Blade & Rubber suggestion/recommendation - starting over

[UpHill_Battle]

A silly question...
It depends on the player...

Cheers
L-zr

apologies.

I had a bad experience with coach, it's in the thread, regarding blade and rubber - that's is why I am asking the community. Don't get me wrong, I did get some very informative inputs here.

Rubber hardness and weight may depend on player - true. I was only asking you guys as you have more experience, and maybe some audience are actually just starting with the sport late ~ just like my case.

 

[boretennis]

with my hiatus, my age and mobility, limited time of play -- any of blade and cheaper rubber is fine.

The blade I am eyeing is yasaka sweden extra or the the neottec voodoo classic.
The rubbers I am not sure hence my inquiry. So a 729 Battle 2 Silver 40deg and Yinhe Jupiter 3 Asia 39deg is fine to start with? Am I getting this correctly

well, a Battle 2 in 40° would be too demanding for me personally, i have 38° on FH which makes me work hard enough for my taste. since you keep mentioning your hiatus, age, mobility and limited time of play i would suggest something a bit more easier accessible, maybe one of the ones @mocker88 mentioned in post #5. especially since you said your play is more topspin than power. you will need power for a Battle 40°.
and maybe something tacky on one side, and untacky on the other, so you can try both and see what works better. i tend to flip my bat sometimes, depending on where i need the tack.
but, hey, it sounds like your more of a casual player, if you fancy playing those two rubbers you mentioned than just go ahead, you will get used to it and make it your racket and have fun.

 

[mocker88]

well, a Battle 2 in 40° would be too demanding for me personally, i have 38° on FH which makes me work hard enough for my taste. since you keep mentioning your hiatus, age, mobility and limited time of play i would suggest something a bit more easier accessible, maybe one of the ones @mocker88 mentioned in post #5. especially since you said your play is more topspin than power. you will need power for a Battle 40°.
and maybe something tacky on one side, and untacky on the other, so you can try both and see what works better. i tend to flip my bat sometimes, depending on where i need the tack.
but, hey, it sounds like your more of a casual player, if you fancy playing those two rubbers you mentioned than just go ahead, you will get used to it and make it your racket and have fun.

Yes, I absolutely would say that these rubbers are extremely spin sensitive with their tackiness and grip. And they demand a lot of power from your body and really good foot work. Like @boretennis says, the softer, not that extremely grippy rubbers would certainly fit you better, at least to begin with. If you're not used to harder Chinese rubbers, choosing Battle II and Jupiter III Asia will be really disappointing for you and hard to play with.

 

[Tyce]

OK so @UpHill_Battle my biggest questions here:
- what rubbers did you play with?
- how were they? you mentioned bad experiences, in what way?
- can you get other hardness levels, or other rubbers, for that nice cheap price?
If you want something just to restart with and last you a couple of months, get that AK47, or even cheaper Yinhe Mercury 2. 729 Super FX in the same cost ballpark. 3 different rubbers for cheap
(AK47 being the most bouncy/fast option, Mercury 2 slow/spinny/soft, Super FX harder, more Chinese-tacky)

I also found your previous, quite similar, thread from last year

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/need-recommendation-and-suggestion-for-someone-new-to-sport.32640/

You already mention Battle 2 and Jupiter 3 in there, so I guess you know how that plays, right?

 

[UpHill_Battle]

@boretennis @mocker88 @Tyce

appreciate your inputs. I think I an still get enough power with 40deg - this is my initial assumption. I am hesitant as with 2 chinese rubbers with hardness as it is might be to heavy.
Yes, I have tried this rubber combination before but only due to lack of knowledge and was not eager to spend on rubbers. They were ok, but heavy, I easily get tired especially on looping/loop kill drills. I was also warned that 40deg chinese rubber is designed for boosting. I don not boost, nor remove rubber, boost and reglue (not good at regluing - misaligned)

And yes, due to TT club not welcoming to new comers (as they expect since adult at my age should already be at least intermediate or minimum their level) - I quit the game ~ again. I also had bad experience with coach, as I had a fextra7 but was told clipper was better, sanwei was easy to splinter or chip off feeeling is dead, advised me to get another blade. I got the fextra..then coach still advised to get clipper any version.

from last year..I really did quit due to TT club experience, coach, club players and equipment not match (or maybe it did not match as I was not having fun with it)

 

[UpHill_Battle]

- what rubbers did you play with?
- how were they? you mentioned bad experiences, in what way?
- can you get other hardness levels, or other rubbers, for that nice cheap price?
If you want something just to restart with and last you a couple of months, get that AK47, or even cheaper Yinhe Mercury 2. 729 Super FX in the same cost ballpark. 3 different rubbers for cheap
(AK47 being the most bouncy/fast option, Mercury 2 slow/spinny/soft, Super FX harder, more Chinese-tacky)

I also found your previous, quite similar, thread from last year

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/need-recommendation-and-suggestion-for-someone-new-to-sport.32640/

You already mention Battle 2 and Jupiter 3 in there, so I guess you know how that plays, right?

I played with Battle 2 silver and Jupiter 3 asia both on 40deg hardness.
Bad experience are elaborated in the above post.
Yes, I can buy another hardness or rubber. I was just thinking as I am, yet again, restarting I would go for something cheap. Until now it seems hard chinese rubbers are cheap. I am not sure on other option.

Are there chinese rubbers for restarting players just enough bounce and good with spin and control?
Or the one oyu have mentioned already, AK47, mercury and super fx.
I do prefer chinese as it seems cheaper in my country than tensor ones.

 

[Tyce]

@boretennis @mocker88 @Tyce

appreciate your inputs. I think I an still get enough power with 40deg - this is my initial assumption. I am hesitant as with 2 chinese rubbers with hardness as it is might be to heavy.
Yes, I have tried this rubber combination before but only due to lack of knowledge and was not eager to spend on rubbers. They were ok, but heavy, I easily get tired especially on looping/loop kill drills. I was also warned that 40deg chinese rubber is designed for boosting. I don not boost, nor remove rubber, boost and reglue (not good at regluing - misaligned)

And yes, due to TT club not welcoming to new comers (as they expect since adult at my age should already be at least intermediate or minimum their level) - I quit the game ~ again. I also had bad experience with coach, as I had a fextra7 but was told clipper was better, sanwei was easy to splinter or chip off feeeling is dead, advised me to get another blade. I got the fextra..then coach still advised to get clipper any version.

from last year..I really did quit due to TT club experience, coach, club players and equipment not match (or maybe it did not match as I was not having fun with it)

That's sad but let me play devil's advocate here: do they expect adults to be good already, or do they expect adults to be proactive and asking for guidance where they need it?
I'm really not trying to be a d*ck here, but I see this environment here too, where people will just leave you alone until you ask for something. And 9/10 times it's because they expect that if you need something, you're old enough to just ask.

I think maybe you hit a bad coach, or a bad club culture. Or the coach got annoyed about equipment questions because they aren't relevant at this point. And it's made you incredibly insecure about the equipment you're starting with, but you don'y need to be insecure. What you need is not the perfect rubber or blade, what you need is 6-12 months of practice using anything half decent. It doesn't matter what that is.

You're talking about getting tired on loopkills - but if you're a beginner you honestly don't really have any business doing repetitive loopkills anyway. If you're playing a tournament on that level, there will not be a single point on the entire day where you need the skill to play more than one loopkill in a row. I am not a beginner, and I hardly ever encounter the situation where I need to play two high-powered loops in a row.

The important skills as a beginner and intermediate player, and I dare say even for advanced players, are:
- applying spin to a ball
- reading spin on the ball
- placing that ball where you want it to go
- having your body and feet in the right place to do these things

and that's it.

Smashes are extra
Loopkills are extra
Trickery is extra
Using fast equipment is extra
Even difficult serves are extra.

You can achieve all those things with something cheap like PF4 on that Fextra. But what if you do follow the coach's advice and got a Clipper with the rubbers he thinks would currently fit you well?
One, Clipper is a great blade. If anything, you end up with a good blade that can last you a long time.
Two, it shows the coach you're willing to listen to his teachings. Some coaches need that kind of gesture to see you're committed.
Three, coach has *actually* seen you play where we haven't. He might have a very good point in his suggestions.

Talk to the guy, like really talk. You're both adults, you can explain the situation, even explain that you feel a bit lost but you still would love to learn the game. It's not the end of the world.

 

[mightymouse]

And yes, due to TT club not welcoming to new comers (as they expect since adult at my age should already be at least intermediate or minimum their level) - I quit the game ~ again. I also had bad experience with coach, as I had a fextra7 but was told clipper was better, sanwei was easy to splinter or chip off feeeling is dead, advised me to get another blade. I got the fextra..then coach still advised to get clipper any version.

from last year..I really did quit due to TT club experience, coach, club players and equipment not match (or maybe it did not match as I was not having fun with it)

If you are from the Phillipines, then most players there are using very fast blades (similar to many players from South East Asian countries). So no wonder your coach advised you to get a Clipper. However, now, in the era of 40+ plastic ball, Clipper is still acceptable, as it is not bouncy in short game but it yields good power when you hit hard. So if you use Chinese rubbers (no booster) or non-tensor rubbers, you can still control it well.

So here is my 2 cents: It is OK to get a Clipper. Choose Clipper Wood (no CR, no WRB, no CC, just plain Clipper). And if you can, get a lighter Clipper (<90 grams). It is possible to get one (but you must be patient), as I got 84 grams Clipper Wood and 84 grams Clipper CR. If it's not possible, then 90 grams Clipper is still acceptable (I have one as well). Actually, my heaviest Clipper Wood is 93 grams, but it is still controllable. <EDIT: Actually, heavier Clipper is better in the long run, however, for the sake of better control, choose the lower weight one>.

The good news is that Clipper Wood is a blade that you can use your whole life. Just change the rubbers when you progress.

And if you check a video review by @Dan (Tabletennisdaily), you can see that they mentioned that it is more of a control blade ( probably because they are more accustomed to fast carbon blades). Here is the link:

Finally, don't give up.... try to find different coach or different venue. I know that it is frustrating at the beginning. But if you persevere, you will improve sooner or later.


EDIT: Oh, if you watch the video, you will see that there is a 40th Anniversary Clipper Wood (expensive). DON'T BUY that. BUY the ordinary Stiga Clipper Wood (much cheaper). They are basically the same (at least for us, mere mortal).

 

[UpHill_Battle]

That's sad but let me play devil's advocate here: do they expect adults to be good already, or do they expect adults to be proactive and asking for guidance where they need it?
I'm really not trying to be a d*ck here, but I see this environment here too, where people will just leave you alone until you ask for something. And 9/10 times it's because they expect that if you need something, you're old enough to just ask.

I think maybe you hit a bad coach, or a bad club culture. Or the coach got annoyed about equipment questions because they aren't relevant at this point. And it's made you incredibly insecure about the equipment you're starting with, but you don'y need to be insecure. What you need is not the perfect rubber or blade, what you need is 6-12 months of practice using anything half decent. It doesn't matter what that is.

You're talking about getting tired on loopkills - but if you're a beginner you honestly don't really have any business doing repetitive loopkills anyway. If you're playing a tournament on that level, there will not be a single point on the entire day where you need the skill to play more than one loopkill in a row. I am not a beginner, and I hardly ever encounter the situation where I need to play two high-powered loops in a row.

The important skills as a beginner and intermediate player, and I dare say even for advanced players, are:
- applying spin to a ball
- reading spin on the ball
- placing that ball where you want it to go
- having your body and feet in the right place to do these things

and that's it.

Smashes are extra
Loopkills are extra
Trickery is extra
Using fast equipment is extra
Even difficult serves are extra.

You can achieve all those things with something cheap like PF4 on that Fextra. But what if you do follow the coach's advice and got a Clipper with the rubbers he thinks would currently fit you well?
One, Clipper is a great blade. If anything, you end up with a good blade that can last you a long time.
Two, it shows the coach you're willing to listen to his teachings. Some coaches need that kind of gesture to see you're committed.
Three, coach has *actually* seen you play where we haven't. He might have a very good point in his suggestions.

Talk to the guy, like really talk. You're both adults, you can explain the situation, even explain that you feel a bit lost but you still would love to learn the game. It's not the end of the world.

side note: forgot to mention I sold my clipper last year. I really have no equipment yet.

In the TT club I went to most are adults. I do approach ans some ask me to play, which for me is good. But once they know or see me play, they either literally just lob everything (maybe saving energy for an actual better opponent) or they treat you like their level (which most are really good!).

For equipment, I really havent bought any, as I am still doubting on what would be ok to start and everything. I dont care if allwood or slow carbon. I do know a guy from one f the TT club that is willing to sell cheap the questioned rubber battle 2 silver and jupiter 3 asia ~ and willing to give me a used blade.

I did take some training sessions, several sessions 18+ sessions to my reckon. Part of those where opening loop, fast loop/loop kills. Most of the coaches comment was bad ball-read on serve receive, footwork and passive shots - this is the same coach that told me get a clipper.

I can talk to the my previous coach. It is just intimidating that people near my age are skills way above, as they have been playing for years. And other younger, are also way above. No such thing in TT clubs right now that are actually mid-beginner. Soon as I decide to which equipment, I will start again. or maybe change TT club. lol.

 

[UpHill_Battle]

Hi. After a while, I decide (due to budget constraints) I got an all yinhe setup..

blade: yinhe pd 437s
fh: jupiter 3 asia (38deg)
bh: moon speed (medium-soft)

I was torn as the seller was offering a sanwei 75 inner, and said it can be used for beginner with basic strokes just have to adjust my rubber. they recommended for fh a moospeed (medium-hard) instead of jupiter 3 asia. But got the above instead.

I will be looking for a different club location that would still be near my work. And get some coaching and environment for an older fella like myself who is restarting.

 

[Der_Echte]

I just checked the conversion, my actual budget for blade is $110 for an all-wood or inner carbon or whatever will be suggested.

Do you have any suggestion for rubbers as well?
Will it be possible for someone pushing 40 be able to play table tennis still? And will likely play not everyday but will get coaching of course - 1set or so depends on progress and cost.

I started TT in my 40s and now am pushing 60 and coach both kids and adults.

Of course you can do TT and get better.

Do not over-worry about exact blade, get middle of the road... the Persson Power Play suggestion is middle of road, my preferred rubbers, Tibhar Aurus are also middle of road.

You can play beginner to expert with such a setup.

Get something middle of road and stick to it.

My setup costs 90 USD if I make a 300 euro order at tabletennis11.com

No one has to over think equipment to an extreme.

 

[Der_Echte]

Hi. After a while, I decide (due to budget constraints) I got an all yinhe setup..

blade: yinhe pd 437s
fh: jupiter 3 asia (38deg)
bh: moon speed (medium-soft)

I was torn as the seller was offering a sanwei 75 inner, and said it can be used for beginner with basic strokes just have to adjust my rubber. they recommended for fh a moospeed (medium-hard) instead of jupiter 3 asia. But got the above instead.

I will be looking for a different club location that would still be near my work. And get some coaching and environment for an older fella like myself who is restarting.

You will not die a horrible death with the setup I see you chose.

Spend time learning how to to the basics of the sport well and see the ball to strike zone... and see the ball... and get to the spot to hit. Those are skills number 1 and 2 that will Trump all equipment decisions.

 

[UpHill_Battle]

I am just a hobby player, play only 2x-4x a month. I've been playing for 3yrs (after a long hiatus) with several sets of coaching sessions - coaching session separate from the 2-4x a month of play I am a subtle EJ changed blade in the past 3yrs with chinese rubbers.

I had some issue/injury on my (right) knees and (right) shoulders which hindered more my lateral movements, and body movement in turning/twisting when hitting/brushing the ball. Body swing movement is slower, heavier - strains my right side of body. hence I wanted to try esjn/jpn more, hoping it'll be easier to use and lighter.

Would esn/jpn rubber help a little on this concern??

I do want to keep playing despite the body ailments. So changing some aspect of equipment might help...right??

 

[UpHill_Battle]

I am just a hobby player, play only 2x-4x a month. I've been playing for 3yrs (after a long hiatus) with several sets of coaching sessions - coaching session separate from the 2-4x a month of play I am a subtle EJ changed blade in the past 3yrs with chinese rubbers.

I had some issue/injury on my (right) knees and (right) shoulders which hindered more my lateral movements, and body movement in turning/twisting when hitting/brushing the ball. Body swing movement is slower, heavier - strains my right side of body. hence I wanted to try esjn/jpn more, hoping it'll be easier to use and lighter.

Would esn/jpn rubber help a little on this concern??

I do want to keep playing despite the body ailments. So changing some aspect of equipment might help...right??

would esn/jpn rubbers help with setup weight concern and body movement hindrance ?

 

[Tyce]

would esn/jpn rubbers help with setup weight concern and body movement hindrance ?

It's hard to judge through text, so here's an option: get cheap non-tacky rubbers like Palio AK47 and try out if it works for you!

I would say it's 50/50. If your problem is centered around acceleration through the ball, and not necessarily around the entire power chain, then you will probably still have the same issues because acceleration is needed in both styles. Softer rubbers in general would require less acceleration to activate, but would also give you less quality in return.
If your problem is only when using high power, having a catapulting rubber might be able to relieve your issues effectively.

 

[andymagata]

Go short pips on forehand and don’t look back.
I am 51 and after a very long search I tried the short pips and it clicked, was the feeling I looked for and while it is not as versatile as inverted the simplification is a good thing. No need to twist and turn your body if you don’t want to, just block the ball path and drive straight through any spin. It is light as well. My racket now weighs in on 166 grams with the Moon 12 rubber on backhand.

 

[Tyce]

No thanks, I like my spin

 

[UpHill_Battle]

update:
I am still using sanwei paramid but with rakza7 max FH and vega korea on BH. Yes 2 rubber change at the same time - I just wanted how it felt on both side already.
It is easier to get the ball on the other side, less effort and still quick enough on placements. What I dont like both sides are a tad bouncy for me that cannot impart more spin on shots. It can be my body movement twisting hindrance or ball just not dwell much - like I need to totally brush to impart more spin. I also feel my touch/soft touch as affected, or maybe I need more time using these rubbers.

we'll see. once ok with bouncy rubbers. may be go back to chinese FH but on an inner carbon blade.