Can Spin Trainers Help?

[AdamTT]

I just saw a tutorial on YouTube that featured a Spin Trainer, mainly for demonstration purposes. A TT ball on a spindle attached to some form of bendy pole allowing you to practice brushing the ball in different ways. https://tinyurl.com/yfh3536m

Has anyone got experience using one of these and do you find it helped? Whilst I know that this is no substitute for actually hitting/practicing, I think it may be useful for me to practice some fundamentals as I'm currently focussing on improving looping heavy backspin on my forehand (too many of my shots go in the net)

 

[IB66]

These are good for learning or showing a new player how to brush the ball properly.
When I use them, we play a game and see who can make the ball spin for the longest time!!
It also shows the axis of spin, you can then point out the fastest moving point on the ball, and the slowest (at the axis) the spin is easier to control or has less impact at the axis.

 

[Jan_]

No, it's for demonstration purposes and 5 year olds to teach them about contacting the ball and the concept of spin.

Spinning at it will not show you the results on the table such as trajectory from the spin. You may use the technique you use on this thing on the actual table and find that the ball now goes higher or lower. It also doesn't matter if you hit hard, the ball will never go long or short. It doesn't give you valuable information.

 

[IB66]

No, it's for demonstration purposes and 5 year olds to teach them about contacting the ball and the concept of spin.

Spinning at it will not show you the results on the table such as trajectory from the spin. You may use the technique you use on this thing on the actual table and find that the ball now goes higher or lower. It also doesn't matter if you hit hard, the ball will never go long or short. It doesn't give you valuable information.

Its basic and for beginners it DOES give valuable info on how a brushing contact can be made. Agreed that it doesn't show ball flight etc. BUT you can show how to brush over the upper part of the ball, back of the ball (against back spin) etc.

 

[cytivrat]

I own two of those and they help me. It is not about learning how to spin or making it better, it is just some sort of fitness for me. Since I cannot play every day, and 3 times/week is not enough for me, I'm trying to add some shadow practice from time to time. And since simple shadow practice is not fun at all, I'm placing two of those trainers on a kitchen table and combining FH and BH loops with different movements, placing those trainers in different positions allows to train different scenario. Not ideal, but difinitely more fun than when I tried the same thing without them.

 

[turbozed]

It might be a better investment just to buy a bunch of training balls. 50 or 100. You can practice without a table in a few ways.

You can practice serves onto your bed for example. Another thing you can do is sit cross legged on the floor, drop a ball in front of you, and then topspin it up into a target 10 feet away (like a basket or something). You can also drop a ball onto your dinner table and practice aggressive pushes.

The difference is that you'll be able to train hitting a real ball and getting accurate feedback with the feeling on the racket as well as getting to observe how the ball flies.

I hit a ball spinner thousands of times and got a decent workout out of it. But for better ball control, I think I would've been better off doing those exercises above.

 

[NextLevel]

I own two of those and they help me. It is not about learning how to spin or making it better, it is just some sort of fitness for me. Since I cannot play every day, and 3 times/week is not enough for me, I'm trying to add some shadow practice from time to time. And since simple shadow practice is not fun at all, I'm placing two of those trainers on a kitchen table and combining FH and BH loops with different movements, placing those trainers in different positions allows to train different scenario. Not ideal, but difinitely more fun than when I tried the same thing without them.

I built one for a kid way back and he still credits it (who really knows) for the tremendous amount of spin he ended up generating on his backhand over time. They are really good for mastering spin generation because they give real feedback on your contact and stroke trajectory.

 

[Jan_]

Its basic and for beginners it DOES give valuable info on how a brushing contact can be made. Agreed that it doesn't show ball flight etc. BUT you can show how to brush over the upper part of the ball, back of the ball (against back spin) etc.

Only brushing is bad, that's why they use it a time or two and then play. It cannot improve you, only give you an idea of how spin reacts with rubbers

 

[brokenball]

I don't like gimmicks.

I tell people to hit balls with a robot. They should notice the sound of impact. Then they should try brushing a little more. If done correctly, the sound of impact will not be as sharp since less of the energy is going into the wood and more is stretching the top sheet across the face of the paddle. Brush more and the sound of impact will be muffled even more. Then move back from the table a half step and don't hit the ball until it falls to somewhere between table and net height. Now this is a real loop. A showoff can hit the ball from below table height, but you need to get low to start the swing from below the ball.

The problem with brushing the ball is that timing become more important since the effective contact area of the blade is smaller. Timing is extremely important.

 

[blahness]

Just buy some balls and practice your topspin brushing in a room, towards the curtains or bed or whatever (i like curtains because you can catch the ball easily after it bounces back towards you. Looping underspin into the net may not necessarily be a brushing issue. Imo too many ppl try the thin brush heavy underspin and it always ends up in the net. As long as you hit the ball solidly from below the ball, you should be able to lift even the heaviest underspin. After that it's just finger action + pronation + forearm snap to generate the spin.

 

[NextLevel]

Only brushing is bad, that's why they use it a time or two and then play. It cannot improve you, only give you an idea of how spin reacts with rubbers

Have you worked with spin trainers before? They don't work the way you think they do.

 

[brokenball]

Looping underspin into the net may not necessarily be a brushing issue. Imo too many ppl try the thin brush heavy underspin and it always ends up in the net.

That is because the upwards or tangential motion speed of the paddle doesn't match or exceed the rotational surface speed of the ball.

As long as you hit the ball solidly from below the ball, you should be able to lift even the heaviest underspin.

Yes, that is safe, but it doesn't generate or increase the rotation of the ball. It slows the rotation of the ball down so you reduce the top spin of your loop. You should have enough upwards motion in your swing so the paddle's tangential speed matches or exceeds the ball's rotational surface speed. If you are good you can hit the ball at the 2:30 or 2 o'clock point and the tangential friction is drag the ball over the aggressively. You will be increasing the rotation rate and the magnus effect.

 

[Dr Evil]

I think these things are great for beginners. When I was first learning to loop my coach gave me one to practice with for a few days and it jump started my progress. I've recommended this many times over the years and it usually gets an enthusiastic thumbs up.

 

[NextLevel]

I think these things are great for beginners. When I was first learning to loop my coach gave me one to practice with for a few days and it jump started my progress. I've recommended this many times over the years and it usually gets an enthusiastic thumbs up.

They can be great for more than beginners, but they may not add that much to your playing level beyond a certain point. The truth is that some of us have technical issues generating spin that can be examined and fixed using such machines. You can get good spin with power loops but many people swing through paths that don't really spin the ball adequately. These machines can let you get a feel for that. Even when you are not a full fledge beginner. Technical inadequacy is enough and can be detected using these trainers. That's why I ask whether the people who are speaking down on them have used them, it is one thing to have used them and considered them inadequate, but another to theorize about them. I have used to them figure our what swings generate good spin on my forehand side. Unsurprising my backhand had a natural spin but my forehand was initially flatter than I thought it was. Now they are closer to the same level and approach in spin generation.

 

[igorponger]

Yes, the thing was exclusively developed to help teaching how the banana flick works. Nothing else.

 

[Jan_]

Have you worked with spin trainers before? They don't work the way you think they do.

I have, they don't give the weight and grip feeling a normal ball give. It's a gimmick, noone needs it.

 

[AdamTT]

Just buy some balls and practice your topspin brushing in a room, towards the curtains or bed or whatever (i like curtains because you can catch the ball easily after it bounces back towards you. Looping underspin into the net may not necessarily be a brushing issue. Imo too many ppl try the thin brush heavy underspin and it always ends up in the net. As long as you hit the ball solidly from below the ball, you should be able to lift even the heaviest underspin. After that it's just finger action + pronation + forearm snap to generate the spin.

Thanks, that's a really nice way to visualise it. I'm on a really steep learning curve at the moment, I used to play TT as a kid but stopped when I was about 18, never played in a league until I joined a club last year. Had an ok 1st season in our area's 1st division and this year finished 3rd overall in the league and am now beating players in our local premier division (admittedly the ones near the bottom of the prem league). As I'm getting more exposure to much stronger players it is their backspin I can struggle with, I can chip/push them back all day long but I'm forcing myself to be a more attacking player. What you said about hitting more under the ball makes a lot of sense, i've definitely been trying to hit the back and brush it upwards, and I need to focus more on bat acceleration to counter heavy underspin.