Butterfly Zhang Jike ALC or Stiga Carbonado 145

[TareqPhoto]

I see you keep recommending or mentioning that Innerforce, is this series of Butterfly really good? what is/are main characteristics of this series, speed or control or design or....?

 

[dannyreventon]

I see you keep recommending or mentioning that Innerforce, is this series of Butterfly really good? what is/are main characteristics of this series, speed or control or design or....?

For the Innerforce series, compared to other ALC/ZLF/ZLC/t5000/AL series of Butterfly, the placement of the ALC/ZLF/ZLC/t5000/AL is right after the core, compared to the usual placement, near the top ply. Also, the top ply for the innerforce series is limba, which is softer than Koto, therefore providing more dwell and, to a certain extent, control over koto.

 

[TareqPhoto]

For the Innerforce series, compared to other ALC/ZLF/ZLC/t5000/AL series of Butterfly, the placement of the ALC/ZLF/ZLC/t5000/AL is right after the core, compared to the usual placement, near the top ply. Also, the top ply for the innerforce series is limba, which is softer than Koto, therefore providing more dwell and, to a certain extent, control over koto.

Cool, thanks!!!

 

[Giangt]

Hi there Giangt, thank you.

I have read your review several times up till now. What I want to know is how the Carbonado 145 plays with the new poly ball and whether I can play the Rasant Powergrip on FH. Also you stress that the 145 is a tad slower than the Viscaria, is it really noticeable or is it just a tiny bit? My playing style is based on power with spin rather than just the spin. Thanks in advance.

I'm glad that you read my review and hopefully you got an impression of what the blade is about. How the blade performs with the poly ball is a matter of the setup. IMO the game with the poly ball is more oriented on speed rather than spin. You say that you miss a lot of balls with your current setup and your game is more speed than spin oriented, which means you will miss more with the poly ball. This leads to your posts which I have quoted underneath.

Maybe, yeah, I just thought that after a year of playing with it, I would be able to control it, but sometimes, I really can't. I will play with it for another couple of months and will then decide whether or not I will make the change to the Carbonado.

Here IMO the Carbonado 145 is way more controlable than the Viscaria FL.

That is good to hear, for now I just think that my technique isn't suited for the Viscaria, read: not good enough. Therefore, I am looking for a blade with a more forgiving nature.

Here IMO the Carbonado 145 is more forgiven because it is slower and has more dwell which in nature will be able the "hold" the ball more.

Okay. I have not tried the Carbonato. So I don't know more than the fact that it has carbon and weighs 93 or so grams. I guess I should read your review. How would you compare the speed, dwell time, control and feeling between the Carbonato 145 and the TB ZLF?


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Yeah I would appreciate if you if read my review

A comparison of the Carbonado 145 and TB ZLF in terms of dwell, control and feeling I would say the 145 has the same or is even better than the TB ZLF. In terms of speed I would say the 145 is faster. I has been long time ago since I have played with the TB ZLF, so do hold me up on it.

 

[lawrence.monsieurr]

I'm glad that you read my review and hopefully you got an impression of what the blade is about. How the blade performs with the poly ball is a matter of the setup. IMO the game with the poly ball is more oriented on speed rather than spin. You say that you miss a lot of balls with your current setup and your game is more speed than spin oriented, which means you will miss more with the poly ball. This leads to your posts which I have quoted underneath.





Here IMO the Carbonado 145 is way more controlable than the Viscaria FL.



Here IMO the Carbonado 145 is more forgiven because it is slower and has more dwell which in nature will be able the "hold" the ball more.


Yeah I would appreciate if you if read my review A comparison of the Carbonado 145 and TB ZLF in terms of dwell, control and feeling I would say the 145 has the same or is even better than the TB ZLF. In terms of speed I would say the 145 is faster. I has been long time ago since I have played with the TB ZLF, so do hold me up on it.

Thank you Giangt, now I will be looking forward to test the Carbonado 145 in the near future. Thanks again for your recommendation. I will keep you up to date with how the Carbonado performs, as I will write a review too about it. Cheers!

 

[Killerspintt]

Forget the idea to get more controle AND more speed than the viscaria, it doesn't exists and if it was the case, Viscaria wouldn't be payed this much at all levels including pro-level.

I think that the most important part you seek is : MORE CONTROL. Plenty of blades have more control (and less speed) than viscaria, but if you want to keep koto-outer feel, 5+2 construction, simply go for either a significantly lighter viscaria, which will be less powerfull, more controlable, either go for an other composite than ALC -> Timo Boll ZLF as suggested above.

Concerning the ZJK alc, i do not own him but i got two Zhang Jike (blue dragon), both are faster than my viscaria despite being 2g lighter (and having the same construction), faster, more powerfull but less control of course. Anyway its not like it could be general to all the production, if you order a ZJK alc, the blade could be faster than you viscaria but it could also be slower....you have no guarantee at this level unless you order a significantly lighter or heavier blade than your current Viscaria.

 

[slevin]

This is what I think: if you want more control you should go with a Butterfly Timo Boll ZLF or an Innerforce ZLF.

Some might characterize the IF-ZLF to have better control than the ALC as it does have limba outer (rather than koto) that helps in keeping balls on the table during the 1st 3 balls of the point.

However, I've played with the TB-ZLF in the past for over a year after which I moved on to the TB-ALC. I know both blades really well and would not agree that the TB-ZLF has better control than the ALC.

To me, flexier the blade is, the worse control it has but the easier it is to generate spin with. The stiffer the blade, the better control it has but it is more difficult to generate spin (though one can generate more spin with a stiffer blade as one can use higher racket speed with less of a risk of large penalty due to mistiming).

I currently use the Barwell Fleet that has a better lower gear than the TB-ALC / Viscaria (ie: it is slower on the slow strokes) but is more powerful (ball goes faster on the hard strokes). It also generates more spin & a much better feel.

Most reviewers have commented that it has better control than the TB-ALC / Viscaria but that depends on your ability to commandeer a blade with this wide a gear range (not a trivial thing).

If by control, you mean that the blade helps in sending the ball exactly where you aim to send it, then the MJ-SZLC and the ZJK-SZLC have some of the highest control levels possible.

However, if by control, you mean forgivability (ie: what happens when your blade angle is slightly off or if you're slightly early or late to the ball), then those two blades have poor control.

 

[NextLevel]

If you have a good loop, all this stuff is trivia at the margins and more about personal taste than objective considerations.

 

[mcaibyz2]

"control" comes not just from the blade, but more importantly, from YOU. I understand you are a keen, developing, attacking player. I guess you put many hours training your FH/BH top spin strokes. But the ability to control mainly comes from the training of pushing, blocking. From my personal experience, I found my setup very fast and uncontrolable in the begining. But after practicing blocking heavy top spin from my training partner, I found I can control better and better. You have a very nice setup already, give it more time and more training.

 

[mytabletennis]

You could use Butterfly Amultart ZL Carbon Blade.

 

[lawrence.monsieurr]

"control" comes not just from the blade, but more importantly, from YOU. I understand you are a keen, developing, attacking player. I guess you put many hours training your FH/BH top spin strokes. But the ability to control mainly comes from the training of pushing, blocking. From my personal experience, I found my setup very fast and uncontrolable in the begining. But after practicing blocking heavy top spin from my training partner, I found I can control better and better. You have a very nice setup already, give it more time and more training.

Thanks for the heads-up . I changed my rubbers to 2 Tenergy 05's Max, and I have to say after much training, this setup suits me much better. I can play with confidence now, and can rely on the rubber itself. Previously, with the Rasant series, there were some problems. Somehow, the Rasant series don't perform that well on a Viscaria blade. Anyway, now I am very happy and relieved.