Conspiracy theory being played out vs defensive styles. Follow where the money goes?

[ZFT]

Does anyone else get the feeling there is a concerted push (with a helpful hand from the major TT manufacturers) to try to discourage defensive styles?

As this subset does not generate as many $$$ overall to ITTF/manufacturers/retailers as equipment catered to the double inverted attacking style?

My points:

1. The classic defender blade is all wood without any composite material. The same “miracle” composite material that manufacturers justify via marketing spin that allows the doubling, tripling, quadrupling of the price to a similar but all wood composition. I.e. most extreme example: Falcima vs Lin Yun Ju Super ZLC.

2. Defender blades contain more overall material per blade by surface area while costing the consumer less - that’s usually a good deal for consumers.

3. Pips and especially classic anti is known to last a VERY LONG TIME, and plays even better the LONGER it is used.

4. It is normal for pips/anti players to use tech typically developed decades ago and can still be comfortably played to national, regional and sometimes world class level in today’s game - Feint Soft, Long II & III, P1R, CK531A1 for LP. Unlike inverted rubbers, the newest offerings are not the best, only exception I can think of is H3 and even I feel there seems to be a concerted effort to try to break its booster assisted dominance on our game.

5. It is common around any amateur circuit to see people with pips & anti 5 years+ old and still going strong. Compared to ESN that has a marked drop off after 2, 3 weeks?

6. I would like to think defensive styles would get more appreciation in this more heightened era of inclusivity, diversity and sustainability.

 

[NDH]

I think you *may* be looking into this a little too much.....

What percentage of defenders are there across the globe vs attackers?

If I'm a manufacturer, why would I make loads of equipment (which costs me money to develop and produce) for a tiny percentage of the market?

If 95% of the players were defenders, you'd no doubt see Butterfly release their "Wood ALC" - A special blend of exotic woods hand carved by Joe Se Hyuk glued together by Unicorn tears costing $600.

The market is just a representation of supply and demand.

 

[ZFT]

But that’s my point, the supply is being purposely suppressed by manufacturers by not catering at all to defenders.

How many years have modern defenders asked for a faithful re-release of Butterfly Joo Sae Hyuk when the majority of the best defenders in the world were using that blade?

And what did Butterfly do instead with Viscaria and Innerforce during this exact time?

Released replications under the names Kenta, ZJK, LGY, Harimoto, Apolonia, Ovtcharov, etc, etc as opposed to doing the exact same for any one of their sponsored or affiliated defenders using Joo blade: Filus, Kang Dong Soo, Suh Hyo Won.

Donic sponsored Wang Xi during this period was arguably the best defender in the world and he too was using the Butterfly JSH.

The demand was there.

 

[lodro]

The spectators always love a fight that gets the opponents way back from the table but if it lasts longer than 30 seconds they loose concentration and get bored. A match that involves 2 choppers might be fascinating for the initiated but becomes a pain in the arse to watch after a short while...........................and then there is another 2 hours to go 🤣

 

[Zwill]

1. The classic defender blade is all wood without any composite material. The same “miracle” composite material that manufacturers justify via marketing spin that allows the doubling, tripling, quadrupling of the price to a similar but all wood composition. I.e. most extreme example: Falcima vs Lin Yun Ju Super ZLC.

I think defenders are also more attached to their gear so once they find something they like they will use it. Sure some attackers are the same but I see more EJ attackers than defenders. So there's that aspect too.
But big makers could just charge more for defender blades to have the same profit as on composite blades, so if a Super ZLC blade is 350USD and the manufacturing cost is 250USD then charge 150USD for an all wood blade where the manufacturing cost is 50USD. I'm just pulling numbers out my ass.

2. Defender blades contain more overall material per blade by surface area while costing the consumer less - that’s usually a good deal for consumers.

Sure, I agree more surface area but usually less in thickness. And I don't even wanna argue that core wood is cheaper than outer ply wood. Probably they are. I think the harder top ply wood that is used on attacking blades is probably more expensive than the softer ones on def blades. This point is probably a non-factor.

3. Pips and especially classic anti is known to last a VERY LONG TIME, and plays even better the LONGER it is used.

Yes, and I know players who use their antis for 20+ years, they are so worn that the red anti is now black in some spots and they have a hole on the topsheet for their finger. Probably anti is the worst offender as you buy it once and use it for decades. Manufacturers have literally no appeal to make more anti and if you look at the big manufacturers maybe Yasaka released Trick Anti in the past years. Who else? Best Anti, Super Anti are older than dinosaurs, I don't even know if Donic, Stiga, Andro, Joola, Gewo blabla have an anti up for sale lol. If they do they sure make it a secret.
SP again very long lasting so not much appeal either.
LP tho... There lies some margins... Just make them very good and brake easily (Dawei wink wink) and that's the recipe for $$$.

4. It is normal for pips/anti players to use tech typically developed decades ago and can still be comfortably played to national, regional and sometimes world class level in today’s game - Feint Soft, Long II & III, P1R, CK531A1 for LP. Unlike inverted rubbers, the newest offerings are not the best, only exception I can think of is H3 and even I feel there seems to be a concerted effort to try to break its booster assisted dominance on our game.

Yeah, I guess this is in regard with what I said previously. Anti lasts forever, SP too, LP well depends.
But on the other hand Dawei, DHS, Yinhe, Saviga etc etc make so awesome LP costing 10USD that again big companies have no chance to compete. BTY will not sell you a good LP for 10USD. They can't pull out a Tenergy or Dignics on people that they make something so much better. I'd be shocked if they could even compete with Dawei for 3-4x price.

5. It is common around any amateur circuit to see people with pips & anti 5 years+ old and still going strong. Compared to ESN that has a marked drop off after 2, 3 weeks?

Again people use their antis forever. 95% of ESN rubbers shit themselves after a month. With inverted attacking rubbers where small things matter a ton so one can sell "magic". That awesome killshot you could do with a 3 day old rubber a few times in training. Maybe once in a match and it feels so good. Makes you feel like FZD was guiding your stroke. With anti and LP as you say older stuff does more magic...

6. I would like to think defensive styles would get more appreciation in this more heightened era of inclusivity, diversity and sustainability.

I would like it, I do like to watch good attackers play against good defenders. It's very entertaining too.
I love watching Koji Matsushita spin around and do crazy shit. He was like Xu Xin of his time in a way.

At least there are some specific "defender" brands like Neubauer, Sauer and Troger, Der Materialspecialist, Spinlord and the more obscure Chinese ones too.

In a way I think LP push blockers have it the best they can just buy a DHS C8 or Dawei 388D for 10USD and they already have the best. Screw the expensive companies' crap. This is enough for 99% of players to reach national league level if they actually have skills and brain.
There is a push blocker in our club he's literally a LP EJ, DHS C8 1mm blue sponge, DMS Specrte OX and with 1mm sponge, Dawei 388D1, DHS Cloud and Fog I don't even know what else he tried; but for fun and as a relaxation exercise I also try his rackets. FH he always has DMS Spinfire which I think is fantastic SP, I can use it like an inverted, but on BH the C8 is so bloody good for 10USD the expensive Spectre I think is a total waste of money.

I lost my train of thought but whatever. This forum can bear my thoughts pretty well :3

TLDR; screw most big brands, buy cheap Aliexpress/Taobao LP they are better anyway or specific defender brands, Neubauer, Sauer and Troger, Der Materialspecialist, Spinlord possibly Victas (since it's Koji Matsushita's brand)
DHS is also pretty good and priced extremely well.

 

[ZFT]

A major hot take, under previous leadership ITTF without even a sports betting influence was one of the most corrupt and greedy organising bodies, behind only FIFA under Sepp Blatter.

The money that is available resides in the hands of the very few.

The more I think about it, the more the strategy of divide and conquer makes sense when it comes to playing styles + equipment and the monetary motivations involved to keep pushing the narrative.

 

[pingpongpaddy]

YAWN...

 

[JustANoob]

“The best defense is a good offense”

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