Be honest guys: you don't need carbon blades

[Der_Echte]

Nate's Alaska Barch all-wood blade with MX-K on FH is still such a boss even 2 yr old rubber, sounds illegal and it blasts.

 

[ProgramCrazy]

I've been looking at this thread for a while, debating if I made the wrong move by getting a carbon blade. I was doing some looking online to see what the carbon was all about and saw that it enlarges the sweet spot. I thought that was beneficial so I decided to upgrade from my DHS Windseries W3020 (penhold) to a Hurricane 301T. I looked at some reviews on revspin.net for the Hurricane 301 seeing that it was a very popular blade that wasn't too stiff or hard (4.2 stiffness and 5.4 hardness). I then saw that the 301T was the newest model so I got that.

One thing that I have noticed is that it is a little hard to control and that there isn't a lot of feeling, especially when looping. It kinda feels like hitting the ball with a slipper when the carbon activates. Would it be wise to move back to 5-ply? I feel that carbon might be too advanced for the level that I am at.

Thanks! I can also provide more information if needed!

 

[DukeGaGa]

I've been looking at this thread for a while, debating if I made the wrong move by getting a carbon blade. I was doing some looking online to see what the carbon was all about and saw that it enlarges the sweet spot. I thought that was beneficial so I decided to upgrade from my DHS Windseries W3020 (penhold) to a Hurricane 301T. I looked at some reviews for the Hurricane 301 seeing that it was a very popular blade that wasn't too stiff or hard (4.2 stiffness and 5.4 hardness). I then saw that the 301T was the newest model so I got that.

One thing that I have noticed is that it is a little hard to control and that there isn't a lot of feeling, especially when looping. It kinda feels like hitting the ball with a slipper when the carbon activates. Would it be wise to move back to 5-ply? I feel that carbon might be too advanced for the level that I am at.

Thanks! I can also provide more information if needed!

If you find it hard to control, and lacks feeling, and can’t get used to it even after training for a few weeks. Then it’s probably right to say you should switch back to using an all wood blade, preferably a softer one.

 

[ProgramCrazy]

If you find it hard to control, and lacks feeling, and can’t get used to it even after training for a few weeks. Then it’s probably right to say you should switch back to using an all wood blade, preferably a softer one.

I figured that might be the case. I also use the Hurricane 3 neo for my forehand, do you have any blade recommendations that will go well with it? I know that the Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive is popular for penhold, but it is currently out of stock on Tabletennis11.

I might make a thread about blades later, but I figured that I might get some early insight on this thread first.

Thanks!

 

[DukeGaGa]

I figured that might be the case. I also use the Hurricane 3 neo for my forehand, do you have any blade recommendations that will go well with it? I know that the Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive is popular for penhold, but it is currently out of stock on Tabletennis11.

I might make a thread about blades later, but I figured that I might get some early insight on this thread first.

Thanks!

After using TSP/Victas SWAT series, I’ve been recommending that to a lot of people. Reasonably priced, good feeling, really good quality and pre-sanded shoulders. It’s also been the best selling blade series in Japan for many years now. I would recommend the SWAT or even the SWAT 5pw if you want really good feel.

 

[Aizen]

h301 is not the hardest or most stiff blade, but it is definitely at hard of side of spectrum due to koto outer surface. Also T version may not fast and stiff like X but still would be harder to use it comparing to original.

but any way, all wood is great option if you have issues with carbon as others said. Also grabbing one of limba-inner carbon blades is an option too.

 

[Way Zooted]

I recently started playing with an acoustic carbon inner (purchased from Duke) after about three years with all wood acoustic. So far this is the only carbon blade that I like. Very similar feeling in both acoustics with a little more speed and larger sweet spot with the carbon inner. I think the all wood acoustic has a little more rebound on slower and more passive stokes/blocks. I do like all wood koto but always found carbon/koto to be too hard.

 

[sebi]

I play with a Ovtcharov innerforce alc, because i like the feel of carbon blades more. I don´t think for speed or spin carbon is necessary, but the feeling it gives it totally different. Wood vibrates more and carbon gives a stiffer feel.

 

[SrSTT]

There is no universal answer to what equipment everyone should use. Nor does "so and so uses (or doesnt use) blahblahblah so that makes it good/bad" prove anything. Use what works best for You.
Sure, listen to all the advice you can stand, borrow your buddies'/clubmates' gear for a trial, check your wallet's status, then make your best choice by deciding what you like the best. We are all different skill levels, ages, fitness, financial status, injury history, eyesight, reaction times, soberness, and on and on and on.

And its never Need, its Want. And there's nothing in the world wrong with that. I still play with Shriver rubber now and again just for nostalgia's sake. (i actually won a retro tourney last year at my club using Shriver on a 1971 3ply Glen Cowen bat against modern rubbers/blades).

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

You don't need carbon blade.

Moments later...

Simon Gauzy unfriend you.
Patrick Franziska unfollow you.
Timo Boll unsubscribed you.
Ma Long puts you on ignore.

 

[JJ Ng]

I agree that you don't need carbon blades. However, I do like the stiffness that carbon blades give. I don't like vibration in my hand.

I still have some wood blades I fool around with. It is weird. But on wood blades, I use harder sponge rubber on my BH side such as MX-S and G-1. However, on carbon blades, I use softer rubbers such as EL-P, FX-D, Xiom Vega Asia/Japan, Barracuda, etc.

When I first got a fresh sheet of MX-S, I did not know where to put it. I simply could not control it. But the moment I put it on a wood blade, the rubber comes alive for me.

Therefore I find it very odd that people would buy a certain rubber after trying a clubmate's rubber on a DIFFERENT blade than your own blade. In other words, you don't know the answer until you put a rubber on your own blade and figure it out yourself.

 

[SleepyMaster]

To be honest we don’t even need a table tennis were we can’t use whatever we wanted to lol.

Joke aside - before the conclusion we need to understand the context and the goals of a player and most of the time they would be sooooo much different.

I can play with whatever I want to play and afford - same as others players. And to be honest I’m having fun to testing some new racket or a rubber - so why I shouldn’t? I’m not making it for a living rather just for fun.

Does many amateurs using too fast equipment for their level? Yes! Does it bother them too much? No, because they are playing just for fun and if they wanted to miss 70% of their shots - let’s gooooo!!

Pure wood rackets having all we need to play - other thing is just personal preferences and sometimes curiosity.

 

[rbtitco]

Why do we have to keep reading these posts. Play whatever you want, who gives a shit?

 

[JJ Ng]

Why do we have to keep reading these posts. Play whatever you want, who gives a shit?

Because a lot of people want to save money and try to get the "perfect" equipment in one shot. Obviously, perfect equipment does not exist. But for some players, they eventually figure what equipment is good enough for their levels and they stick to it.

For example, I like hard Chinese rubbers on the forehand side (either Hurricane 3 neo provincial blue sponge or Sanwei Target National blue sponge) and soft ESN rubbers on the backhand side (such as Barracuda, C-1, etc.). I keep my blade the same on all the set up's. Now I just need to wear down the damn rubbers.... I think I have enough supply of rubbers in my house to last 3 more years. Lol

 

[Cadoia]

I remember when I dropped wooden blades and started using carbon blades instead. I started winning games I never won before. It was a clear step up in the right direction.

 

[turbozed]

I used to be in the camp of thinking someone should wait for as long as possible before switching to carbon. Was planning to stick to all wood for at least a few years.

But my coach suggested that I consider a switch to carbon after about a year and a half so I did.

There wasn't a huge difference in feel from a 7 ply wood to a 5+2 inner. My shots weren't going long and the short game wasn't affected at all. The carbon is only activated when I'm hitting hard and that's not something that happens unintentionally while using Chinese rubber. It's hard enough hitting through a 52 degree sponge.

Another factor which is important is that my coach was teaching me technique as he knows it when all his students are using carbon blades. When I switched I noticed shot quality improve across the board because the equipment was more a match for the coaching.

There's probably a big subset of players using softer bouncy rubbers and whose technique varies in the power range where the ball impact sometimes involves carbon activation and sometimes doesn't. Im guessing it's these people that more often have problems of unpredictability or control.

I guess the point is that the decision comes down to a lot of factors individual to the players circumstances and what rubber they're using.

I think a lot the tried and true wisdom passed down from the previous generation also may need revision due to the new ball, and the need to hit through it more. More powerful pretension rubber was made to compensate. But maybe an equally valid (and definitely cheaper) way of compensating is just to switch to carbon and still use more linear rubbers.

 

[Lazer]

I used to be in the camp of thinking someone should wait for as long as possible before switching to carbon. Was planning to stick to all wood for at least a few years.

But my coach suggested that I consider a switch to carbon after about a year and a half so I did.

There wasn't a huge difference in feel from a 7 ply wood to a 5+2 inner. My shots weren't going long and the short game wasn't affected at all. The carbon is only activated when I'm hitting hard and that's not something that happens unintentionally while using Chinese rubber. It's hard enough hitting through a 52 degree sponge.

Another factor which is important is that my coach was teaching me technique as he knows it when all his students are using carbon blades. When I switched I noticed shot quality improve across the board because the equipment was more a match for the coaching.

There's probably a big subset of players using softer bouncy rubbers and whose technique varies in the power range where the ball impact sometimes involves carbon activation and sometimes doesn't. Im guessing it's these people that more often have problems of unpredictability or control.

I guess the point is that the decision comes down to a lot of factors individual to the players circumstances and what rubber they're using.

I think a lot the tried and true wisdom passed down from the previous generation also may need revision due to the new ball, and the need to hit through it more. More powerful pretension rubber was made to compensate. But maybe an equally valid (and definitely cheaper) way of compensating is just to switch to carbon and still use more linear rubbers.

In reality the difference is that with carbon you can control weight, stiffness, hardness and thickness better. But just because it’s a carbon blade doesn’t make it better. The right allwood blade in my opinion is better, but it’s hard to find. If you have the one hang on to it…

I have a candidate which currently is too fast and too stiff, but I’m getting closer and closer…
As soon as my short game is up to par I will switch.

It’s an SDC blade (372).
hinoki/sucupira/kiri/sucupira/hinoki

It’s NOT Kiso and sucupira is a hard south American wood used for I.e. floors.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Crillo]

This carbon-hunt is a bit funny. If you buy a fast Butterfly carbon blade and put on some Dignics 05 or Tenergy 05 MAX, and have played for say less than 5 years. Of course you have a huge problem. But there are wooden blades that are as fast as all these carbon blades as well. So if you slap the Butterfly rubbers on these wooden blades, you will still have a lot of trouble.

The biggest problem is that non experienced players, use setups made for more advanced players, and they get "bounced" away. Many players/parents want to take shortcuts to get ahead, but the only thing they do is prohibiting themselves/their kids to learn proper technique and prepare them to be able to handle these setups in the future.

I have a friend whose children play table tennis since a year back. The kids are 7 and 9 years old, and he asked a coach what rubber he should buy for them. Tenergy 05 MAX was the answer. Because the coach himself plays Tenergy 05. And the youngest already had a fast Yasaka Offensive blade to put these rubbers on. These kids must have the opportunity to practice their technique for some years before even thinking about these kinds of rubbers and blades.

Now the youngest plays with Sanwei Fextra Allround and Sanwei Ultra Spin on both sides instead and feels that he for the first time has control over the game, have to work to get the ball over the net and is practicing his technique.

Now we perhaps moved away from the topic, but I think this is important and it could have something to do with all these carbon thoughts I guess.

This is my exact experience to. Tenergy 05, fast blades etc to young kids who can´t do three rounds of Falkenbergaren. When the same kid tries a slower blade the confidence comes and they start work harder and win more games.

 

[disaster3]

Since my comeback I tried a lot of blades and rubbers to check what is all about with 40+ balls and blades/rubbers adjustment to this. Just to be clear even after my comeback i had a strong background (was playing as a kid/ teenager in the club and in leagues. So I just required an adjustment with my strokes to new standards but my memory muscles remains. I can play whatever I take but the main idea is to find what makes you feel the most confident under pressure. Someone says I will not touch Tenergies rubbers as they are too bouncy, but I like them the most in terms of control/speed and spin.
In terms of blade not sure how to categorize my main blade as it is neither allwood nor carbon 🤣
It is Timo Boll ZLF, (old version) equipped in T05/t19 and this is all I need to be happy.
But the dark force whispers to my ears and EJ is strong in my body 🤣
That’s why I was tempted and bought q968 Nat to give a try 😜

 

[NextLevel]

I feel a bit like you.

The idea of this thread it's fare and interesting to me.

At this point i tried most blade types, 5ply, 7ply, inner alc, outer alc/zlc, limba vs koto vs hinoki. I would say i play up to maybe 2% better or worst with some of them. So thoose tests are noting more than EJeing.

After quitting TT for more than 10 years i returned with a Zhang Jike Alc (most my base was with a Primorac Carbon), played well in trainings but in competition the feel/control (you name it) lacked.

Then one step back to go two further, buyed a clipper type blade and that as something like i've never tryied up to that point, IT WAS AWSOME!!! because of the feel and control... But after 2 seasons, "the problem" was it lacked precision, vibrates too much for my taste.

So i went to an inner alc (tested a bunch of them), and surprise... IT WAS AWSOME!!! the allwood feel, carbon precision felt it was easier to control and block. But after 1 season, "it lacked" top speed to outright finish a point.

So, since a was liking limba alot i tried a outer carbon, Mizutani ZLC type blade, and it was... you guessed it, AWSOME!!! Crisp, fast, low arc, tough to catch the attack for the opponent, keeping the good limba feel to brush and control the ball. But, after another season, the arc of ZLC on forehand felt inconsistent or to low, tryied diferent rubber there but never "solved it".

Humm... getting out of options now... VISCARIA, the one most people praise and use. And it was AWSOME, so consistent close or further from the table, bh and fh so crisp (probably cause of the Koto), at this time with hybrid rubber its easyer to control (than Zhang Jike at the beggining with tebergy 05). So Viscaria is working very good but...

Last session glued the good old 7ply and... IT WAS AWSOME!!! So much control and feel, everything felt better once more, i even think it's faster than the innerforce i had, and pretty close to Viscaria Speed, only the consistency might not be as perfect as with carbon.

To end the ramble, each people preffer what they preffer, it's personal, and most blade combinations are really good, but all of them have pro's and con's.

I surely can play with the ones i described at the same level, the problem is being an EJ, it's not that the blades lack something. It's just that at some point I'll be able to "find" flaws in all of them 😂

Not necessarily. If you decide how you want to win points, it becomes clearer that some blades are better suited than others and you can use rubber changes or just accept the blade and keep with it for two or more years. It also helps to be using something a player you respect uses so you can always use what they do as a barometer for where you should be. Part of the reason why I stuck with Dignics 05 on both sides now on Viscaria SALC (and if not it would be Harimoto SALC) is that in addition to helping out my weakness (it controls topspin really well), it is used by Kanak Jha. Dignics 05 is used on both sides by Harimoto including when he plays Lin Shidong or Liang Jingkun so I can't use equipment as an excuse at any level (Kanak has already shown, just using Harimoto as further confirmation).