Christmas came early this year

[Archosaurus]

Yeah. That is my blade Archie. There are no splinters on my blade. That is 100% the grain of the wood. The word splinter means something different than that.

I wouldn't take the rubber off to seal the blade. But when you do take the rubbers off, take them off very gently and then seal the blade after you take the rubber off. It will be worth doing. But only when you have some reason where you need to take the rubbers off.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Thought so. It's too uniform and looks deliberate to be damage. I was just erring on the side of caution.


I don't intend to reglue any time soon, but if there comes a reason to, I will make sure to peel them off very slowly, with the grain I presume, and then seal the blade.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

What I thought, but I've not expected an instrument like a table tennis blade to have such grain.

There was a single small splinter on the handle, but otherwise the blade is fine. At least now I know it's normal, and just the grain. Thanks.

That is Limba. Here an OSP Virtuoso:

A Stiga Clipper:

Same top ply. You can see the grain. That is the grain from the cut they use on those blades.

 

[NextLevel]

Here you go. I've tried maybe 8 chinese style rubber about that price , 3 729 3 dhs 2 globe 1palio and a few others, 729 is pretty darn spiny. More so for a beginner than the neo series and it's softer and easier to spin than the non neo.

Anyhow I personally found t05 to be much more spiny and controllable than stiga airoc astro m. But really fast and spin deficient with my stroke which is a super thin brush compared to almost every tacky rubber. If you are saying 729 fx tacky isn't spiny I feel you should re evaluate your grading criteria.

In fact if you can find me a better traditional Chinese rubber for the same price or the t05 (I can get them for 3.50 in gbp) I will re evaluate my best barging price rubbers. But 729 for 350 a sheet or globe for 5 pounds a sheet are my number 1 for cheap...9

Sorry if this came off as mean but I feel you were bullying a little by saying 729 isn't particularly good for its price. Which it's pretty much considered just for being a good cheap rubber.

I mean arch has just got a new decent set up after several bouts of (quite well deserved) banter and pooping on this is somthing I frown on.

If you'd like aditonal opinions here are about 10 negative and 50 postie reviews which a lot consider it to be towards beginners and spin http://www.tabletennisdb.com/rubber/729-super-fx.html

Since it's a public forum, it's only reasonable that you inject yourself into something you don't understand. I was not debating whether 729FX was spinny or not - I was debating archo's justification for saying so.

Since archo knows what I am getting at by "bullying" him, I won't debate the smaller point. Archo tends to sound more knowledgeable about things than his experience warrants and rarely provides the full context for his claims so I will "bully" him to get that context so that he knows how misleading he can be.

You can defend him all you want, but if you want to debate the fact that 729 FX is pretty standard Euro Chinese fare and not that different from say Dawei XP 2008 or Friendship Focus III etc., we can get into it elsewhere. But at least, you are speaking from trying quite a few rubbers. Archo admits to not having tried any rubbers but never seems to get that he should mostly be comparing his current experience to his prior experience.

 

[Archosaurus]

Thanks, Carl. You've cleared my conscience a bit. It looks quite good, so it'd have been a shame if it was damaged.


The balance and weight of this blade is so nice that I think I won't have problems adjusting. I can spin very easily with this, almost feels like cheating. I really wanna see what serves look like!

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Now, let the fun begin.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[laistrogian]

This rubber is ridiculously tacky and spinny. I can feel it grab onto the ball, and I'm not even brushing it very hard right now.

http://i.imgur.com/ZzSXiQi.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/aHHH2LD.jpg

As far as I can remember, the 729 FX was an abomination for me. It's slow but doesn't have enough spin and there's no real feedback from the sponge itself.

 

[Suga D]

As far as I can remember, the 729 FX was an abomination for me. It's slow but doesn't have enough spin and there's no real feedback from the sponge itself.

I believe, that coming from a Euro/Japanese rubber one could get this impression, but coming from a dead 'anti-like' premade bat the 729fx is nuff responsive and nuff bouncy and probably not so bad at all.

Hang in there, Arch.
My first "real" bat was also with the 729 about 30 years ago, and I still have one of them on one of my bats i use for outdoor play.
Everyone tried to talk it out of me and that I instead should use japanese rubbers, but my dad didn't want to spend so much money, not knowing if I would stick to tabletennis, since I was also playing football (just to make sure: not American Football).
But after a while I started beating those guys. That was when they stopped talkin'
[Emoji2]
Enjoy your new racket, buddy.

 

[Archosaurus]

I've played with a little higher end Euro rubber, and I can definitely feel the lack of sudden response and speed, when bouncing for example. I would describe it as "slightly better than a dead premade".

We must remember that you need different technique with tacky rubber and non-tacky or even tensor.

I haven't done an extensive comparison yet, but I think you need to play more active, spinnier shots with tacky rubber to have it feel as good as euro rubber. It definitely doesn't feel as "sudden" or willing to go off the bat: but that's exactly what I want.

EDIT: Also, the response is only when bouncing and doing light shots, not even onto a table.

Apparently the rubber has pretty good gears, so logically it should respond a lot more to a faster swing. So we will see just how slow it is when I hit with it today.

 

[kukamonga]

who in their right mind would buy friendship 729 rubbers????

 

[NextLevel]

I've played with a little higher end Euro rubber, and I can definitely feel the lack of sudden response and speed, when bouncing for example. I would describe it as "slightly better than a dead premade".

We must remember that you need different technique with tacky rubber and non-tacky or even tensor.

I haven't done an extensive comparison yet, but I think you need to play more active, spinnier shots with tacky rubber to have it feel as good as euro rubber. It definitely doesn't feel as "sudden" or willing to go off the bat: but that's exactly what I want.

EDIT: Also, the response is only when bouncing and doing light shots, not even onto a table.

Apparently the rubber has pretty good gears, so logically it should respond a lot more to a faster swing. So we will see just how slow it is when I hit with it today.

So educate me, what are the differences in technique that one needs when using tacky vs non-tacky rubbers and what is your experience with them? Since you haven't done an extensive comparison, have you considered the possibility that these differences change from.rubber to rubber? Just because a rubber is made in China doesn't mean it is tacky. And have you considered the possibility that these are optimization differences and not basic stroke differences?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Archie, that kind of rubber is slower on direct impact but when you get the right touch with your contact the way the topsheet grabs makes it decently fast enough. But now you know why people say you can't be lazy and have to take a full swing with Chinese type rubbers.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[Archosaurus]

@kukamonga

What would you have suggested for a beginner of about 2 years who is learning to play with heavy spin?

@NextLevel

I had to change my stroke when comparing low end professional grade non-tacky Euro rubber to low end professional grade tacky Chinese rubber.

The difference was less than I thought it'd be, but generally I have to close my blade angle more and accelerate the blade face faster. The tackiness makes swing angle more important, because it's possible to catapult the ball way off or right into the net. Tackiness seems to help in neutralizing spin if blocking technique is good enough. I think the differences among lower end equipment are not as big as among higher end equipment.

Otherwise, I suspect my level is not high enough to really notice the minute differences. Maybe I will notice more once I play with it a bit more. I'd also need to play with at least ten of each variety to better know what's rubber dependent and what's a trait of tackiness or non-tackiness.


@UpSideDownCarl

The rubber really doesn't reward rubbish technique, but it's a lot spinnier than my old setups, if I do things right.

It's quite difficult to play with in that regard, but at least it shows me quite clearly what I want to do and what I don't wanna do.

 

[kukamonga]

@kukamonga

What would you have suggested for a beginner of about 2 years who is learning to play with heavy spin?

@NextLevel

I had to change my stroke when comparing low end professional grade non-tacky Euro rubber to low end professional grade tacky Chinese rubber.

The difference was less than I thought it'd be, but generally I have to close my blade angle more and accelerate the blade face faster. The tackiness makes swing angle more important, because it's possible to catapult the ball way off or right into the net. Tackiness seems to help in neutralizing spin if blocking technique is good enough. I think the differences among lower end equipment are not as big as among higher end equipment.

Otherwise, I suspect my level is not high enough to really notice the minute differences. Maybe I will notice more once I play with it a bit more. I'd also need to play with at least ten of each variety to better know what's rubber dependent and what's a trait of tackiness or non-tackiness.


@UpSideDownCarl

The rubber really doesn't reward rubbish technique, but it's a lot spinnier than my old setups, if I do things right.

It's quite difficult to play with in that regard, but at least it shows me quite clearly what I want to do and what I don't wanna do.

mmm tenergy 05? lol
2 years is not such a beginner anymore.

I don't know, acuda s3 would also be fine.
mark v.
sriver.

 

[Archosaurus]

I don't have the basics down yet, so I don't think those rubbers would help me. Even Tenergy is shit if you hit too flat.

 

[kukamonga]

I don't have the basics down yet, so I don't think those rubbers would help me. Even Tenergy is shit if you hit too flat.

it's the same really.
when you know how to play you can play with literally anything.
when you don't, well you need to learn first and then start worrying about equipment.
what equipment should you use to learn?
doesn't matter, it's you who needs to learn, not the racket.

 

[Archosaurus]

it's the same really.
when you know how to play you can play with literally anything.
when you don't, well you need to learn first and then start worrying about equipment.

So basically you're saying that it's okay that I got 729 FX, and you'd be right.

Take into account also that really shitty equipment will just build bad habits. You don't need amazing equipment to get good, because like you said, good technique is good technique even without the best rubber. But it helps to have something that is at least as good as 729 FX.

 

[kukamonga]

So basically you're saying that it's okay that I got 729 FX, and you'd be right.

Take into account also that really shitty equipment will just build bad habits. You don't need amazing equipment to get good, because like you said, good technique is good technique even without the best rubber. But it helps to have something that is at least as good as 729 FX.

"So basically you're saying that it's okay that I got 729 FX, and you'd be right." -> lol you are saying to yourself "I am so cool because I got this equipment which is the right equipment"

"Take into account also that really shitty equipment will just build bad habits." -> how would you know this? you are just a beginner.
you are just repeating words blindly.
I used every type of equipment there is and I would never say "this equipment builds bad habits".
there's no such thing as a bad habit.
there's only the shot that will put ball in table and shot that will not put ball in table.

you need to make your mind quick enough to think "based on this incoming spin and the racket I am using I need to hit it this way to put ball in table".
that's learning how to play and it is independent from the equipment you are using.
once you know this, you can use today 729, tomorrow t05 and the next day short pips and always play pretty decently.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

In a way what kukamonga is saying is true. But in a way it misses the point. Playing with seriously dead Tenergy that cannot grab the ball so it responds almost like antispin would not help you learn to brush and spin. And playing with those dead recreational rubbers would be even worse.

If your budget for rubbers had been $75.00 per sheet then T05fx or FX-P would have been top choices. You may have been fine with T05 or MX-P as well. But the harder sponge is not as useful for a first tensor. After 3 months with softer the harder sponge would end up been more likely to be useful.

But the reason you got the rubbers you decided on was the price.

The rubbers you got are still good enough for you to learn how to spin the ball.

Your bounce technique should work fine for you to get used to the rubber. Or my version of it where you are bouncing the ball on the table and you have something like 20 balls to hit before you go and pick them up would work also for getting to feel the touch you need to brush with that rubber:

Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[Archosaurus]

Kuka is right: but it only applies if the player already has good fundamentals and can do what is required.

And kuka, I know that shitty equipment builds bad habits, because today I had to change my habits to get better performance out of this new rubber that's still not exactly very good, but not shitty either.

If I was able to play shots with amazing placement and heavy spin immediately, then I'd be wrong, and playing with dead premade rubber would have taught me the good habits. It clearly hasn't.

Carl, I did drills like that today. Double bounce over the table, rolling the ball along the table, looping it off the edge etc. Now to just be able to do that consistently and against a fast ball.

 

[kukamonga]

from what I hear, sounds like you still need to go through the bar stage.
play for fun, play with anything, play with everything, just get used to the ball, the table, playing other people.
play silly shots, play defensive, play offensive, chop, loop, do whatever you want.
you are like trying to become a robot, that's not the way to learn.