Best serve receive tutorials?

[TensorBackhand]

What are the best serve return video tutorials that you have seen and recommend most? I've seen a few of them and wondering if there are any outstanding ones?

I've seen:

Of these, I found the video from "Rational TT" to be best. It's a systematic receive theory that gives 3 return options for each type of serve, low risk, medium, and aggressive.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

MT Table tennis (@Matt Hetherington)

 

[TensorBackhand]

Another interesting video. This guy's serve is so annoying. I cannot read it at all.

 

[Matt Hetherington]

Different approach but maybe it’ll be useful for some people

 

[NextLevel]

 

[pong99]

What are the best serve return video tutorials that you have seen and recommend most? I've seen a few of them and wondering if there are any outstanding ones?

I've seen:

Of these, I found the video from "Rational TT" to be best. It's a systematic receive theory that gives 3 return options for each type of serve, low risk, medium, and aggressive.

Hire a coach to work on serve receive. In your other thread about trying to get from from 1900 to 2100 you talk about not wanting to hire a coach.

This is where you need a coach.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I like the short videos from Nakamura Twins. Very simple and effective tips

 

[XpingpingpongpongX]

My biggest problem is reading whether a serve is short or fast and long. When can you tell the ball placement? right after the paddle hits the ball? when the ball is crossing the net? For me, it's usually when the ball hits my side of the table, which is too late.

I have to put most of my attention to read the spin, so I cannot anticipate the length. And there must be some tricks and details that I don't know.

 

[NextLevel]

My biggest problem is reading whether a serve is short or fast and long. When can you tell the ball placement? right after the paddle hits the ball? when the ball is crossing the net? For me, it's usually when the ball hits my side of the table, which is too late.

I have to put most of my attention to read the spin, so I cannot anticipate the length. And there must be some tricks and details that I don't know.

Since you are asking, it is likely to be relative to amateur playing level. The earliest time to anticipate is usually the first bounce on your opponent's side well before it crosses the net.

For a serve to be really fast and deep and push you back or rush you, it needs to hit really early on the opponent's side. If that doesn't happen, then you usually will have time to play the serve.

1. Most serves are long enough to be attacked unless the server is skillful. But you need to have practiced half long serve return especially on forehand to have the patience to watch the ball as even some serves that look short come close to the endline and while you can attack them, if you haven't practice, you will think it is dangerous and not swing.

2. Most down the line serves drift long unless the server is skillful.

3. Any serve that drifts long, if you prepare for it you can attack it, which is why reading the first bounce to see whether it is coming fast is critical. Because if it is not that fast, you can even pivot and select your placement.

4. Finally, even when a serve is short, if it is not well served, it is usually high, and that makes it attackable over table, sometimes not only with flicks, So don't base everything on serve length, height is also important.

Practice a lot of half long serve recognition and return and it usually becomes a matter of personal technique and judgment.

 

[XpingpingpongpongX]

Since you are asking, it is likely to be relative to amateur playing level. The earliest time to anticipate is usually the first bounce on your opponent's side well before it crosses the net.

Of course amateur level. Harimoto wouldn't come here and ask how to return Wang's serves right? XD

So you would actually pay attention to where exactly the ball hits the table? not just by the feel of how fast the ball goes? I can give that a try. It sounds very different and will probably take me a while to get used to.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

watching the 1st bounce is not enough
you need to include everything, the feel, the speed, the weight of the shot (power or soft) and even your understanding of the opponent.

higher level, we will look at before the bounce and at first bounce the service return is in motion already and waiting for the ball (have already moved and everything)

if you are worried about spin, or not able to read the spin, this will require more in depth.
is it you reading correctly, but too slow, or simply you can't overcome the spin. There are many factors.

 

[NextLevel]

Of course amateur level. Harimoto wouldn't come here and ask how to return Wang's serves right? XD

So you would actually pay attention to where exactly the ball hits the table? not just by the feel of how fast the ball goes? I can give that a try. It sounds very different and will probably take me a while to get used to.

Well, a lot of TT learning is really exposure to scenario and adaptation through some mix of trial and error or coached feedback. So just facing serves will answer your question to some degree but here is the logic:

To serve really fast, a serve has to come fairly low and fast through the table. To do that, it has to cross at barely net height and bounce low. To do that, it needs a bounce close to the endline on the opponent's side so it can come at you fast. In fact, to serve faster in general, whether short or long, you need to serve closer to your endline.

Usually, the spin and the depth of the first bounce on your side from the opponent's serve will determine whether it is short or not. Sidespin gives a longer path through the table and backspin tends to slow down forward momentum, but they can still go long if the bounce is too deep or there is too much energy on the ball. But if the serve is not extremely fast, which you will be able to tell from the first bounce on the server's side, then you have time to look at and guess and assess the rest. It is the situation that rushes you extremely that you need to be prepared for first and foremost. In TT, as with most things, training tends to make you guess faster and make you more comfortable as you see that things are really not as fast as you think. Usually, the faster a serve, the more likely it is to come long unless the server is extremely skilled. But even slow serves drift long or at least drift attackable, especially down the line. And many shortish topspin serves drift long as well.

One of the tips a top coach gave me that helped me a lot over time was this: if you are using short serve returns (pushes, flicks) and you are repeatedly making errors in the serve return, you are likely using short serve return techniques on long serves. One of the reasons my why game is uncomfortable for adult opponents is that I attack a lot of serves that many players push because the push is very overused to return serves at intermediate adult levels. People just don't realize that a lot of serves are loose if you practice attacking half long serves a lot.

A lot of this is really just ideas to fuel better judgment, ultimately practice is practice, there is no perfect substitute for it. But if you learn to loop balls relatively late as opposed to jumping on them right after the bounce, you will be able to loop many serves with confidence and your ability to read them will improve.

 

[XpingpingpongpongX]

watching the 1st bounce is not enough
you need to include everything, the feel, the speed, the weight of the shot (power or soft) and even your understanding of the opponent.

higher level, we will look at before the bounce and at first bounce the service return is in motion already and waiting for the ball (have already moved and everything)

if you are worried about spin, or not able to read the spin, this will require more in depth.
is it you reading correctly, but too slow, or simply you can't overcome the spin. There are many factors.

I think I can read the spin most of the time, except for the occasional no toss illegal serves. It's just the arm motion right before hitting the ball. I know what to focus on. But for serve length and speed, I wasn't sure what I could focus on. Now I got something to work on.

 

[XpingpingpongpongX]

Well, a lot of TT learning is really exposure to scenario and adaptation through some mix of trial and error or coached feedback. So just facing serves will answer your question to some degree but here is the logic:

To serve really fast, a serve has to come fairly low and fast through the table. To do that, it has to cross at barely net height and bounce low. To do that, it needs a bounce close to the endline on the opponent's side so it can come at you fast. In fact, to serve faster in general, whether short or long, you need to serve closer to your endline.

Usually, the spin and the depth of the first bounce on your side from the opponent's serve will determine whether it is short or not. Sidespin gives a longer path through the table and backspin tends to slow down forward momentum, but they can still go long if the bounce is too deep or there is too much energy on the ball. But if the serve is not extremely fast, which you will be able to tell from the first bounce on the server's side, then you have time to look at and guess and assess the rest. It is the situation that rushes you extremely that you need to be prepared for first and foremost. In TT, as with most things, training tends to make you guess faster and make you more comfortable as you see that things are really not as fast as you think. Usually, the faster a serve, the more likely it is to come long unless the server is extremely skilled. But even slow serves drift long or at least drift attackable, especially down the line. And many shortish topspin serves drift long as well.

One of the tips a top coach gave me that helped me a lot over time was this: if you are using short serve returns (pushes, flicks) and you are repeatedly making errors in the serve return, you are likely using short serve return techniques on long serves. One of the reasons my why game is uncomfortable for adult opponents is that I attack a lot of serves that many players push because the push is very overused to return serves at intermediate adult levels. People just don't realize that a lot of serves are loose if you practice attacking half long serves a lot.

A lot of this is really just ideas to fuel better judgment, ultimately practice is practice, there is no perfect substitute for it. But if you learn to loop balls relatively late as opposed to jumping on them right after the bounce, you will be able to loop many serves with confidence and your ability to read them will improve.

Although I don't have high quality loop/flicks, I attack a lot on service return too, as long as I am not out of position. Like you said, many serves are attackable. But when playing against people who serve long and short, left and right, I usually lose confidence and mess up a lot because I am a bit too late to adjust my position. I guess part of it is my mentality. And I usually think that only if I can react a little bit earlier.

 

[NextLevel]

Although I don't have high quality loop/flicks, I attack a lot on service return too, as long as I am not out of position. Like you said, many serves are attackable. But when playing against people who serve long and short, left and right, I usually lose confidence and mess up a lot because I am a bit too late to adjust my position. I guess part of it is my mentality. And I usually think that only if I can react a little bit earlier.

Level difference shows up in many ways, but if a player is close to your level, the most important thing is to not let the player use fake or misleading cues to take your focus off the ball. Usually, I try to use big body motions to serve slow dead balls for example, because I want you to think the ball must be loaded for example. Or I will show an open paddle and a cutting motion before the serve and then serve short side top into the middle of the table. IF you aren't deciding too early, you will usually be fine. And you usually have more than enough time as long as you don't misreact to the fast long serve. In fact, I sometimes step back off the table and only come towards the table after the serve. While I know some pros lay their rackets on the table, I have preferred letting the ball come long and going in only if it is short,

But you need to learn to loop long serves, practice and make your topspin on them confident and higher quality. It can literally change your playing level.

This video could have been me in some ways to be honest though I don't play with that level of athleticism lol.

 

[XpingpingpongpongX]

Level difference shows up in many ways, but if a player is close to your level, the most important thing is to not let the player use fake or misleading cues to take your focus off the ball. Usually, I try to use big body motions to serve slow dead balls for example, because I want you to think the ball must be loaded for example. Or I will show an open paddle and a cutting motion before the serve and then serve short side top into the middle of the table. IF you aren't deciding too early, you will usually be fine. And you usually have more than enough time as long as you don't misreact to the fast long serve. In fact, I sometimes step back off the table and only come towards the table after the serve. While I know some pros lay their rackets on the table, I have preferred letting the ball come long and going in only if it is short,

But you need to learn to loop long serves, practice and make your topspin on them confident and higher quality. It can literally change your playing level.

This video could have been me in some ways to be honest though I don't play with that level of athleticism lol.

I have powerful FH loop, so people usually don't serve to my FH, except for occasional surprises. And my BH attack consistency really depends on my position, so being able to read the serve length is quite important to me. So I am planning to only focus on reading the ball placement next time I play. It's okay to misread the spin. I would want to see if I could actually predict the placement earlier. Thanks for the tips.

And you probably play at a high level. I rarely see a player (~2100 rating and below) with effective misleading moves when they serve. It's something that many advance players overlook.

 

[NextLevel]

I have powerful FH loop, so people usually don't serve to my FH, except for occasional surprises. And my BH attack consistency really depends on my position, so being able to read the serve length is quite important to me. So I am planning to only focus on reading the ball placement next time I play. It's okay to misread the spin. I would want to see if I could actually predict the placement earlier. Thanks for the tips.

And you probably play at a high level. I rarely see a player (~2100 rating and below) with effective misleading moves when they serve. It's something that many advance players overlook.

I am 1900-2000, not that high level. IT's just that when you learn older, the things that are gaps in your game at the same rating level are not the same as kids with a few exceptions.

 

[blahness]

My biggest problem is reading whether a serve is short or fast and long. When can you tell the ball placement? right after the paddle hits the ball? when the ball is crossing the net? For me, it's usually when the ball hits my side of the table, which is too late.

I have to put most of my attention to read the spin, so I cannot anticipate the length. And there must be some tricks and details that I don't know.

With higher level servers you have no idea of knowing. So you need to react faster. I know some people guess but that is not my preferred way and if you guess too much and get unlucky you will lose really badly.

1) bend forward until your eyes are literally around net height like a cat ready to pounce. This allows your eyes to get more information from the serve. Takes some physicality but it is extremely useful.

2) When the server is about to hit the ball, drop your centre of gravity lower to preload your legs so that they are ready to spring wherever you need to go.

3) Chase the ball with your legs. Do not reach with your hands, this is the no.1 bad habit in table tennis - all good shots need to be body supported not just the hand. So usually this is a chasse step (并步) to wherever the ball is.

4) at the same time while chasing the ball with your feet you need to be watching the entire trajectory of the serve with your eyes. This will tell you where the ball will land. The location and speed to the 1st bounce is very important. Short serves cant be too fast to the 1st bounce, and the 1st bounce will likely be at somewhat around the middle between the end and the net. Topspin kicks/accelerates at you, backspin slows down, and no spin floats.

5) usually if you did the prev steps you are in good position to make your shot with max amount of info. It is also important to use shots that are tolerant of slight misreads of the incoming spin and especially use the incoming sidespin to your advantage (rather that attempting to brute force overcome the spin). I previously wrote a lot on this.

 

[lightspin]

Obviously look at the motion, the contact, look at the arc of the ball, look at the label and make a judgement. There is one thing the top people do and think about that the average player completely overlooks.

A professional player who has beaten a former #1 in the world in an important competition (trying to keep the people anonymous) told me that you have to look at the totality of what the person does during their service motion and then memorize what they do to read the serve. They might have a super deceptive motion with their hands but their elbow might tell the truth. They might approach the table differently, toss the ball differently, tilt their nose differently, lean their shoulder differently or follow through differently.

A players racket motion might be so deceptive that it is impossible to tell what is going on. Something else they do should allow you to figure things out.

 

[Larshos]

This is good