carbon blade with spin ability

[IB66]

As I wrote before, serving spin is normal, and anything at low to medium impact is, too. Same rubbers.

Hi,
I’m not as high a level player as you, I own a couple of Viscaria’s and I have tested T05 T19 etc on the Viscaria’s. My lack of technique means I don’t get full spin potential out of those rubbers on a Viscaria ( and likely other rubbers as well ) especially at higher impact.

Recently I’ve been taking coaching lessons regularly. Using an all wood blade, rubbers used Donic Bluestorm Z2 and Z3, I can produce high / v high spin with a good brush v backspin on both wings.
Whilst practicing BH topspin I was producing what I ‘thought’ good spin, BUT there was more available, on 2 or 3 shots the coach commented ‘really fast kick forward’ and the impact FELT different. So I have a ‘FEEL’ to concentrate on, to get the additional spin. This ‘FEEL’ was not the ‘NORMAL’ feel I usually get. The basic technique is the same, but the grip pressure, wrist snap through, timing of these at impact was more precise. The stuff Der is talking about.

I’m not saying that your technique is poor, far from it, BUT the equipment only does what you ask of it, Perhaps the Harimoto set up needs to be ‘asked’ in a slightly different way???
Just like my BH topspin stroke!!!

 

[lodro]

Hi,
I’m not as high a level player as you, I own a couple of Viscaria’s and I have tested T05 T19 etc on the Viscaria’s. My lack of technique means I don’t get full spin potential out of those rubbers on a Viscaria ( and likely other rubbers as well ) especially at higher impact.

Recently I’ve been taking coaching lessons regularly. Using an all wood blade, rubbers used Donic Bluestorm Z2 and Z3, I can produce high / v high spin with a good brush v backspin on both wings.
Whilst practicing BH topspin I was producing what I ‘thought’ good spin, BUT there was more available, on 2 or 3 shots the coach commented ‘really fast kick forward’ and the impact FELT different. So I have a ‘FEEL’ to concentrate on, to get the additional spin. This ‘FEEL’ was not the ‘NORMAL’ feel I usually get. The basic technique is the same, but the grip pressure, wrist snap through, timing of these at impact was more precise. The stuff Der is talking about.

I’m not saying that your technique is poor, far from it, BUT the equipment only does what you ask of it, Perhaps the Harimoto set up needs to be ‘asked’ in a slightly different way???
Just like my BH topspin stroke!!!

I agree 100% !!!!!
When this thread was first posted I saw it when nobody had yet answered and as a "knee-jerk-reaction" i started writing but
then decided not to bother.
I have a tendency to be humorously-rude 😁

I was going to suggest that ANY blade, carbon or not, composite or plain wood could be used to produce good spin
and that it was really a matter of technique , not a matter of the material.

I am glad i had stopped myself from posting 😁

 

[dajdosta]

Why do different types of blade exist then and why even pros use different equipment if it's all about the technique?
What I learned from this thread is that spin can be achieved with anything so I'm selling my blade and buying the cheapest one for 10 EUR.

 

[NDH]

Why do different types of blade exist then and why even pros use different equipment if it's all about the technique?
What I learned from this thread is that spin can be achieved with anything so I'm selling my blade and buying the cheapest one for 10 EUR.

Probably the right call for most people on this forum!

Spin can be achieved with anything, and technique is the most important thing (equipment obviously plays a part, although rubbers matter more than the blade).

A 2000 rated player who is struggling for spin with the Harimoto ALC, likely has a technique issue.

OR, rubbers with better spin potential would be better and more appropriate than changing the blade.

Dignics 05 for example, requires quite a fast stroke to achieve good spin. A fast stroke is usually associated with a good player.

Tenergy 05 can produce loads of spin with slower strokes, so lesser players can achieve a lot of spin, even if their technique isn’t great.

I know the majority of this forum is here to discuss equipment, and hate it when things like technique, ability and common sense are discussed……. But it doesn’t make it any less true I’m afraid.

 

[dajdosta]

Thx on your response.
Then why do different types of blades exist and why even professional players use different blades?

 

[NDH]

Thx on your response.
Then why do different types of blades exist and why even professional players use different blades?

Oh, there will be differences between them, although they will be small differences, and the vast majority of people outside of the professionals will not likely be able to tell much difference.

Then there’s the marketing element.

Why does Butterfly make many, many blades that are all very similar (or the same, but with a different design!)?

1 word. $$$$$$$$$$$

The point I’m trying to make is in response to the original question about the Harimoto ALC not being able to produce the required spin, and looking for a blade that offers “more spin”.

Yes, weight will have an impact on this, but you still need to be a very high level before this stuff starts to make a difference.

People interested in equipment will get caught up on the “stats” of a blade, the materials, wood layers and “manufacturer” stats…….

Personally, my opinion is that all of this stuff is very secondary to ability, practice and coaching - Yet people use it as an excuse to buy a new blade.

 

[IB66]

Equipment - blades, rubbers etc fall into ‘ball park’ categories, to a certain extent, many are very similar to each other.

I have just got another blade!!!

It has carbon layers, but has been made for spin rather than speed, the carbon is there to increase the sweet spot. The frequency is about 970Hz it’s in the defensive ‘ball park’ category. The blade doesn’t have ‘spin’ but to a certain extent the choice of veneers and composition can help you get a little more spin
I’ve used it twice now, Rakza Z EH max on FH, Rakza Z max on BH, MY ability to control the ball was improved somewhat, this is assisted by a relatively slow blade. The blade doesn’t have more control but it’s easier to use, I still make mistakes, which is generally down to poor technique, movement, shot choice etc but the ‘spread’ of mistakes is less. By this I mean that there is slightly more margin for error.
If I put the Rakza’s on a Viscaria then the margin for error would be greater, probably on 2 fronts,
1) because it’s a faster blade the ball travels further
and
2) If my spin to speed ratio is less, which is likely, the ball is less likely to be dragged down onto the table and again will fly longer.

 

[vvk1]

...
I have just got another blade!!!
...
MY ability to control the ball was improved somewhat, this is assisted by a relatively slow blade. The blade doesn’t have more control but it’s easier to use, I still make mistakes, which is generally down to poor technique, movement, shot choice etc but the ‘spread’ of mistakes is less. By this I mean that there is slightly more margin for error.
...

OMG, the verbal contortions some people resort to just to avoid admitting that slower equipment means more control ... Look at the above - each sentence contradicts the previous. "Got more control because the new blade is slower. But blade does not have more control. But it is easier to use and I make fewer mistakes and the blade is more forgiving."

Facepalm.

 

[IB66]

OMG, the verbal contortions some people resort to just to avoid admitting that slower equipment means more control ... Look at the above - each sentence contradicts the previous. "Got more control because the new blade is slower. But blade does not have more control. But it is easier to use and I make fewer mistakes and the blade is more forgiving."

Facepalm.

Yeah, that’s what I said, slower equipment is more controllable. In a round about way!!
Apologies if the way I wrote it wasn’t good enough.
when I said ‘But the blade doesn’t have more control’ was poor, I should have said that ‘ I AM better able to control my shots due to the blades characteristics’ But inanimate objects don’t have ‘control’ it’s the player that controls the equipment, and that was what I was getting at with the poorly worded sentence(s)

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

OMG, the verbal contortions some people resort to just to avoid admitting that slower equipment means more control ... Look at the above - each sentence contradicts the previous. "Got more control because the new blade is slower. But blade does not have more control. But it is easier to use and I make fewer mistakes and the blade is more forgiving."

Facepalm.

Yeah, that’s what I said, slower equipment is more controllable. In a round about way!!
Apologies if the way I wrote it wasn’t good enough.
when I said ‘But the blade doesn’t have more control’ was poor, I should have said that ‘ I AM better able to control my shots due to the blades characteristics’ But inanimate objects don’t have ‘control’ it’s the player that controls the equipment, and that was what I was getting at with the poorly worded sentence(s)

The writing was made with the thought, that certain people present, THAT EQUIPMENT DOES NOT HAVE CONTROL. If you have heard anyone on this forum go on tangents about how equipment does not have control, then you should understand that IB66 was trying to say something that would not cause an engineer who gets irate over semantics, to get irate. I applaud IB66's ability to do that.

 

[Lazer]

It's funny by that token You cant give a blade any character at all not speed not spin and not control, funny old BB. 😄

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Knuckle Ball]

We may have the same problem. I have also the same experience with Viscaria which almost everyone says is one of the best blade available. I know my technique needs a lot of improvement and yet I have always looked for a better spin generating blade, suiting my skill set.

I found this in the Joola Rosskopf Emotion or JRE (not the PBO-c new one, I also have that one). Try borrowing from someone in your club if they have one. I believe this may be the answer to your question. I recommend this blade highly

 

[Lazer]

The slower Your "racket" (not blade) is the more spin You can generate. So both control and spin is inverse of speed.
For spin the rubber is waaay more important than the blade.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Manto76]

Oh, there will be differences between them, although they will be small differences, and the vast majority of people outside of the professionals will not likely be able to tell much difference.

I think I disagree with you on this, but I agree on the main point you seem to be making.

To be more specific, it seems to me that most players (even absolute beginners, some of which I coach) can feel differences between similar materials. For example, two players I work with recently tried each others' bats (same FH rubber but different blades: Xiom Offensive S vs. Andro Timber 5 Off) and they could feel the differences. That aligns with my own experience, which is that I can feel differences between different blades and rubbers of the same type/class.

However, I do agree with you that these slight differences make no difference to a player's performance ability. Someone's skill-level is what it is and whether they play with one setup or another will make very little difference. It's just a case of finding a setup that 'feels' nice to you and then sticking with it.

 

[Zeen]

Long story short, I got rid of the harimoto and traded it for a dynasty carbon.
Funnily, I found out that a pretty good player in my club (over 400 points better than me) tried the harimoto a year ago and did not make the switch from his korbel, because surprise... it lacked the spin for his game. Well, glad it seems I'm not the only crazy one.
For the back season I'll just use the heavier newer faster powerplay.
No more foolish testing around until the summer break as well.

 

[Michael Zhuang]

Dynasty Carbon sounds like a very good blade. But it also seems a fair bit stiffer than the Harimoto, so I don't really understand the physical dynamics that would allow the DC to be spinnier than the Harimoto?

Can anybody clarify?

 

[NDH]

Dynasty Carbon sounds like a very good blade. But it also seems a fair bit stiffer than the Harimoto, so I don't really understand the physical dynamics that would allow the DC to be spinnier than the Harimoto?

Can anybody clarify?

I really wouldn’t read too much into it.

The weight of the blade will play a part, but if you have the same weighted blade, the same rubbers (same age rubbers as well) and the same, consistent stroke….. You’d never be able to tell any difference.

 

[Lazer]

The feel may be slightly different so that you think the spin is different, but in reality not much…
For me the feel is important if it feels good I get more confident…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I use an OSP Virtuoso Plus and a blade that was made by Nate that is remarkably similar to the V+. I love the feel of all wood. I have been told by higher level players that I get a lot of spin. I have been told by players a little higher level than me that I get a lot of spin but that my shots are not super fast. I suspect that is more about technique than equipment. But, I can get why some people might like an all wood blade for the feel. And I can get why some people might feel they need a composite blade for the extra speed.

I will take the good feeling of my blades. But everyone has a right to choose what they like.

And I would think it would be hard to compare the spin of Korbel to the spin of a composite blade and come up with the idea that the composite blade gets more spin.

 

[Zeen]

Michael, I don't think one blade is particularly stiffer than the other. I tried the DC with some rasanter before and it was about as spinny as a Innerforce ALC with d09c.it's also slower than Harimoto and has koto, which I prefer.