Chinese Women! What would be their ranking if they were men?

[Tony's Table Tennis]

One of my friends was on the CNT and ranked in the top 5 in the world. She said the men could give the top women around 7 points in a game to 21 and still win without taking it too seriously. Another friend was on the Army Team in China and said Liu GuoLiang could beat the entire women's team using shakehand grip before he joined the national team.

I agree with the first part and I heard the same about LGL too.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

more matches

Ding Ning vs Nick Tio

LSW vs N Kumar

Chen Meng vs Zhou Xin

None of these mens are even near 100 in the world.

 

[JJ Ng]

Men's bodies and women's bodies are built differently. Just because table tennis involves a smaller ball, it does not mean that the difference does not exist. The rules that apply to tennis probably applies to table tennis as well. Men v.s. women in tennis has been staged multiple times in the past few decades. Just google it.

Table tennis requires a lot of explosion in your movements. Male players just do that better than female players.

 

[turbozed]

Men's bodies and women's bodies are built differently. Just because table tennis involves a smaller ball, it does not mean that the difference does not exist. The rules that apply to tennis probably applies to table tennis as well. Men v.s. women in tennis has been staged multiple times in the past few decades. Just google it.

Table tennis requires a lot of explosion in your movements. Male players just do that better than female players.

While the physical differences probably is enough to explain the gap, another thing that hasn't been mentioned is that there are just far more men playing table tennis than women, and therefore a much bigger talent pool to draw from.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

@Tony's Table Tennis : It's always easy to reach a Pro A Club, if you have the good mindset.
Especially with table tennis, which is not soccer, of course.

I won't do it, because I have better things to do: helping local countryside kids to play and compete, instead of staying at home watching TikTok. Also, doing happily my correct paid job (not in TT), that is also properly filling my social and reputation needs. Not everyone is looking forward to know "famous" players.

Just as a reminder:
- I didn't say that power is useless. I just said it is a parameter.
- I didn't say that half of the humanity would occupy half of the top rank positions.

In addition, for what I know about Pro A and B women, it is known that the salary difference between men and women is huge. I would bet some would try the Men pro team, for a better salary - it doesn't mean they would be successful.

I only suggest it because I talk to a lot of pro women players and I know where they feature in terms of playing levels against mens.

You on the other hand, overrated womens TT to mens, so I thought it would be good for you to talk to players and after some research, you can hopefully understand the distance you think they can be, from what they actually are. It is basically just using resources that should be easily reachable for you, to increase your knowledge on the matter than to just wild guess - or you can just watch those videos I shared on how CNT womens struggled to beat a bunch of unranked mens (boys).

Another example I can share because I know the players is Kotomi and her younger brother (3 years younger). while she is more popular and have better results with international and domestic, her younger brother (now 17), around 3 years ago can beat Kotomi and now it will be straights and under 5.

If you are ever with womens teams, you will know they train with mens quite often, and the skill gap is no secret.

 

[lodro]

Anyway, as we say in France, "if my aunt had some, she would be my uncle".

When I watch some of the top women perform i sometimes wonder if they actually "have some" 😂

 

[HerveMasson]

Felix lebrun got strong on international stage at 16, harimoto even sonner, and few other exemples. To make me beleive that an adult women physicaly trained professionnaly would be disavantage over them would be hard.

This question is not as simple as it seems. How high ranked would peak women in mixed category after like 25 years and similar training and opportunity for every talents (men and women) is a good question to me. I dont know truly, top 50 I'd say at minimum.

 

[JJ Ng]

Felix lebrun got strong on international stage at 16, harimoto even sonner, and few other exemples. To make me beleive that an adult women physicaly trained professionnaly would be disavantage over them would be hard.

This question is not as simple as it seems. How high ranked would peak women in mixed category after like 25 years and similar training and opportunity for every talents (men and women) is a good question to me. I dont know truly, top 50 I'd say at minimum.

See the link below. USA National women's soccer team got beat by U15 boys soccer team.

We are not here spreading some weird propaganda.

FC Dallas under-15 boys squad beat the U.S. Women's National Team in a scrimmage

The match was in preparation for Thursday's USWNT friendly versus Russia

www.cbssports.com

 

[lightspin]

Call me crazy, it won't be the first time and definitely not the last, but I think the CNT women's team viewed their match against the USA men's team in the spirit of friendship and not trying to be embarrassing. I also seem to remember Xu Xin being involved in a doubles match against team USA and feeling insulted which resulted in the next game being won by China 11-0.

While in China, some of the coaches said that women have much worse depth perception than men and were more susceptible to trickery. Here is a study that seems to back this up: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5951855/

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Lily Zhang is USATT 2575, world rank 38
Amy is 2568, WR65
Sally is 2527 WR97

so, which mens players can the 3 beat?

Ma Jinbao 2812, WR105
Zhou Xin 2751
Liang Jishan 2745
Nikhil Kumar 2723
Nandan Naresh 2703, WR126
Sid Naresh 2649, WR127

let me bring in some U2600 players - which 3 girls do you think can beat here
Dan Liu 2589
Ved Sheth 2578
Mishel Levinski 2558
Victor Liu 2552
Daniel Tran 2534
Ryan Lin 2496

 

[Nakira]

@Tony's Table Tennis :

So, I checked the ranking points in France.

According to my personal observation in various tournaments, this ranking is accurate enough, to evaluate a player level, whatever his gender is. For exemple, a woman with a 2000pts ranking, has 50% chance of beating a man with also 2000 pts.

Jianan is currently our best female player. She has 2800 points.

This is the equivalent of the male N°100 in France. So if we extend France status to the world, SYS would be N°100.

But, for me, as awesome Jianan is, she is not as genetically exceptional than SYS is. Not as, for exemple, the Lebruns are for the French males.

In addition, in France we have a cultural issue with women in high level Sport. Many others countries have the same problem, and not only Western Ones.
In China they does not seem to have this issue. They push little girls as much as little boys to make the nation internationally shine, and that's why Chinese women will dominate Table Tennis for decades ( if not forever).

So we cannot extend France to the World. We can say that Chinese Women ( the original thread title, not 'all women') would do much better than France, and their best women would be better than WR N°100.

And about SYS, well if you say that I'm overating her... it's fine, she deserves it anyway.

 

[turbozed]

So we cannot extend France to the World. We can say that Chinese Women ( the original thread title, not 'all women') would do much better than France, and their best women would be better than WR N°100.

I'm not following the logic used to get to this conclusion.

If France doesn't have more than 100 male players that aren't at the level of one of their female players, that could just be because of a lack of players at a pro/semi-pro level.

If you extend rankings to the rest of the world, you're dealing with a pool of players 100x as large as France, and the problem of lack of male players at a sufficient level completely goes away.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

what ever logic comes from France, CNT womens team does not train with CNT mens team.
they train with much weaker mens players from provincial teams.

and lets come to JNT womens, the 2nd best womens national team on the planet. They also don't train with their mighty mens team, they train with they own sparing partner and guess where they are from? Chinese provincial teams.

In Taiwan, our womens make use of Japanese men's university team and Taiwans junior boy team as spairing partners.
all the above example, shows that the level is good enough to possible even better than the womens players in question.

all you need to do is watch them train in the training hall and end of discussion

If you extend rankings to the rest of the world, you're dealing with a pool of players 100x as large as France, and the problem of lack of male players at a sufficient level completely goes away.

agree

 

[HerveMasson]

See the link below. USA National women's soccer team got beat by U15 boys soccer team.

We are not here spreading some weird propaganda.

FC Dallas under-15 boys squad beat the U.S. Women's National Team in a scrimmage

The match was in preparation for Thursday's USWNT friendly versus Russia

www.cbssports.com

Hi,

Here is a forum about table tennis no ? This question is specific to each sports. For exemple is it normal that chess has seperate categories ? Hard to answer yes. Is it normal that basket-ball or 100m has seperate categories ? Hard to answer no.

Table tennis is at a place where physic of athletes is a factor, but very few teenage boy or out of shape elder like he ziwen could perform. So to me the question is not that easy. It's about culture, a lot.

 

[Nakira]

See the link below. USA National women's soccer team got beat by U15 boys soccer team.

We are not here spreading some weird propaganda.

The thread is potential Men WR equivalency for top Chinese Women in table tennis.

Not asking for mixity in WTT, or talking about general differences between men and women.

You're the one spreading weird propaganda here.

 

[Tha_Homeless]

It has been fun read at times. Nice to know the women's teams are practicing with men's provincial teams. But keep in mind:

Something purely hypothetical is discussed here: "Chinese Women! What would be their ranking if they were men?" We will never know the answer to OP's question for sure.

 

[XpingpingpongpongX]

In an interview, Deng Yaping once was told that she should play in the men's games because she was a beast. She replied something like, don't be silly, I couldn't even win one game against anyone in the second team of the CNT.

I think Zhang Yining and Chen Meng probably has a chance to break into the top 100, because they are not just technically solid, but also mentally strong. Other players would have very low chance.

 

[GSpotSniper]

Call me crazy, it won't be the first time and definitely not the last, but I think the CNT women's team viewed their match against the USA men's team in the spirit of friendship and not trying to be embarrassing. I also seem to remember Xu Xin being involved in a doubles match against team USA and feeling insulted which resulted in the next game being won by China 11-0.

While in China, some of the coaches said that women have much worse depth perception than men and were more susceptible to trickery. Here is a study that seems to back this up: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5951855/

The depth perception thing makes sense biologically. From our hunter gatherer background, men were the ones who had to hunt, usually using thrown tools so obviously depth perception was an extremely important trait.

Women are more successful in fashion careers, design, etc - it is proven they actually have better color perception and differentiation than men due to the gatherer nature in the past, discerning edible flora.

 

[GSpotSniper]

One thing I do truly love about TT is how egalitarian it is at the lower levels, especially when compared to other sports!

For example, I have been playing other sports my entire life, like Tennis , Boxing, Basketball. In these sports, I have never found a 12 year old girl that could challenge me at all after I became an adult. These sports are simply too physical. Any 70yr old man would be hard pressed to return any of my fast tennis serves, and of course would not be able to keep up in a 2min spar in the boxing ring. I'm gonna dunk over any 12 yr old girl XD.

But in TT...I have lost so many times to every single demographic. The young, old, handicapped, can reach a very competent level. Again, this is all at the local level - I know at the top levels the difference in gender is very pronounced. But the fact that this difference is muted at the lower levels - where 95% of all players are - is why TT is one of the best sports in the world!

 

[Tommy Lee]

Impossible get in TOP 100, once the male player gets familiar with the female player's playing style, the power, speed and spin of male will devastating females.