Backhand rubbers? Is d09c too much for a beginner-intermediate player?

[jk1980]

Look. People like telling others that something is not suitable for them based on statistics and word of mouth.
I have used a Nittaku Acoustic before and simply find the FZD ALC easier to control. That's me, not someone else.
Both rubbers I'm using are fine, I've just never liked the feel of soft rubbers and the dwell that comes with it.

If I flip my racket over and use tge C1 on the BH, it feels much better. I was simply looking for something spinnier as an alternative and I saw d09c widely being used, so I wanted to see what the fuss is all about.

it strongly depends on who you play with and against. I know a lot of player do play a very open and long game that enables you to play counters and topspins all the time. In this scenario your blade may very well be controllable enough.

But now and then you will stumble upon playing against an old guy that only does very short pushes and fights tooth and nail not to play the open long game, but only underspin pushes und short game. If you are not very good at opening up or flipping, you will end up terribly frustrated and losing to a guy that "can't play properly", but will outlast you in the pushing rallies, because it is all he ever did for all his live with his ALL- blade and classical rubbers without much catapult.

I was in the same camp as you using faster blades (Xiom TMXi, AZXi and so on) and did not feel any need for more control, but that was because the opponents let my play that game.

 

[SleepyMaster]

it strongly depends on who you play with and against. I know a lot of player do play a very open and long game that enables you to play counters and topspins all the time. In this scenario your blade may very well be controllable enough.

But now and then you will stumble upon playing against an old guy that only does very short pushes and fights tooth and nail not to play the open long game, but only underspin pushes und short game. If you are not very good at opening up or flipping, you will end up terribly frustrated and losing to a guy that "can't play properly", but will outlast you in the pushing rallies, because it is all he ever did for all his live with his ALL- blade and classical rubbers without much catapult.

I was in the same camp as you using faster blades (Xiom TMXi, AZXi and so on) and did not feel any need for more control, but that was because the opponents let my play that game.

There should be no problem at all to push, when you really in control of your carbon blade. My first carbon blade came in to me, when i was playing for 3 months. Previous ones where BTY primorac japan, Nittaku acoustic, and then something in between carbon and allwood BTY Timo Ball caf. I played with them all for a month maybe. After that i have myself innerforce zlc with 09c both sides, and the ball feeling and my control are actually increased only, when i did it.

But when i asked my coach, before buying some new blade, he was advising me to play with Primorac with tenergy05fx, for at least three years, and he is a wise man and a very good coach 😁 But after few months, he admitted, that he was wrong - there is an exceptions. But also he started to point, that i have and advantage over the other team players, because of a good setup. So main idea, that you can decide by yourself, maybe you will made an mistake, or the opposite - it’s will gives you an level up. And one more thing, i have trained a lot, so for me was easier to getting used to carbon blade.

It can be useful to try some new things, if it’s too much for you, you always can go make a step back to an older setup 🏓

 

[NextLevel]

There should be no problem at all to push, when you really in control of your carbon blade. My first carbon blade came in to me, when i was playing for 3 months. Previous ones where BTY primorac japan, Nittaku acoustic, and then something in between carbon and allwood BTY Timo Ball caf. I played with them all for a month maybe. After that i have myself innerforce zlc with 09c both sides, and the ball feeling and my control are actually increased only, when i did it.

But when i asked my coach, before buying some new blade, he was advising me to play with Primorac with tenergy05fx, for at least three years, and he is a wise man and a very good coach 😁 But after few months, he admitted, that he was wrong - there is an exceptions. But also he started to point, that i have and advantage over the other team players, because of a good setup. So main idea, that you can decide by yourself, maybe you will made an mistake, or the opposite - it’s will gives you an level up. And one more thing, i have trained a lot, so for me was easier to getting used to new carbon blade.
It can be useful to try some new things, if it’s too much for you, you always can go make a step back to an older setup 🏓

Do you play against a lot of choppers and pips players?

 

[NextLevel]

This sentence really piqued my interest. And why do I say so?

Here's the thing.

1. In my mental picture, I have envisioned myself to be a Euro styled two wing looper or at least that is the direction I want to head towards. Maybe it looks cool to me, maybe I am a show-man, I don't know...

2. But when I watched the playback of my own match video, I am mostly a close to table counter-driving / hitting / blocking , i.e., the so called Japanese style ( T. Harimoto being the archetypal of this style as well as most of the Japanese female players ).

3. Some posters ( from another thread ) says I don't know how to spin the ball well. I am guilty as charged.

4. Now I come to the bolded sentence above. Thinking retrospectively, I recall something peculiar. In my coaching session, whenever I tried to spin or heavy loop my FH, my coach will says don't over loop. Baby spin is ok, heavy spin and you make the ball slow & spinny. I want you to hit more / drive more. It would appears my coach prefers speed over spin. I don't know why? Maybe he sees more value in speed / drive over spin.

5. Looking back at point Nos. 4, this could be a reason why I am not a spin oriented player as seen in my match video and it seems my coach has something to do with it.

6. Thanks to the original poster for bringing up this point and helped me to retrospectively unearth why I am not so good at spinning the ball.

Getting the balance right is difficult, but if you started learning late, it is easier if you want to be consistent to focus on spin. Then you can flatten out the ball more if you are able to. be consistent doing so either by getting thicker contact or using faster equipment or some combination of both. But flattening out the ball all the time without learning how to spin makes it much harder to expand your game as an adult learner except you are exceptionally physically fit as flat hitting requires you to take the ball early almost all the time.

There are still a few players (mostly old school) who watch my game and say I am not a spin player. In fact, there are some players who get more spin than I do with my current setup. While my game is spin based, it is often drive spin based, which is very different from a true looping spin based game.

 

[SleepyMaster]

Do you play against a lot of choppers and pips players?

I played against a long pips, played against short pips. Played a lot against that type of an older guys, that mostly serve shirt no spin/under spin, and then trying to push everything till the sun goes down, that @jk1980 have mentioned, i guess. Playing against long pips is the hardest part, if the player is descent with it. So sometimes my coach just taking long pips, and we are doing few types of a drills: I loop, he doing heavy longpips chop, i push back, and after he pushing again i got an no spin/slightly topspin ball, that easy to loop kill. And for second i just trying to loop as many times as i can, against a longpips chops.
In my experience, if the opponent knows how to use longpips, and mixing it with twiddling and topspin’s - those are really hard opponents. But sometimes, people using pips just to win more games, with almost no proper knowledge how to use them - their are much easier to win, but can be tricky too. Pips on amateur level are working pretty well

 

[NextLevel]

I played against a long pips, played against short pips. Played a lot against that type of an older guys, that mostly serve shirt no spin/under spin, and then trying to push everything till the sun goes down, that @jk1980 have mentioned, i guess. Playing against long pips is the hardest part, if the player is descent with it. So sometimes my coach just taking long pips, and we are doing few types of a drills: I loop, he doing heavy longpips chop, i push back, and after he pushing again i got an no spin/slightly topspin ball, that easy to loop kill. And for second i just trying to loop as many times as i can, against a longpips chops.
In my experience, if the opponent knows how to use longpips, and mixing it with twiddling and topspin’s - those are really hard opponents. But sometimes, people using pips just to win more games, with almost no proper knowledge how to use them - their are much easier to win, but can be tricky too. Pips on amateur level are working pretty well

It was playing against the pips that kept me coming back to wood blades, that was why I asked. Maybe if I had a better forehand back then, it wouldn't have mattered as much.

 

[SleepyMaster]

Do you play against a lot of choppers and pips players?

Actually, i played an amateur tourney ones. And the most difficult game was against a guy, who’s rubbers just became antispin and he didn’t even mention it. So after i serve my favorite heavy sidespins, he just blocked and i get ball back with crazy of a trajectory, and unknown spin with almost no ability to execute third ball. Since i never played against antispin, i lost first two games to him. After that i have changed my tactics, and was able to comeback 3:2. I became 2nd at that tourney, losing in a final to a guy, that was about 2200-2300 level when he was 18, and he been doing TT since he was a child. But now only doing it from time to time, since giving it all his life before and get bored. He was able to beat me, but those was pretty fun match and experience since ex and high level players should not be allowed to this tourney. But again i got a lot of fun 😌

 

[dingyibvs]

It was playing against the pips that kept me coming back to wood blades, that was why I asked. Maybe if I had a better forehand back then, it wouldn't have mattered as much.

I like carbon blades against pips as well. Too long of a rally and it's easy to misplay a ball, with carbon blades it's easier to just blast one past them and finish the point.

 

[SleepyMaster]

I like carbon blades against pips as well. Too long of a rally and it's easy to misplay a ball, with carbon blades it's easier to just blast one past them and finish the point.

Agree. When i firstly played with a long pips player, First thing that the guy is asking me, when he loses few points after my forehand loops was: What are the blade you using, bro? Those are fast balls 😀 With innerforce blade you can spin as good as allwood, didn’t notice much difference, plus you have that carbon punch. But i lose those game anyway, he was just too good of a defender for my level at that time.

 

[NextLevel]

I like carbon blades against pips as well. Too long of a rally and it's easy to misplay a ball, with carbon blades it's easier to just blast one past them and finish the point.

That makes sense, I guess it comes down to style. There was this medium pips penholder that sometimes used short pips, he was a nightmare if his blocks were on as you would always make the first shot but he would make the first block and the ball would come back so loaded that if you couldn't reloop with confidence, you were effed. And if you popped it up, he would give you that pips hit and then you had to reloop that ball and that was really were wood shone for me as I could loop that ball more easily with wood. But I wish I could play him now and see whether it was all in my head lol.

 

[TampaBayTableTennis]

Not sure, but I am going to find out...

 

[dingyibvs]

That makes sense, I guess it comes down to style. There was this medium pips penholder that sometimes used short pips, he was a nightmare if his blocks were on as you would always make the first shot but he would make the first block and the ball would come back so loaded that if you couldn't reloop with confidence, you were effed. And if you popped it up, he would give you that pips hit and then you had to reloop that ball and that was really were wood shone for me as I could loop that ball more easily with wood. But I wish I could play him now and see whether it was all in my head lol.

Against SP blockers I typically play normal, their blocks usually are fairly similar to inverted blocks. Against MP or LP blockers usually I try to avoid brush loops to their pips side. I try to look for an opportunity to go for a full powered drive. Not sure what it is about LP, but it seems like they can't block drives as well as inverted players. Against inverted players if they successfully block my drive it'll come back with a lot of speed and spin and is a real threat to me. Against LP they land it a lot less often and even when they do it's usually high, long, and slow, allowing me to drive again.

 

[blahness]

They are lasting for a long time: 6-7 months forehand minimum, and still maintain a lot of grip and quality, cuz i have really hard forehands. I only changing because i have buy about 10 09c, or so. I guess, most amateurs, can used it for more than a year. For backhand durability are even better, because my backhand didn’t have so much power, i mostly trying to open up with it, and spin, opposite to forehand that im trying to power loop with.
Don’t get misunderstood by one thing that 09c has - it’s quickly lose it’s shining, in comparing to D05 and even D80. But those lose of a shine, don’t bother playing characteristics at all. Hard sponge also lasts very long, there is no cracking on the sides, even after 6-7 months, like softer tenergys always do after a month. So in my humble opinion, for an amateur, it should be even more beneficial to invest in a rubber that last for year+, than changing to 3 of a different brands rubbers a year. But again, this rubber is made for spin, for flat hitting there are better options

Hmm interesting - my last 09c lasted only max 4 months before a huge drop in spin generation performance which completely defeats the purpose of using 09c (to get the killer spin). A few of my training partners experienced the same. Maybe you got a good batch and we all got a terrible batch

Anyway I've since discovered Hurricane 8-80 38 deg which I love a lot - has similar spin generation capabilities as 09c imo.

 

[SleepyMaster]

Hmm interesting - my last 09c lasted only max 4 months before a huge drop in spin generation performance which completely defeats the purpose of using 09c (to get the killer spin). A few of my training partners experienced the same. Maybe you got a good batch and we all got a terrible batch

Anyway I've since discovered Hurricane 8-80 38 deg which I love a lot - has similar spin generation capabilities as 09c imo.

I guess, it depends on how you take care of your rubber, the weather conditions, the power of you strokes. I do clean mine with a BTY cleaner and put an adhesive protect on them, and they going in to the case, strictly after every practise. Plus there is not super humidity environment, where i live. But again, maybe it’s a batch, but I’m not sure about it. My coach have played with two D05 with year+ and he still can spins with it like a maniac. And this is with no special cleaner or whatsoever. D09c should be even better in terms on longevity, considering harder sponge, and a top sheet. But as i told already - it depends on many factors

 

[dingyibvs]

I guess, it depends on how you take care of your rubber, the weather conditions, the power of you strokes. I do clean mine with a BTY cleaner and put an adhesive protect on them, and they going in to the case strictly after every practise. Plus there is not super humidity environment, where i live. But again, maybe it’s a batch, but I’m not sure about it. My coach have played with two D05 with year+ and hi still can spins with it like a maniac. And this is with no special cleaner or whatsoever. D09c should be even better in terms on longevity, considering harder sponge, and a top sheet. But as i told already - it depends on many factors

I do all that, except it's been an unusually wet winter in Cali so it's been pretty humid. I noticed that at around 100 hours of play it starts to lose some grip with very fine brushes, but I've pushed one past 150 hours and it plays fine 99% of the time since even brush loops usually engage the sponge.

You can try rubbing your knuckle over the sweet spot then over the part near the handle where you never hit the ball with. I think you'd be able to feel a slight difference in grip. My current one has about 80 hours on it and I can feel a slight difference.

 

[SleepyMaster]

I do all that, except it's been an unusually wet winter in Cali so it's been pretty humid. I noticed that at around 100 hours of play it starts to lose some grip with very fine brushes, but I've pushed one past 150 hours and it plays fine 99% of the time since even brush loops usually engage the sponge.

You can try rubbing your knuckle over the sweet spot then over the part near the handle where you never hit the ball with. I think you'd be able to feel a slight difference in grip. My current one has about 80 hours on it and I can feel a slight difference.

I don’t disagree, there should be difference after you actively using rubbers, and practise hard. But it not so impactful on playing characteristics of a rubber if we talking about 09c. The point is, in my experience, even after 200 hours - it still can lift any amount of a underspin, still very good for serve, you can give a huge amount of a spin by playing topspins, good for counterloops etc. And the dudes in my gym, who played with tenergy05fx, and hitting hard forehands with it - changing a lot more often, and it worn out much more quickly

 

[blahness]

I guess, it depends on how you take care of your rubber, the weather conditions, the power of you strokes. I do clean mine with a BTY cleaner and put an adhesive protect on them, and they going in to the case, strictly after every practise. Plus there is not super humidity environment, where i live. But again, maybe it’s a batch, but I’m not sure about it. My coach have played with two D05 with year+ and he still can spins with it like a maniac. And this is with no special cleaner or whatsoever. D09c should be even better in terms on longevity, considering harder sponge, and a top sheet. But as i told already - it depends on many factors

Weird... I've experienced also incredible longevity with my D05s (year+ without that much degradation), while my D09cs just deteriorated like crazy. It was getting increasingly spinless and much worse than D05 - my friend even thought he was playing with some pre-made bat lol.

That said I do hit quite hard on the FH though, but it shouldn't be that bad. I reckon it's just a bad batch

 

[shat1478]

I used dg09c both side around 10months . I can say it woeking well on Fh but BH not. Because sticky and very hard sponge. If you have not perfect stroke. The ball will go no quality. For mme dg05 best for BH.