China Smash 2024, Beijing, 9/26-10/6

[dingyibvs]

Yeah but the scoreline will say something because as I watch the matches, He is much more aggressive than I remember though I haven't seen her in a while admittedly. Her present playing speed might very well trouble Wang.

I think she's been playing about the same, this is the last match I watched them play:

 

[rpb23]

Yeah but the scoreline will say something because as I watch the matches, He is much more aggressive than I remember though I haven't seen her in a while admittedly. Her present playing speed might very well trouble Wang.

My impression on He Zhuojia in this Smash is she has a much improved forehand and more inclined to use it. She even won a few forehand to forehand exchanges with Miwa.

 

[turbozed]

Lind is scolding LSD about his illegal serves during the match.

Needs to happen more often.

 

[blahness]

It was so frustrating watching the last set between Anton and LSD. LSD was starting to serve very obvious hidden serves. Anton's returns had been spot on the whole match, and then in the decider when LSD was starting to get behind, then he starts serving hidden serves and scores some easy points and gets the lead. this is followed by Anton switching to also serving hidden serves and almost catches up. Not a good 5th set for either of them ...

temptation is just too big to not use hidden serves or borderline hidden serves unfortunately....

Lind is scolding LSD about his illegal serves during the match.

Needs to happen more often.

Lind himself is illegal serving most of the time anyway lmao

 

[turbozed]

The one time the refs actually make a call on Lin's serve was a perfectly legal one, ironically haha

 

[blahness]

Anders Lind actually doesnt remove his free arm until it is super late. A bit like how Noshad serves. It is pretty much pot meet kettle these days....

 

[turbozed]

Anders Lind actually doesnt remove his free arm until it is super late. A bit like how Noshad serves. It is pretty much pot meet kettle these days....

I think it's a matter of degrees. Completely hidden serve and getting a ton of servce aces is a lot more egregious than technically illegal serves but ones other players can handle.

Until someone chill as Timo Boll complains about Lind's serve, I will say that LSD's case is worse.

 

[blahness]

It is stupid to have players 'self police' the hidden serves or borderline hidden serves. This kind of nonsense has been poisoning TT for a long af time. Really it needs Hawkeye and a challenge system.

 

[rpb23]

Our hero Lind's heroic journey ended in the hands of China's red hot young star LSD. It's a surprise and disappointment that Lind's magic couldn't buy him a single game.

 

[rpb23]

Dark horse He Zhuojia is at the table. If she can take down Wang Manyu, it will be another huge upset.
My heart is rooting for her, but my mind isn't.

 

[blahness]

I think it's a matter of degrees. Completely hidden serve and getting a ton of servce aces is a lot more egregious than technically illegal serves but ones other players can handle.

Until someone chill as Timo Boll complains about Lind's serve, I will say that LSD's case is worse.

Not removing free arm is completely illegal according to rules too. Just because his opponent could actually guess it based on trajectory or other things like sound, or by reducing error rates by delaying the receive timing or going for less aggressive receives, doesnt mean it is any less worse. Even when LSD is hiding his serve with his shoulder, there were plenty of times where his opponents could receive his serve.

I would say Lind complaining makes him look like a hypocrite, but Timo complaining is well justified since Timo doesnt hide his serve.

 

[zeio]

SYB beat Miu Hirano when she should have been at her best at the Paris Olympics. Thankfully, Super Hina was able to withstand SYB to grab the bronze. SYB also beat Miwa and Szocs at 2023 Contender Lima. JCH has beaten a lot of good players, but has a ton of trouble against Miwa. I'm not sure I can put her in the same category as SYB as she doesn't have a WTT title yet. But we'll see ... she is very talented. Too early to tell, but Kim Nayeong showing good form here at the China Smash.

Japan has definitely gotten stronger vs. 4 years ago. They had a chance to pull off the upset over China at the 2024 WTTTC. They would have had no chance 4 years ago.

Hirano was far from her best as I've noted before (1, 2).

The H2H before Paris 2024 also suggested SYB would have an easier time playing Hirano (1W1L, previous match at Asian Games 2022) than Hayata (4W0L, previous match at World Cup 2024) and Ito (2W0L, previous match at TWC 2019, so less useful a data point).

The fact that Hayata almost lost to SYB at World Cup 2024 and Pyon Song Gyong at Paris 2024 support my notion that Hayata could be just as shaky as SYB at times. I'd even argue that Hayata was lucky to have Hirano drained SYB (the same thing to WYD at WTTC 2023), who said she was drained and in a lot of pain after the match. As one Tieba user said, Hirano didn't seize the match point (Hirano looked back and said her weakness showed at 10:9), otherwise she would have had the better odds against an injured Hayata.

Once again, win rate against CNT (highest overall for Hirano, lowest overall for Ito) and non-CNT players should be taken separately (highest overall for Hayata and highest until 2023 for Hirano and Kihara). Their overall stats for the latter have gotten worse starting 2023.

 

[driversbeat]

Hirano was far from her best as I've noted before (1, [url]2[/url]).

The H2H before Paris 2024 also suggested SYB would have an easier time playing Hirano (1W1L, previous match at Asian Games 2022) than Hayata (4W0L, previous match at World Cup 2024) and Ito (2W0L, previous match at TWC 2019, so less useful a data point).

The fact that Hayata almost lost to SYB at World Cup 2024 and Pyon Song Gyong at Paris 2024 support my notion that Hayata could be just as shaky as SYB at times. I'd even argue that Hayata was lucky to have Hirano drained SYB (the same to WYD at WTTC 2023), who said she was drained and in a lot of pain after the match. As one Tieba user said, Hirano didn't seize the match point (Hirano looked back and said her weakness showed at 10:9), otherwise she would have had the better odds against an injured Hayata.

Once again, win rate against CNT (highest overall for Hirano, lowest overall for Ito) and non-CNT players should be taken separately (highest overall for Hayata and highest until 2023 for Hirano). Their overall stats for the latter have gotten worse starting 2023.

Hirano hasn't had a breakthrough singles performance in awhile, often stopping at R16 or quarterfinals at best in both international and domestic competitions. At some point you just have to accept that this is her level. Yes she has the potential to create occasional upsets, but that's what they are, upsets.

In other news, CXT beats SHW 4-0. Didn't expect that. Hopefully one of Ito, CIC and HZJ can put up a better fight against the great wall of China. Ironically it seems like CIC will have the best chance given her opponent is FSQ. Maybe she'll finally get a singles breakthrough after all these years.

*Edit: yes I'm aware HZJ is from China but unlike Gozo I wanna see pips in the semis

 

[mcfly]

Our hero Lind's heroic journey ended in the hands of China's red hot young star LSD. It's a surprise and disappointment that Lind's magic couldn't buy him a single game.

his tricks didn’t work against Lin’s stability
at this level tricks are not really playing a major part - Lind knew he lost after game 2

 

[NextLevel]

This is no laughing matter. Time is flying for them. They have roughly 3 to 5 years on average left to achieve their aspirations. They are about to peak physically, and things will get harder and harder after 25, when their odds will be in slow decline, so a chance not taken is an opportunity missed and a regret waiting to happen.

It's for that reason I first started voicing concerns about Ishikawa's career when she turned 23 years old. SYS also mentioned about being 23 and the rise of Harimoto in an interview ahead of WTTC 2023 (05/15/2023 at 4:14pm). Ito has also mulled quitting at 23. Back in 1/2017, Hirano told the media she wanted to retire at 23 and get married (see quote below). She expressed in a recent interview that despite being only 24, the next generation of young players like Takeya is 16 and she'll be competing against younger and younger players in the future who look to surpass their generation, so she'll have to keep herself updated to remain competitive. Hayata, with Hirano making a guest appearance, also touched on in episode #1302 of Jonetsu Tairiku the topic of retirement.

平野美宇が「寿引退」宣言　伊藤美誠「自分も」
https://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/1771320.html

And then Chen Meng wonders where her gold would be if she agreed with zeio...

 

[SFF_lib]

Potentially all Chinese semi-final so . . . . . 🥱 🥱 🥱 🥱

 

[NextLevel]

I think she's been playing about the same, this is the last match I watched them play:

Wang Manyu's backhand is so strong - I wonder whether He would have a better chance against someone like Sun Yingsha though there, she is probably outmatched on all fronts as well.

 

[turbozed]

Not removing free arm is completely illegal according to rules too. Just because his opponent could actually guess it based on trajectory or other things like sound, or by reducing error rates by delaying the receive timing or going for less aggressive receives, doesnt mean it is any less worse. Even when LSD is hiding his serve with his shoulder, there were plenty of times where his opponents could receive his serve.

I would say Lind complaining makes him look like a hypocrite, but Timo complaining is well justified since Timo doesnt hide his serve.

No, the point I was making is that Lind's arm isn't actually hiding the contact, even it might obscure the ball path. There's a reason why no player complains about it, and my assumption is that they probably can see the contact. If they didn't, then Lind would get more complaints and more outright serve aces like LSD.

If they are equally as bad and conceal the service as you suggest, why is LSD getting more flak and more frustration from other players? Are they just bullying him and giving Lind a pass? I find that hard to believe. Like I mentioned, even Timo complaining is strong evidence of it being egregious and not just your standard problematic seve.

Technically speaking, most players have some sort of illegality in their serves at one point or another. To suggest that purposeful cheaters and people with technically illegal but manageable serves is the same is really giving a pass to cheaters that are relying on it for easy points. LSD, like WCQ are two that hide the ball more obviously when the scorelines are close or they need the points. In this game against Lind, it was to outright win Game 3. For WCQ, it was 2 in a row against Truls to go up 0-2 in the Olympics. Neither of these two are going to make a video on Youtube saying that illegal serves is a huge problem, and admit that they're sometimes guilty of it too.

There's a pattern of gaining advantage in crucial moments and aggravating other players that Lind is simply not guilty of and which you are completely ignoring to equate the two. In an ideal world we would want them both to have zero problems with their serve. But in this one, it's not just fair for him to call out LSD's serves for his own benefit, it's good for the sport.

 

[blahness]

No, the point I was making is that Lind's arm isn't actually hiding the contact, even it might obscure the ball path. There's a reason why no player complains about it, and my assumption is that they probably can see the contact. If they didn't, then Lind would get more complaints and more outright serve aces like LSD.

If they are equally as bad and conceal the service as you suggest, why is LSD getting more flak and more frustration from other players? Are they just bullying him and giving Lind a pass? I find that hard to believe. Like I mentioned, even Timo complaining is strong evidence of it being egregious and not just your standard problematic seve.

Technically speaking, most players have some sort of illegality in their serves at one point or another. To suggest that purposeful cheaters and people with technically illegal but manageable serves is the same is really giving a pass to cheaters that are relying on it for easy points. LSD, like WCQ are two that hide the ball more obviously when the scorelines are close or they need the points. In this game against Lind, it was to outright win Game 3. For WCQ, it was 2 in a row against Truls to go up 0-2 in the Olympics. Neither of these two are going to make a video on Youtube saying that illegal serves is a huge problem, and admit that they're sometimes guilty of it too.

There's a pattern of gaining advantage in crucial moments and aggravating other players that Lind is simply not guilty of and which you are completely ignoring to equate the two. In an ideal world we would want them both to have zero problems with their serve. But in this one, it's not just fair for him to call out LSD's serves for his own benefit, it's good for the sport.

LSD happens to win more, and of course more ppl complain when they lose vs when they win. Someone who wins or is expected to win against Anders Lind is not gonna complain too much about his serves. It's like complaining to the old grandpa whom you beat 11-3, that his no toss serves are illegal...kinda a bad look so most ppl ignore it rightly or wrongly.

Basing it on 'how many ppl complain' as a barometer for illegality is pretty wrong imo.

The free arm was the original method of hiding the serve, and imo hiding is hiding, regardless of whether it is shoulder (LSD) or free arm (Anders Lind) or head (WCQ style).

 

[rpb23]

Like Lind, HZJ's China Smash journey also ended. Even in defeat, both gained a very memorable tournament achievement and impression. Unlike Lind, though, HZJ did take at least one game out a formidable opponent in WMY.