Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[42andbackpains]

Just a note on this. I played two singles matches against OldSchool and 3 doubles matches with and against, and done a some extra training drills. I have not seen him miss a serve in any of those matches or the training drills. And I definitely struggled a lot with his serves because they are definitely good.

One thing I can say for sure and from 1st hand experience for OldSchool and 42&BP: their technique is way higher than their level even if their level is higher than they let on.

Der_ swore OldSchool was 2000 and sandbagging in our doubles and OldSchool and I actually came really close to pulling out the first doubles match vs Der_ and PPH who are probably a combined 900 points higher than the OCDCarl and OSPH rating wise. And I am pathetic at doubles so don't blame me for us doing well.

But these two guys (OSPH and 42&BP) who are old men like me and learned decades ago when kids, took a 30 year break and are coming back to it as if from a past life. The result is, the technique is there. They have excellent technique. But they have things holding them back like injuries and fitness level or underperforming on the money points. And yet they still play like wily old veterans.

So don't sleep on them.

I may not have ever lost a match to 42&BP but I still think he is better than me. And when we do serve and receive drills he gives me some pointers that are as good as what I get from many coaches because he sees and knows the game.

I split matches with OSPH. And even though, my win in the second match was convincing (if I could remember the numbers they would still be besides they point), he really beat himself. In that match, all I did was keep the ball on the table and he simple did not. He gave me so many free points on empty serves where I was simply looking to set up my third ball. So it was not at all representative of the standard of play I saw from him when we were doing serve and receive drills or any drills for that matter.

So here the issue is that the technique is solid. More match simulation training for OSPH and he will jump 3-500 points in level.

For 42&BP, he actually already has that. Me and him beat a doubles pair where the higher rated player is 1900+ and the lower rated player is a hair lower level than me. It went the full distance. We won at deuce in the 5th. [SpyPhone spell check tried to turn that into DUNCE in the 5th hahahaha] but it had much more to with BackPains than with the OCDCarl.

In doubles 42&BP can do more because he has more space between points so the back and shoulder don't hamper him quite the same way. And man he is good at setting up points in doubles. Even I felt like I could play doubles with him as my teammate.


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Oh Carl, i feel all giddy and warm inside from all the compliments. I Thank You and my USATT 1421 rating thanks you...LOL

Carl you are seriously one of the most knowledgeable person on TTD. I appreciate and find your analysis very informative. And hopefully we can get together and beat D.E. and his cohorts at doubles. OSP, is a lost cause(close friend making fun of him in a public forum)...but i do see all the time and work he is putting into his game. OSP will get back the touch he lost, it took me close to 2 years to start feeling the ball again. Hopefully i can get over my injuries and come back to form. Or change to med and long pips and become one of those old guys that only push block to annoy everyone i play...LOL

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Carl,

OH MY GUOYUEHUA!

*blushing*

Props and Respect! Sincerest gratitude for your gracious compliments!! I don't want to go on and get all mushy anything, so I'll just say THANK YOU!

p.s. (for you young whippersnappers who don't know Guo Yue Hua, or TT History, look him up ;-)

EDIT: 42&backpains and I go way back to the 1980's. I stopped playing to concentrate on career, marriage and raising 3 kids. Over the years we lost contact, through our mutual friends in our table tennis crew, we hooked up again a few years ago. At first I was just playing TT to get Fit again playing one night a week ... net vid I post of me you will see the spare tire i lug with me everywhere i go. Through 42&bp's encouragement, he advised i should go to 2x a week. Did it and and off ... this past summer, i started going 3x a week. School started again for my kids, I'm not sure if i can go 3x a week, but we'll see.

Deepest gratitude to 42andbackpains and his encouragement!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

I didn't get a chance to take many videos of me... and since this past weekend, my phone is still being repaired, so i have not been able to video myself. However, I've ordered a Joby, a magnetic tripod for digital cameras and smartphones. That should help a bit to prevent me putting my phone in a locker only to have the door hinge obstruct partially the view.

I was hitting with this gentleman one night ... got to looping, he's a one-sided SH and very steady blocker. I was not concentrating on proper form/technique... concentrated on just Flowing. I let rip some loops and he blocked them all back.

I then remembered to ask him if i may video us and he said sure. Only about 45 seconds of me looping before someone called next on the table so we ended our warmup. He kicked my butt 3 straight, lost mostly at 8. I wasn't playing well. Played him one other time in past, lost 3-2, all close games, with one game at deuce.

Here's the vid

 

[NextLevel]

I do agree with the arguments being made - but: at the end of the day, rating 'guesstimates' of this kind are just that, guesses. I have seen quite a few examples when someone looks very good in warm up and casual play, but then misreads spin on serves, freezes up because of tournament pressure, or can not move and/or adapt during match. Suddenly you are looking at someone with high level FH/serve who is still 1400.

I also know of opposite examples - awkward strokes, weird serves, arms flailing etc, but what do you know - solid ~1850 rating...

So, perhaps OSP is indeed correct in explaining why he never got higher than we think he should be, because of all other issues he listed.

No, he is using a rating from the 1980s and using it to describe himself repeatedly. The other thing is that we are trying to give someone a compliment. OF course we know that he may be 1000 if we play tournaments for all we know because he can't return a sidespin serve. Everyone has a range of opponents they can beat and lose to. But you don't beat Carl as a 1400 player. You just don't.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

NL et al,

I got lucky with Carl our first match. Although I was using my old favorite blade, at the time I had a fast Adidas rubber that I couldn't get used to.

Our 2nd match, he beat me at 2 or 3. Not taking away from Carl's game, possible factors in my inconsistent play: we played our match after 2 doubles matches with Der_Echte and PingPongHolic and it was past midnight.

With that said, again, I can not say this enough, my sincerest gratitute to TTDers for their kind compliments!

I remain very truly yours in TT,

~osph

p.s. i edited out the "I'm 1400" from my sig ... but i really still think i am ... hahaha

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

"Pay it forward"

Reader's Digest version:

I just blocked most of the night to help partners work their strokes

Unabridged version:

Last night, it rained hard, not many members showed up. Was able to just hit and not forced to play games.

Hit for 2.5 hours with 3 people. 1 of them, is not quite at my level, so i just blocked and let him groove his FH and FH loop.

Next, my first time hitting with a woman who plays with modern PH racket, but mostly traditional PH player... good blocks, good smashes, not much of a looper. We varied: FH, punches, pushing, serve and return. I was able to loop a few and she blocked them all back.

Despite language barrier, we both chuckled and had fun just hitting. I motioned to her that I would serve fast no spin to her bh and later to her fh ... at first, didn't get used to the speed of the serve... later she adjusted, and 3rd ball was an easy smash which i didn't do. I think she saw me play before and i think after a few months being the new member, the club has seen me smash.

In the future, will see if i can hit with her again and train to be steadier in my looping as she is a steady blocker.

Hit with F. next, she is the woman SH chopper who is trying to develop her FH. Hit with her 2x before, 1st time she only chopped (got some nice loops in that time), 2nd time she worked her FH and i just blocked for her. She likes hitting with me. I don't get frustrated when she misses and i go pick up the ball as sometimes other members would. I put her at ease and told her don't worry.

Called it a night after 2.5 hrs. Old and tired, forced my body to walk home for more exercise LOL

REFLECTION

Some members are higher-level than me and have hit with me. I didn't want to be the member who only hits with players on the same level or higher. In that spirit, pay it forward.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

*blushing*

Deepest gratitude

Okay. As a....ummmm....moderator on this forum, I think I am going to have to put my foot down on this issue.

These are banned words on this forum. There will be no more of this kind of language here. I mean....I MEAN, what will the women and children think when they read this kind of mush.



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[OldschoolPenholder]

HAHAHAHAHAH ok, ok

[Begin Roberto Duran voice]

No mas! No mas!

[/voice]

Okay. As a....ummmm....moderator on this forum, I think I am going to have to put my foot down on this issue.

These are banned words on this forum. There will be no more of this kind of language here. I mean....I MEAN, what will the women and children think when they read this kind of mush.



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[UpSideDownCarl]

But you don't beat Carl as a 1400 player. You just don't.

Just for comedy sake: when OSPH beat me, I won the first two games easy. I think I won game 2 11-1. Hahaha.

But my game is strange as hell. I really don't play enough matches. Gotta do more of that.

How is my game so strange:

Yesterday I rotated in with 3 guys at Spin. We were playing single games and rotating. Win or lose you stay in for two games and then rotate out. One of the guys is 1800s. The other two guys are low 1500s or maybe high 1400s.

I beat the guy who is solid 1800s (short pips BH evil play) 3, 4, 2.

You ready: here is the comedy: I lost to the 1400/1500 hundred guys over and over again. Hahaha.

So I do get what pgpg is saying because I really resemble those remarks.

Now it is true, I only had 4 hours of sleep and my reset and reaction time were terrible. But I had no problem with the better player. And the weird azzed mistakes the lower level players made mishitting my shots totally killed me. LOL.

Now a rating from 1980s REALLY doesn't mean anything. But if OSPenhold keeps saying things like "Deepest Gratitude" and "Blushing" in so many posts, I may have to insist on 1300 or just sick Archosaurus on him. [emoji2]


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[OldschoolPenholder]

LOLOL ... noooo, not Archo!

I'll take the 1300 and shut up!

I'm kidding Archo!

------------------------

Some of the lower-skilled members of my club have illegal serves, some of them have heavy short sidespin serves... some of them are older than me, but they have played throughout their lives, they serve that short sidespin and i eat it or pop it up, they'll smash faster and better than me lol

Some are defensive and steady blockers/returners, with them, if i don't win the point on the first loop or smash, what usually does me in is transitioning from my FH to my BH side.

Hard to describe... not sure if anyone will understand me ... my old blade had a custom groove on the back of the handle which i shaved/filed over time. It facilitated my transitioning from one wing to the other. My new blade, i've not filed it down enough yet and probably may not be able to. But slower transitions result in lost points for me. I have come to realize i don't have the standard grip for a traditional PH... not in the web of the thumb and index finger, my grip is closer to my index finger... this helps me on my BH punches and blocks.

Perhaps this is all in my head too.

 

[Boogar]

Hey guys i am back from the military... well almost.. need to go back friday but i can leave saturday.

Bad thing is, i might miss my league match on saturday.

Good thing is i can go training today I took off the omega 5, boosted an old sheet h3 neo and going to play with that today. Let's see how it works out.

 

[Archosaurus]

Microsoft decided to essentially kill my PC with their latest update, but I'm back.

About those illegal serves:

There's a decent penholder who I play who serves really illegal topspin fast serves, basically throwing the ball into the racket. He isn't bad and he has a loop and a hit, but his rallying skills are rubbish, and I can beat him playing penhold myself, as long as I can control the serve and gain a point on my own serves.

However, I make way too many mistakes on his serve. He varies the spin and placement somewhat, but it's mostly in the wide forehand with heavy topspin.

I told him to stop serving illegally, and he did, but I'm still having more problems with those fast "one step away" topspin serves to the forehand than I probably should be having. Can't imagine what someone who can actually serve could do to my game with that weakness.


How exactly do I deal with these if the server is basically ready and waiting for a hard loop or soft block to come back? Do I do a one-step and loop it to varying placements to take control or just win outright? Are there some tricks to increase consistency receiving serves like this: shorter stroke etc. ?

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Welcome back and have fun!

Hey guys i am back from the military... well almost.. need to go back friday but i can leave saturday.

Bad thing is, i might miss my league match on saturday.

Good thing is i can go training today I took off the omega 5, boosted an old sheet h3 neo and going to play with that today. Let's see how it works out.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

How exactly do I deal with these if the server is basically ready and waiting for a hard loop or soft block to come back? Do I do a one-step and loop it to varying placements to take control or just win outright? Are there some tricks to increase consistency receiving serves like this: shorter stroke etc. ?

I'm sure the experienced TTDers and regular Chit Chatters will have advice for you better than mine.

As one who serves this type of serve, I'll tell you my weakness (keep in mind I'm old, fat and slow LOL) ... if you are the type of player who plays close to the table, this may not work. If you are a step or 2 away, it should work. Loop to server's FH with sidespin if you can... i know if anyone returns that serve flat to my FH, i generally will smash or loop if i get to it. If it's a sidespin loop to my FH, i may or may not get it. If they return to BH, i will "angle block"/punch to their BH.

So my weakness and perhaps your opponents' would be your FH sideloop to my/their FH

HTH

 

[Archosaurus]

I'm sure the experienced TTDers and regular Chit Chatters will have advice for you better than mine.

As one who serves this type of serve, I'll tell you my weakness (keep in mind I'm old, fat and slow LOL) ... if you are the type of player who plays close to the table, this may not work. If you are a step or 2 away, it should work. Loop to server's FH with sidespin if you can... i know if anyone returns that serve flat to my FH, i generally will smash or loop if i get to it. If it's a sidespin loop to my FH, i may or may not get it. If they return to BH, i will "angle block"/punch to their BH.

So my weakness and perhaps your opponents' would be your FH sideloop to my/their FH

HTH

The player I'm talking about is very weak against sidespin loops to his wide forehand, like you guessed. Must be a penholder thing. He does exactly what you say, too. If I return it into his BH, he will just punch it back hard into my elbow, although usually I can get a good stroke in because I step back.

I feel a tad rushed taking his serves close to the table. Should I step back to a more defender distance to already have some distance on him and to take the serve later? Assuming I can move in to flick/push if he serves short.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Again, others will probably chime in and have better advice.

I feel there is a small battle won by your opponent IF you are a close to the table player and forced to take a step or 2 back. Not sure how you feel about that. One of my tactics is serve fast pendulum to their BH... i get them leaning that way and i serve down the line to their FH... or vice versa... one serve sets up the other IF they make adjustments and lean one way. It takes opponent out of his comfort zone/preferred stance/placement.

Generally it's easier to step in than to step back.

For the record, I don't think it's a PH weakness... I've played PHs who had excellent footwork and/or speed and returned the wide sidespin loops to their FH.

The player I'm talking about is very weak against sidespin loops to his wide forehand, like you guessed. Must be a penholder thing. He does exactly what you say, too. If I return it into his BH, he will just punch it back hard into my elbow, although usually I can get a good stroke in because I step back.

I feel a tad rushed taking his serves close to the table. Should I step back to a more defender distance to already have some distance on him and to take the serve later? Assuming I can move in to flick/push if he serves short.

 

[ttmonster]

Its about adjusting your timing, angle of paddle and the spin you are creating to the incoming spin, there are two approaches to it. If your regular hitting zone is not working, you either take it earlier , redirect the ball with softer hands or you take it later and time it with enough spin to overcome the incoming spin . The second option will need more footwork and faster recovery ...

The player I'm talking about is very weak against sidespin loops to his wide forehand, like you guessed. Must be a penholder thing. He does exactly what you say, too. If I return it into his BH, he will just punch it back hard into my elbow, although usually I can get a good stroke in because I step back.

I feel a tad rushed taking his serves close to the table. Should I step back to a more defender distance to already have some distance on him and to take the serve later? Assuming I can move in to flick/push if he serves short.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Boss is traveling on business. Work in a 2 man dept, i'm flying solo and having a baaaaad day

Really need to smash a ball after work LOL

 

[Archosaurus]

Its about adjusting your timing, angle of paddle and the spin you are creating to the incoming spin, there are two approaches to it. If your regular hitting zone is not working, you either take it earlier , redirect the ball with softer hands or you take it later and time it with enough spin to overcome the incoming spin . The second option will need more footwork and faster recovery ...

Is taking it right off the bounce consistent? My reasoning being that you can just redirect the speed and spin.

 

[ttmonster]

You can Archo , its about traininig. If you can train the right technique and footwork to take balls of the bounce and use the incoming power to create spin its much more consistent .

Is taking it right off the bounce consistent? My reasoning being that you can just redirect the speed and spin.