China Smash 2024, Beijing, 9/26-10/6

[rpb23]

LSD again at the table for men's double. He only was given half hour rest after his last match. Tough schedule even for a 19 years old.

 

[rpb23]

LSD's double partner LGY was erratic who single-handedly gave out the first game.

 

[turbozed]

LSD happens to win more, and of course more ppl complain when they lose vs when they win. Someone who wins or is expected to win against Anders Lind is not gonna complain too much about his serves. It's like complaining to the old grandpa whom you beat 11-3, that his no toss serves are illegal...kinda a bad look so most ppl ignore it rightly or wrongly.

Basing it on 'how many ppl complain' as a barometer for illegality is pretty wrong imo.

The free arm was the original method of hiding the serve, and imo hiding is hiding, regardless of whether it is shoulder (LSD) or free arm (Anders Lind) or head (WCQ style).

You neglected to address the point where LSD and WCQ are pulling out the most blatantly illegal stuff at crucial moments. Find me the times when Lind does this and you can equate the two.

Yes, they do win more than Lind does. I'm not sure how this relates to the topic. Are you saying that Timo Boll complained about LSD and nobody else is that it wasn't blatant cheating but that he got upset that LSD waas too skilled? Connect the dots for me.

It seems like you're really dug into defending Lind and LSD serves as the same. Yes, I understand the free arm can hide the ball. That was never in question. But if you want to actually engage in fruitful conversation, it would be helpful if you could address the points I keep bringing up instead of going on tangents.

 

[zeio]

Hirano hasn't had a breakthrough singles performance in awhile, often stopping at R16 or quarterfinals at best in both international and domestic competitions. At some point you just have to accept that this is her level. Yes she has the potential to create occasional upsets, but that's what they are, upsets.

As dissected before, Hirano turned her focus to the selection trials and beating top 3 CNT players starting 2023. And as blogger Kappa has pointed out recently after a review of playing schedules for Hayata, Ito and Hirano in 2022 and 2023, the higher your WR the easier time you have in the WTT event structure with the PDR, NER and extremely low seeding positions and how it has become a "draw game", AKA luck.

To see whether they are true to ranking, you have to count how many times each of them has reached her seeding/starting position. You'll be surprised. Reproducing a previous post below.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/wtt-singapore-smash-2024-3-7-3-17.33147/post-447071

The race obviously. But other handled the race and kept their rankings. It is her responsibility.

Please. Go look up their world ranking at the start and end of the race. This is wasting my time. If anything, it's Ito who has not been keeping up.

The selection race officially started after Zennihon Takkyu 2022, 1/24-30 and ended after Zennihon Takkyu 2024, 1/22-28
Initial points from 2020 were reduced to 20% from 1/2022 onward, and 0% from 5/2022 onward
ITTF TTWR 2022/2/1, 2022/5/3, 2024/1/30
Ito 3 (4 events), 6 (5), 10 (10)
Hayata 6 (6 events), 5 (7), 5 (17)
Hirano 15 (4 events), 44 (5), 18 (11)
Kihara 52 (3 events), 15 (6), 25 (13)
Nagasaki 67 (2 events), 96 (5), 26 (12)
Harimoto unranked (624 as of 2022/3/15), 71 (4), 16 (14)

 

[rpb23]

Currently, the hottest player has to be China's LSD. He was a three crown winner in WTT Almaty. A week later, he took the title in WTT champion Macao where he beat Harimoto, LYR and WCQ on his way to the final where he swept Qiu Dang. Another week later, he is in the thick of WTT China Smash. He has reached the semifinal stage on all three events he is competing.

A unprecedented repeat three crown winner in the making? We'll see.

LSD's stock value has risen significantly recently in Chinese coaches' eyes that they are giving him all the opportunities for major international events and certainly he didn't disappoint.

 

[dingyibvs]

You neglected to address the point where LSD and WCQ are pulling out the most blatantly illegal stuff at crucial moments. Find me the times when Lind does this and you can equate the two.

Yes, they do win more than Lind does. I'm not sure how this relates to the topic. Are you saying that Timo Boll complained about LSD and nobody else is that it wasn't blatant cheating but that he got upset that LSD waas too skilled? Connect the dots for me.

It seems like you're really dug into defending Lind and LSD serves as the same. Yes, I understand the free arm can hide the ball. That was never in question. But if you want to actually engage in fruitful conversation, it would be helpful if you could address the points I keep bringing up instead of going on tangents.

He's equating the two in the sense that cheating less is not morally better than cheating more. Cheating more does give you a bigger advantage though, so those who cheat more will get called out more IMO, and not just because they're winning more.

 

[driversbeat]

So close but not good enough. CIC dominanted the backhand exchanges but FSQ started pivoting the first half of the 7th game and CIC seemed to be in a bit of pain/started playing a lot softer after 2-7.

All chinese seminfinals again unless Ito can show her 5-9 vs Kim Nayeong form for seven full games.

 

[zeio]

And then Chen Meng wonders where her gold would be if she agreed with zeio...

As pointed out by Tieba users, Hirano has a game that counters CM. You never know. Hirano managed to get a 7:1 lead over SYS.

早田希娜是什么水平？ (What is Hayata Hina's level?)
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9125420727
草莓希娜 平野球风克制陈梦，所以很多人不希望平野打赢申 (Hirano's playing style counters CM, so many people didn't want Hirano to win against Shin)
IP属地:天津来自Android客户端38楼2024-08-12 18:43回复

 

[zeio]

LSD happens to win more, and of course more ppl complain when they lose vs when they win. Someone who wins or is expected to win against Anders Lind is not gonna complain too much about his serves. It's like complaining to the old grandpa whom you beat 11-3, that his no toss serves are illegal...kinda a bad look so most ppl ignore it rightly or wrongly.

Basing it on 'how many ppl complain' as a barometer for illegality is pretty wrong imo.

The free arm was the original method of hiding the serve, and imo hiding is hiding, regardless of whether it is shoulder (LSD) or free arm (Anders Lind) or head (WCQ style).

As Mizutani said about gamesmanship when competing overseas, players still complained even if they could see the contact as a way to get you to play into their hands. He even named Michael Maze for his fits that he took to heart at first. At the end of the day, Moregard and Lind are also trying to get an advantage as well.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/wtt-singapore-smash-2024-3-7-3-17.33147/post-447751

 

[driversbeat]

As pointed out by Tieba users, Hirano has a game that counters CM. You never know. Hirano managed to get a 7:1 lead over SYS.

Not being able to get deep enough of the draw to beat JNT players challenge the chinese is meaningless even given a 100% win rate if you have the best chance against them

 

[blahness]

He's equating the two in the sense that cheating less is not morally better than cheating more. Cheating more does give you a bigger advantage though, so those who cheat more will get called out more IMO, and not just because they're winning more.

Exactly. And especially complaining about other ppl cheating when you yourself are cheating, is a pretty hypocritical thing to do. But morality is not really something that is well rewarded in sports.

This is why imo Boll complaining about LSD serves, or Truls complaining about WCQ serves is solid, but coming from Anders Lind, it is basically pot calling the kettle black.

 

[zeio]

Not being able to get deep enough of the draw to beat JNT players challenge the chinese is meaningless even given a 100% win rate if you have the best chance against them

Ito didn't even get to play the Olympics. Chances are she would've crashed out even earlier.

For WT, Hayata was unreliable as I kept pointing out after WTTC 2022 and Miwa was immature as I kept pointing out after WTTC 2024 and who was it that carried the team to the final? So your point being?

The fact remains that Hayata and Hirano were the best JNT had to offer and both had their faults in different events, but Hirano had Hayata's back, yet you folks conveniently forget that Hayata said her best chance of getting a gold medal was in XD, only to crash out in 1st round/R16. A typical scenario of 一白遮三醜, or 色の白いは七難隠す in Japanese.

 

[dingyibvs]

Wang Manyu's backhand is so strong - I wonder whether He would have a better chance against someone like Sun Yingsha though there, she is probably outmatched on all fronts as well.

SYS has gotten much better on the BH side, though judging by her performance against the Indian team she may not be as great against pips.

 

[dingyibvs]

Potentially all Chinese semi-final so . . . . . 🥱 🥱 🥱 🥱

It'd be tough for XP to get past Moregard. He's a much more difficult opponent for XP than Felix IMO.

 

[driversbeat]

Ito didn't even get to play the Olympics. Chances are she would've crashed out even earlier.

For WT, Hayata was unreliable as I kept pointing out after WTTC 2022 and Miwa was immature as I kept pointing out after WTTC 2024 and who was it that carried the team to the final? So your point being?

The fact remains that Hayata and Hirano were the best JNT had to offer and both had their faults in different events, but Hirano had Hayata's back, yet you folks conveniently forget that Hayata said her best chance of getting a gold medal was in XD, only to crash out in 1st round/R16. A typical scenario of 一白遮三醜, or 色の白いは七難隠す in Japanese.

Singles and team are different events. And no one is saying Hirano didn't deserve her Olympic spot, she clearly outperformed Ito under the high pressure circumstance. All I'm saying is that Hayata and Ito deserve some credit when they perform well too, and that maybe we should expect a little less from Hirano because whether it's injury or a lack of ability, she simply hasn't had a standout singles performance in awhile.

 

[dingyibvs]

I didn't get to watch the Lind vs LSD game until now, but I don't see any difference between their services. Both are easy to see from the opposite corner, but would be hard to see for opposite handed players. That's probably why Lind had a relatively easy time with WCQ's services but not as much vs LSD. Players all toss the ball toward their body so much and use so much body momentum these days, it must be such a pain for opposite handed players to read each other's services.

 

[SFF_lib]

It'd be tough for XP to get past Moregard. He's a much more difficult opponent for XP than Felix IMO.

Far more entertaining to see Sweden vs China in the final.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Ma Long vs Lee Sangsu MS R16

LSS may have lost but his BH is superb. LSS's BH reminds me of the likes of legendary Kreanga, Kalinikos and Schlager. Well played LSS!

 

[zeio]

Yes, agreed. It seems a few people are obsessed with retiring talented women who have worked hard to get where they are. That's why there's a ranking system. If you apply these metrics to all players then most should retire because of a playing slump, age, or some other critique. Let's celebrate their talents and appreciate their inevitably colourful careers rather than constantly call for their retirement at every opportunity.

Laughable.

Ito's mom said on TV that she told Ito it was fine to quit if playing table tennis hurt so much. JJH said her boyfriend had told her to quit for years. Over at 5ch, Tieba, Douban and PTT, it's a blessing when players are urged to quit, considering some 5ch users would even tell their players to drop dead.

As Ishikawa once put it, strength is what a competition should be all about. They are not in it as pampered kids as Shine noted.

https://imgur.com/a/L2s52OA
I've reached my limit

It's painful to watch

Table tennis is that painful to Ito?

It's fine to quit

 

[AutomaticBackhand]

No one gonna mention this?