underspins, then when you DO choose the attack, you are ready... and do it strong and win points... then your opponent goes and cries to the trainer asking him what he must do now that he has zero chance vs you.

That's easier said than done IMO. How many low, deep pushes did he do in any of his videos? Pushing needs a lot of practice too, and I just don't think it's in his repertoire right now. He should definitely learn that though, it's very useful even against high level players.

 

[Der_Echte]

That's easier said than done IMO. How many low, deep pushes did he do in any of his videos? Pushing needs a lot of practice too, and I just don't think it's in his repertoire right now. He should definitely learn that though, it's very useful even against high level players.

YES, you bring up the related point that even many advanced players do not know how/when/what to do for a quality push to get them out of trouble, avoid trouble, or set the opponent up for trouble.

I still believe though that deeper low non attacking shots would have given him better percentages overall vs Herr Manfred.

When I saw a comment about manfred's serves, I did not think the OP would handle them well, but OP did not miss on many of manfred's blatant illegal serves.