Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

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Use the tapatalk app on a smartphone. Stores all your text if something was to happen..

Whenever I open tapatalk, it's been telling me storage is full lately. So I deleted all photo's, video's, text's, useless apps. No help. Still says storage is full when opening tapatalk
 
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Hello TTDers!

"All the best laid plans of mice and men ..." Intended to only serve sidedown to force myself to 3rd ball loop

Last night's AAR:

1) Chatted with P. last week. Didn't hit with him for some time. He usually is training on a side table with his coach, an older woman with a bad back.

SIDE NOTE: sometimes I don't get other members, they just kick the ball to her, knowing she has a back brace on. If I'm on an adjacent table and her ball comes to my table, I pick up the ball, walk over to her and hand it to her. She always thanks me. Last week, she spoke Mandarin to me, which I don't understand. She then motioned that I should kick the ball to her ... LOL at me ... I nodded, however, I refuse to do that. I will continue to hand her the ball.

Hit with P. for about 20 mins until he had to leave to meet a friend. When I first joined the club, he was training the modern PH style. A few weeks ago, I've noticed he went to SH. As we hit, I asked him about the change. I commented he had good strokes and footwork and steady RPB. He said he's starting all over and SH is easier to learn.

We hit FH-FH, then he hit FH to my BH and I punch back, then he blocked my longstroke loops. I have never seen P. play games. He asked me to serve to him, and I served my pendulum side-down as well as BH side-down. He is 50-50 on service returns.

Then he had to leave.

2) An older woman whom I've never seen before at the club, jumped on the table next. She spoke Mandarin and I spoke in my broken Mandarin that I don't speak/understand Mandarin. We conversed in English. She told me she didn't hit in a very long time. I thought she was using pips, but after checking her racket, it was a modern PH racket with dead rubber.

She had good FH strokes as well as a good punch. With the dead rubber, and her punch technique, some downspin coming at me. Was a challenge for me to punch back, ended up more of a slight BH and/or angled up punch back. She fatigued after 40 mins and I took a break.

3) Sat at a table watching the higher-level players hitting. W. was hitting with R. W. peaked at 1950, a modern PH... played him once in the past and he crushed me. Has an excellent punch AWAY FROM THE TABLE. Always marvel watching him do that as I can't do it and I'm always close to the table. He and R. were counter-looping. Always fun to watch.

M1 and M2 were sitting at the table also. I asked both of them about JP, the player Carl mentioned in another thread. Both of them said they beat JP.

Me having only 5 mins of rest, W. says he's done. Both M1 and M2 said get on the table. So, tired as I was, I got up. The 4 of them have already hit/played with each other earlier in the night.

R. is like a coach at the club and plays SH. Generally the higher level players hit with him. Steady counter-looper, tricky/spinny serves, very steady. I asked him once, he said he thought he was 1600 or so. I think he's higher. Played him 2x in past and he killed me. Generally don't see him play games, big guy with perhaps a bad back.

He started lobbing to me and i started smashing. Got some good hits, but R. is one of my worst nightmares, steady lobber who puts spin on the ball under the table and I sometimes don't pick up on it until it's too late. I had some "quick attacks" - hitting the ball right after it bounced to change tempo/rhythm.

I then started longstroke looping. After a few, R. starts to chop. Have looped steady enough in the past vs F., a woman SH chopper with longpips. R. plays inverted both sides and heavier spin coming at me. I was maybe 50/50 on my loops.

M1 asks me if i was better in my old days or better now. I replied that I was better then. Used to my old racket and rubber, I had more game, didn't lose the points that I am 50/50 now. Timing and touch not quite back yet. M1 mentioned that I probably shouldn't use a chinese rubber, unless I like to block. Mentioned that i do like to block ... LOL at me. He countered that times change, the ball changed, I'm doing too much work and i should let the rubber do the work. With a chinese rubber, I will do a lot more work. Didn't remember to ask him for his reco, partly cos I didn't want R. to wait on me. MENTAL NOTE: ask M1 next time.

R. then started serving to me. Didn't ask for him to serve pendulum sidetop, but I'm sure he recalled from our previous times that I ate his serves. I was able to 'pick' (my term, perhaps modern/correct term is "flick") some of his serves. Some I was able to "angle block" (my term) to his FH.

He then says, good, let's see how you do against them in a game. Bears mentioning again. Although games we have to keep score, not so much into seeing if i can win or not, although it would be nice to win, but i can gauge my progress or lack thereof lol Lost to R. in the past mostly 6 or 7. Lots of unforced errors.

Last night lost 3 straight mostly at 7 or 8. He took it easy on me. Thinking he has a bad back or perhaps bad knees, I didn't play my full game of make the opponent move with blocks/punches and serves. I surprised him with some shots and he of course surprised me with many serves. After the set was over, I was about to thank you for his time and he says let's continue!

So before we started the next set, I said I won't take it easy on you this time and we both chuckled. He cranked up his game a notch or 2. Started serving wicked pendulum sidedown and down. I 'angled/touched' (my terms, think it's called 'float') to his bh, sometimes the heavy downspin i didn't compensate enough for and it goes straight into the net. Surprised him that i was able to return. He mentioned that the safest place to return to is the bh for that serve. It got predictable though, one point, i touched it back to his bh and he went for a 3rd ball fh loop down the line for a winner. Next time he served it, i touched it back to his fh and missed. Another time, I was able to get it to his fh. Not easy. Surprised him with it, I mentioned I had to try to his FH as he was going to 3rd ball loop me from now into next year!

Good games, I lost them all mostly at 8... iirc, may have had 1 deuce game. I think we played 5 or 6 games more since first set.

R. was able to adjust for my fast sidedown pendulum serve, so i served some slower and to the middle of the table as well as mixing in sidetop and fast no spin down the line. The first fast nospin down the line caught him looking. He said it's a smart serve. I didn't want to tell him I didn't use it much as I didn't want to risk of hurting his back/knees. On a point, he purposely positioned himself extremely squared away at the corner of his bh, baiting my down the line serve ... i accomodated, he FH looped it and I waited for the loop ready to smash it, but mistimed it. I didn't rush my smash, i waited and still wasn't able to hit it... LOL... we both chuckled at his mind games

Overall was a little fatigued. Didn't smash nor looped well. There were points when I looped instead of smash and vice versa. We had a lot of fun pushing ourselves to better our game.

Played about 1 hr 15 mins with R.

4) Hit with a partner next that wasn't at my level. As R. was leaving and it was his net on the table, we started a game shortly.

I don't know know if my partner knows I'm intermediate or not, but I'm not the type to have no mercy on beginners. Although I was fatigued, I didn't play my game, i played mostly defensive so he can work aspects of his game. Although i believe in Iron sharpening iron, i believe if i played my game, my partner would not get much out of it.

Sometimes I wonder though if my partners in these cases think i'm belittling or condescending to them. Not my intent. Trying to help their game.

Rested 10 mins and forced myself to walk home ~2,200 steps/25 mins.

As always, thank you TTDers for reading my progress (really lack of progress LOL) reports.

Have an awesome day!

EDIT: phone in shop, so no videos from last night... for the record, ordered a Joby, a magnetic tripod octopus thingy to hold phone in place.

I think the Chit Chatters have a flavor of my TT sessions, will shorten my posts going forward, or should I just start my own thread? Will be posting videos sooner or later.
 
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Today will be film day. I can feel my form changing in a bad way lately and I need to see it.

Now for the question I have for you guys.

As some of you may know, I started up a table tennis club at my college. We have a robot, 7 tables and whatnot. I've been appointed to train these players that are low level.

My coaching philosophy in the situation im in, is that I shouldn't be teaching form. The training will be put to the test only 2-3 times this year and I think to see improvement, they should be playing their game, not improving their form. These players aren't In table tennis for the long run. I decided it would be better to do match type scenario drills to be able to make their strokes work with different kinds of balls. Playing as many different players as possible to learn what they can do to what kinds of balls. Giving them insight to options that they can do if their strategies aren't working.


So do you guys think I'm approaching this right? Or should I be teaching form.



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Now for the question I have for you guys.

Atanda Musa can be a great coach when he wants to be. But he also understand that that isn't always important.

Even though he is in his late 50s he still gives more hours of coaching than anyone I've seen. He also seems to be able to attract more students of all levels including beginners, to coaching and he does better than anyone else I've seen at keeping his students.

Why does he have such a high level of student retention? He makes the guys who are newer have FUN....sooooo much fun.

Now, with players who are this level who he knows are not very likely to take TT too seriously and are very likely to quit, he has his priorities. He wants them to walk away from his lessons thinking: "I can't wait for the next session!"

He may not teach them much. But when someone that level hits with someone Musa's level, they still learn a lot and get A LOT better fairly quickly without him doing anything but keeping the ball on the table and making them run around and work hard.

So, if the priority is getting them to enjoy playing so they want to keep at it, then you may think about having them hit with the highest level player available as much of the time as possible: in this scenario, that may be YOU!!!

It is always easier to improve when you are playing with someone better than you. When you reach a certain level you can still improve when playing with someone who is lower level. But even Waldner used to complain: "When will I get to train with someone better than me?" [emoji2]

From a theory standpoint, having your students play vs random players in match scenarios may be very useful too. But you should at least make 75% of their time be hitting with you while you make them run all over the place and work as hard as they can.

I guarantee that if you can do that and make them sweaty, out of breath and exhausted, they will get hooked and want more.

You don't have to teach them form. That is a complicated slow process and takes a while for the form to show up in their technique unless you are decently skilled at coaching. But them getting more reps because you can get more balls back than anyone at their level will be very useful.

This is just my perspective but....[emoji2] Hopefully it is useful.




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Fun is important. I promise, nobody is better at getting people to have fun than Musa. It is a key element. Musa also has this skill of making people feel they accomplished something valuable that is part of the fun.

And it is much more fun and much less frustrating to a person that level, to hit with someone enough better than them that the ball keeps coming back.

The value of random game skill practice is huge. But it is frustrating. And until someone reaches a certain level, the Musa method may be more useful.


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It's counterintuitive but the reason why people like practicing with better players is that they know how to give you balls to hit. Unfortunately, many lower rated players do not get that memo and think that the best way to practice is to hit unhittable balls...

When you watch two good players practice, they are hitting balls to the center of the forehand and backhand repeatedly. Carl is on to something when he says that it is best for Shuki to just hit with the players as much as possible and keep them rallying so they have fun. The one time I lob is when playing with lower rated players who are near beginners.
 
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Wow, thank's Carl, the longer first reply you gave, fantastic. Actually I think that is the best post I've read on this forum, an answer that applied to what I can do to help them that was extremely informative and easy to impliment.

I give my triple like of one post per year to that one.
 
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It's counterintuitive but the reason why people like practicing with better players is that they know how to give you balls to hit. Unfortunately, many lower rated players do not get that memo and think that the best way to practice is to hit unhittable balls...

When you watch two good players practice, they are hitting balls to the center of the forehand and backhand repeatedly. Carl is on to something when he says that it is best for Shuki to just hit with the players as much as possible and keep them rallying so they have fun. The one time I lob is when playing with lower rated players who are near beginners.

When I'm hitting with beginners I tend to fish a lot. Going for fun stuff like snake shots, and long distance backhand loops once I find a ball I really like. Until then I keep giving balls they can attack and have fun with. Playing my "good" shots is often regretted when I realize there's just no way they'll get it back so what's the point.
 
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These work for me, I offer you these in hopes it can help you or set you on a Path of Self-Discovery to see what works for you.

1. Sit and just breathe. Concentrate on the in-breath, concentrate on the out-breath. Zone out background noise, only 'hear/feel' your breath. Long deep breaths.

VARIATION: breathe in for a count of 4 (or 3 or 2 if you can't do it for 4 count long deep breaths) - hold for a count of 4 - exhale for a count of 4 - hold for a count of 4 - repeat = inhale 4/hold 4/exhale 4/hold 4

2. IIRC, this is called 'progressive relaxation'.

Relax your body by tensing each body part up, and then let go/relax. Feel that letting go after the tension, that's relaxation physically, mentally just let all thoughts go. Proceed to next body part and repeat throughout your body.

When you need to relax, recall that relaxation after the body part tensing. If you cannot get into relaxed state during TT, physically tense your body and then let go. In time, you shouldn't have to tense up to relax, you will be able to go straight to relax.

If you need to 'anchor' it to some act or thing ... if you touch your racket a certain way, or bounce the ball off the racket, or bounce ball off the floor, or think of a word and associate it with the relaxed state, or a routine of a few motions and/or coupled with the 'trigger word'.

Personally, before a serve, i hunched my shoulders up to tense up, then exhale and unhunch my shoulders simulataneously, bounce the ball off the floor 2x and then serve. I can't get into a relaxed state right off the bat. Still need to physically tense up. Sometimes I just breathe in/out with 2 long breaths.

3. Close your eyes, visualize/recall pleasant times or a beautiful scene... mountains, fields, waterfall, virgin snow, good beer/drink, good food, sharing intimate moment with loved one, recall childhood vacation, etc. Feel how happy you are in that visualized/recalled scene. Feel relaxed.

At some point, you don't have to close your eyes, you should be able to get into that relaxed state.

Truly hope these helps.

EDIT: Baseball players have a whole routine, generally tar the bat, loosen/tighten their batting gloves, take a few swings then approach the batter's box ... once in, dig in and it's on

Basketball players before foul shots will bounce the ball a few times, look up at the basket, etc.

You get the idea.... good luck in finding what works for you!

This post is actually verbal gold. I luv that breath-control part and didn't want it to get buried. Just wanted to get that straight.
[Emoji2]
When I was a teenager I had a vocal coach teaching me nearly the same (but without the breathholding part).
KRS-One even had a song called breath-control.
I think this breathing properly and the positive side effects is totally underrated.

Thanks for reminding, osph. Good One.
 
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I made a fast edit of a few short vids... about 4 mins long of my shadowing and looping ... not sure if this works, had to learn the video editor fast as well as upload to video hosting site.

i am da suck LOLOLOL

Props and Respect to NextLevel with his postings for giving me the courage to post vid of me.
 
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Addendum:

i was half asleep when i posted ... neglected to thank Carl for his advice/tips ... showed him the vids before editing into 1 vid.

Thank you Carl!

---------------------------

my comment:

really strange what the mind thinks the body is doing and seeing video with proof that that is not always the case. have been shadow stroking in bathroom mirror as time permits... not as much space to add in footwork. will see if i can work my strokes more via shadowing and hope to post a video sometime later with improvements.
 
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I made a fast edit of a few short vids... about 4 mins long of my shadowing and looping ... not sure if this works, had to learn the video editor fast as well as upload to video hosting site.

i am da suck LOLOLOL

Props and Respect to NextLevel with his postings for giving me the courage to post vid of me.

You can't fool me with your "1400" rating anymore... lol...:p
 
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woah, the service part of your shadow strokes. if you actually go through the ball like that, your serves must be crazy spinny!

Not sure myself (i think 1 thing and reality may be totally different), perhaps 42&backpains, Der_Echte, or Carl can comment.
 
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You can't fool me with your "1400" rating anymore... lol...:p

1400 = TRUTH!

I didn't play much tournaments, only a few of the monthlies in Westfield NJ and a few in NYC. Actually, old man memory is bad... i was 1300+, never made 1400 :(

Played in the NYC Friday night league ran by Andy Diaz back in the 80's.

I have no idea what my level is. Stroking/practicing is one thing, but games are different.
 
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