China Smash 2024, Beijing, 9/26-10/6

[dingyibvs]

How is WTT price money distributed? Here is the problem: almost half of the players entered only plays one match before they leave. For these players, would the price money they get from just one match cover their trip expense(flight, room/board, etc..) assuming quite some of them are not lucky enough to have sponsorship?

For big events like Smash I would think most players from qualification round will lose money. I would also think these players probably get some financial assistance from their TT federation and/or sponsorship. For Japanese players, I think JTTF selects the players for each event and pays the expense. Not sure if JTTF gets a cut from players' price money. China does the similar thing.

What about most European players?

From financial stand point, for event like Smash, at which round (R64, R32, R16, etc) a player can make even?

That's a problem with sports in general, and a reason why the "chase your dreams"-averse Asian parents don't typically want their kids to pursue sports. Very few people who pursue sports as a career actually get positive return on their investment. For TT it's just the top few pros. Something more popular like Tennis may extend that down further to lower tier pros, but you also have more competition and it's most costly so you're both less likely to become a pro in the first place and you'll pay more for trying.

 

[blahness]

That's a problem with sports in general, and a reason why the "chase your dreams"-averse Asian parents don't typically want their kids to pursue sports. Very few people who pursue sports as a career actually get positive return on their investment. For TT it's just the top few pros. Something more popular like Tennis may extend that down further to lower tier pros, but you also have more competition and it's most costly so you're both less likely to become a pro in the first place and you'll pay more for trying.

Sad but true... applies even in music. Only the top 0.1% get to eat.

Way easier just to study hard and get a high pay STEM job...

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

How is WTT price money distributed? Here is the problem: almost half of the players entered only plays one match before they leave. For these players, would the price money they get from just one match cover their trip expense(flight, room/board, etc..) assuming quite some of them are not lucky enough to have sponsorship?

For big events like Smash I would think most players from qualification round will lose money. I would also think these players probably get some financial assistance from their TT federation and/or sponsorship. For Japanese players, I think JTTF selects the players for each event and pays the expense. Not sure if JTTF gets a cut from players' price money. China does the similar thing.

What about most European players?

From financial stand point, for event like Smash, at which round (R64, R32, R16, etc) a player can make even?

There is no entry or local costs. Accommodations/ entry etc is covered by wtt
Player must just get themselves there.

I think qualifying first round is usd1300

 

[zeio]

WTT Smash is for players to compete and make money.
so, is that greed, or should all players just sit out and allow lower ranked players to jump the queue?
I quite don't get your logic.

Ito achieved the spot from her own merit.
it wasn't a, "we got 1 ticket left and lets choose between Ito or Hashimoto" and Ito took the spot away from Hashimoto....

Chuang Chih Yuan wants to retire and he gave up his spot, guess who got it, sure wasn't a Taiwanese player.

your logic is a bit flawed.

It has nothing to do with the commercial nature of WTT events.

CCY's case is different as it has nothing to do with NER and his spot did go to a TPE player. The main draw of WTT GS is limited to the top 50 (Automatic Entry). Who else were qualified at time of entry other than LYJ, Kao Cheng-Jui and CCY? Yet, due to the withdrawals of several players, Feng Yi-Hsin made the cut.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/2024_34_SEN_MS.html
WR7 LYJ
WR32 Kao Cheng-Jui
WR39 CCY
WR56 Feng Yi-Hsin

OTOH, Hashimoto was within the top 50 but was declined by the NER as there were 9 JPN players.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/2024_34_SEN_WS.html
WR5 Hayata
WR8 Harimoto
WR9 Ito
WR12 Hirano
WR26 Kihara
WR28 Nagasaki
WR30 Mori
WR32 Odo
WR41 Hashimoto

Ito has not been shy of speaking her mind over the use of selection trials for Paris 2024 and made herself crystal clear after losing the WS spot to Hirano at Zennihon Takkyu 2024 that she will be more greedy and try a little harder despite thinking of quitting. [1, 2]

There is no need to sugar-coat it. It is pure greed. Ito has admitted her style doesn't mix well with selection trials and it's said that she "bent" the rules in her favor by requesting the addition of points for beating any Top 3 CNT players (but failed miserably to get any). So like Ishikawa at the start of the Paris 2024 cycle, Ito is getting in the way of her teammates by the merits of her WR, that is, Ito has a different starting line and she is well aware of it. The fact that she opted to qualify for ATTC 2024 and WTTC 2025 by WR instead of selection trial highlights her awkward position on the team just like Ishikawa after Rio 2016 when she was also 23.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

It has nothing to do with the commercial nature of WTT events.

CCY's case is different as it has nothing to do with NER and his spot did go to a TPE player. The main draw of WTT GS is limited to the top 50 (Automatic Entry). Who else were qualified at time of entry other than LYJ, Kao Cheng-Jui and CCY? Yet, due to the withdrawals of several players, Feng Yi-Hsin made the cut.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/2024_34_SEN_MS.html
WR7 LYJ
WR32 Kao Cheng-Jui
WR39 CCY
WR56 Feng Yi-Hsin

OTOH, Hashimoto was within the top 50 but was declined by the NER as there were 9 JPN players.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/2024_34_SEN_WS.html
WR5 Hayata
WR8 Harimoto
WR9 Ito
WR12 Hirano
WR26 Kihara
WR28 Nagasaki
WR30 Mori
WR32 Odo
WR41 Hashimoto

Ito has not been shy of speaking her mind over the use of selection trials for Paris 2024 and made herself crystal clear after losing the WS spot to Hirano at Zennihon Takkyu 2024 that she will be more greedy and try a little harder despite thinking of quitting. [1, 2]

There is no need to sugar-coat it. It is pure greed. Ito has admitted her style doesn't mix well with selection trials and it's said that she "bent" the rules in her favor by requesting the addition of points for beating any Top 3 CNT players (but failed miserably to get any). So like Ishikawa at the start of the Paris 2024 cycle, Ito is getting in the way of her teammates by the merits of her WR, that is, Ito has a different starting line and she is well aware of it. The fact that she opted to qualify for ATTC 2024 and WTTC 2025 by WR instead of selection trial highlights her awkward position on the team just like Ishikawa after Rio 2016 when she was also 23.

So how many people you want to be un-greedy for no 9 to become a number 6?

Why can’t number 9 just play more to get more points to be number 6? (she played only 3 events at the time)

Even if Ito is un-greedy as you call it, it still doesn’t make Hashimoto in the mix of things. She still becomes number 8 only
I still don’t get your logic with or without sugar coating or any coating.....

pro players need to be greedy, it is they income stream.
Hashimoto needs to be more greedy and play more events, there is no other explanation at this moment.

If you can't beat them, don't call them names and bully/belittle them. It may be a famous thing to do in some of your preferred forums, but surely it isn't right.

WTT is an individual pro sport, especially on WTT circuit. Smash is not a teams event so there is no need to bring in ITTF related stories into a WTT setup. I am not a Ito fan too.

 

[zeio]

Sad but true... applies even in music. Only the top 0.1% get to eat.

Way easier just to study hard and get a high pay STEM job...

Plot twist: China has entered the chat.

Roughly 1/3 US STEM graduates were Chinese...

https://cset.georgetown.edu/article...-stem-graduates-which-countries-lead-the-way/

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

and here is a post for the Hashimoto fans.

Since she didn't make the NER cut for Smash (or Champion), it is WTT policy that she has priority for entering Contender and Star Contender even if ranked high... so the PDR Top 20 etc you get priority.
So Hashimoto gets priority to play a star contender over Ito etc to get the points to try climb

but guess what is the secret - she must go and play more events.

 

[zeio]

lets stop blaming and making excuses and look at really what happened.
at the time of entry, this is Hashimoto's WR and points...
she only took part in 3 events this year. now the question is why? She is not a kid, she controls her own destiny and surely she would want to have at least 8 events to maximize on it to climb / jump the queue?


View attachment 32254

Even today, she only has 5 events (WR30) where someone like Ito has nearly 3 times more
WR29 has 17 events, WR28 has 20 events, WR31 has 21 events.
WR30 Hashimoto has 5 events....

do we blame Ito for Hashimoto's lack of participation? or should we blame Hayata for not retiring....
I am shocked to see that Hashimoto has almost less game time than part time pros.

Can't agree more, Pot. Over, Kettle. 冇鏡咪屙篤尿照下自己囉。

Back in 2016, you said China did its part to help the world and South Africa got the better end of the deal.
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...table-tennis-team-be-beaten.14291/post-170352
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...table-tennis-team-be-beaten.14291/post-170618
Fast-forward to 2024. What wrong have China done to you?
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...-domination-of-table-tennis.31236/post-409053
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...pionships-finals-busan-2024.32987/post-444951

 

[zeio]

The real problem is with WTT and their NER (National Entry Restriction) limits which is 6 for Grand Smashes. It's a shame that players like Satsuki Odo (WR#17) and Honoka Hashimoto (WR#30) among others are not invited because of NER. China is fortunate this time as it's held in China and they get a ton of Host Wildcards, but they are also affected by this at the Singapore and Saudi Smash events. Smash events are supposed to be a premier event yet many of the best players in the world many of whom regularly attend and do well at WTT events do not get invited yet players up to around WR#200 get the invite.

JTTA has itself to blame as well. Too poor to host a GS (1000 million JPY ~ 7 million USD in 2022). They haven't done enough of their part for WTT. That's not much better than DTTB. Both of them were very quick to criticize, and for the latter, even sabotage the WTT.

「卓球界が潰される」。宮崎氏の批判に答えるITTFのデイントンCEO。「WTTは新しいビジネスモデルを作ろうとしている」
https://world-tt.com/blog/news/archives/4510
【卓球】異例の変更。7月のブダペストの「グランドスマッシュ」が「チャンピオン」「スターコンテンダー」へ格下げ
https://world-tt.com/blog/news/archives/23576
WTTに参戦する選手たちの経済的負担。卓球のプロ選手はどこを目指すのか
https://world-tt.com/blog/news/archives/129111

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Can't agree more, Pot. Over, Kettle. 冇鏡咪屙篤尿照下自己囉。

Back in 2016, you said China did its part to help the world and South Africa got the better end of the deal.
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...table-tennis-team-be-beaten.14291/post-170352
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...table-tennis-team-be-beaten.14291/post-170618
Fast-forward to 2024. What wrong have China done to you?
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...-domination-of-table-tennis.31236/post-409053
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...pionships-finals-busan-2024.32987/post-444951

why can't you just accept if one person plays 3 events for the year and ranked number 9, and doesn't make the 6 NER, you can't really blame players 1 to 8 for being higher ranked?

I mean, the whole new "play more rank higher" has been around for a few years now.

quoting links can't change the fact that she played 3 events!
trying to be clever on words to overcome the illogical thoughts of Ito stealing spots.... I am speechless.
just accept that Ito has nothing to do with her playing 3 events in a year and we can move on.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

I'd prefer to get rid of NER altogether, but maybe as a compromise, make NER applicable only to the Main Draw. Not to pick on anyone but for purposes of example, Neda Shahsavari, only played 2 WTT events (plus Olympics, WTTC, and ATTC) but is near the end of the Qualifiers.

Edit: So then if NER prevents Odo and Hashimoto from going into the Main Draw, then put them in qualifiers.

 

[backspacer]

There is also a Feeder event in Doha starting before the China Smash is over. Hashimoto and Sato will be there at least.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

JTTA has itself to blame as well. Too poor to host a GS (1000 million JPY ~ 7 million USD in 2022). They haven't done enough of their part for WTT. That's not much better than DTTB. Both of them were very quick to criticize, and for the latter, even sabotage the WTT.

「卓球界が潰される」。宮崎氏の批判に答えるITTFのデイントンCEO。「WTTは新しいビジネスモデルを作ろうとしている」
https://world-tt.com/blog/news/archives/4510
【卓球】異例の変更。7月のブダペストの「グランドスマッシュ」が「チャンピオン」「スターコンテンダー」へ格下げ
https://world-tt.com/blog/news/archives/23576
WTTに参戦する選手たちの経済的負担。卓球のプロ選手はどこを目指すのか
https://world-tt.com/blog/news/archives/129111

7 million USD to host an event. Potential host countries must have evaluated that they aren't goint to get 7 million USD in benefits. It's been 5 years since WTT started, and there still isn't a full 4 Grand Smashes per year that it promised.

 

[NextLevel]

Not surprised. To be a chopper killer, you have to have a powerful and consistent forehand loop. Jia's forehand is consistent but not powerful enough to penetrate a good chopper like Wang. Actually, in this match, Jia had problems reading Wang's spin. He looped with some hesitation and often under or over lifted the incoming backspin.

Who is the absolute chopper killer? The retired cloud walker Xu Xin whose forehand packed with spin, pace and power regularly passed by the defenders and leave them in the dust.

Kanak generally beats choppers. Wang played a good match and was able to also mix offense with defense. I have no doubt that Kanak will win whenever they play next.

 

[FIXPOINT]

China Smash 2024 MS QLF R3

 

[FIXPOINT]

China Smash 2024 WS QLF R3

 

[Snek]

Finally!
Benedek Olah is in the main draw! Against Quadri aruna! Worlds best backhand vs worlds best forehand? Also TV production is better here than in lower wtt, so I will see him play from better angles.
Benedek needs to show who is hobby player!

 

[FIXPOINT]

China Smash 2024 WS Draw

 

[FIXPOINT]

China Smash 2024 MS Draw

 

[piligrim]

Finally!
Benedek Olah is in the main draw! Against Quadri aruna! Worlds best backhand vs worlds best forehand? Also TV production is better here than in lower wtt, so I will see him play from better angles.
Benedek needs to show who is hobby player!

World best backhand? World best forehand? You must kidding