Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[dingyibvs]

I actually like 09c a lot and it definitely has a higher ceiling, but 05 is just cheaper (due to longer durability), and also I don't like playing push games (I barely push these days), and 05 is just less spin sensitive than 09c in aggressive receives.

I like to be aggressive too, but I want a good push to be a big part of my repertoire. To that end, I want a good block and counter game as well as a good push should force some lower quality opening loops.

Anyhow, I tried out the TBALC setup in the club today, it does play super well. I'm impressed. I think I'll finish developing my basic skills first, then I'll have to seriously consider switching to it. It's a lot quicker in mid power strokes, which is a lot of BH shots, and still controllable in loops though I definitely need some adjustment on both sides. I really like how woody it feels for an outer composite blade as well as it's flex.

I don't think I'll ever get to the level to fully take advantage the W968's power at the high end, so maybe the TBALC can be my eventual blade. The fact that the W968 feels terrible with anything less than a perfect shot though I think ironically makes it a great teacher. It really let's me know when I'm not executing a shot to perfection, which is about 70% of the time in practice and 90% of the time in gameplay on the BH side even though I'm hitting some pretty good shots. Good is just not good enough for the W968, and I'll continue to try to use that to my advantage.

 

[blahness]

Didn't play all that well today. So did a lot more topspin practice today. I found a way of FH counterlooping close to the table after a BH loop. So basically keep the bat high, and try not to do any backswing, and brush hard after the right leg gets into position. Same as before, any dropping of the racket will make this stroke impossible.

The other thing I learnt was how to use my fingers to really increase the amount of underspin generated on the BH push. I keep forgetting to do this so I was training this a lot today. It should be part of my muscle memory. If I do it right, the ball will slow down dramatically as it approaches the end of the table due to the backspin.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

ITTF World Team Event is ongoing; so a couple of weeks ago, someone from my club suggested to the office bearers that my club should also host a similar event just for fun.

My club closed Internal Team Event was held yesterday and I participated. I am placed at the lowest rung ( understandably ). The format is round robin so I also get to play against top tier player.

Below are three videos I recorded. Feel free to comment and critique.

Video One:
This elderly gentleman is mid tier, perhaps slightly above me. I learned from my peer he was in his youth a provincial representative. He came from the era of speed glue & Sriver. You can really see his really ol'skool style pf playing: Fishing / Lobbing and slow spinny loop with placement as his main weapon. He won 2-1. Due to the number of matches to be played, all games are played best of three sets.

Game 2: This is a doubles game. I usually tend to do better in Doubles.

Game 3: This game was actually played first and my opponent was a Tier One player, several level higher than I am. Watch how he destroy me. On my personal defense, this was my first match of the day and I was not mentally prepared to face a player much better than I am. You can see my hesitation and sheepishness here. My opponent took less than five minutes to send me packing.

 

[dingyibvs]

ITTF World Team Event is ongoing; so a couple of weeks ago, someone from my club suggested to the office bearers that my club should also host a similar event just for fun.

My club closed Internal Team Event was held yesterday and I participated. I am placed at the lowest rung ( understandably ). The format is round robin so I also get to play against top tier player.

Below are three videos I recorded. Feel free to comment and critique.

Video One:
This elderly gentleman is mid tier, perhaps slightly above me. I learned from my peer he was in his youth a provincial representative. He came from the era of speed glue & Sriver. You can really see his really ol'skool style pf playing: Fishing / Lobbing and slow spinny loop with placement as his main weapon. He won 2-1. Due to the number of matches to be played, all games are played best of three sets.

Game 2: This is a doubles game. I usually tend to do better in Doubles.

Game 3: This game was actually played first and my opponent was a Tier One player, several level higher than I am. Watch how he destroy me. On my personal defense, this was my first match of the day and I was not mentally prepared to face a player much better than I am. You can see my hesitation and sheepishness here. My opponent took less than five minutes to send me packing.

o

Lol, that last guy was hiding his serves so much, I'd hesitate too.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Guys,

Wanna ask, with my tendency to FH smash for points, do you think Nittaku Goriki Kaisoku rubber would be ideal for me? I mean, this rubber product description says it is a rubber made for flat-hitter. It looks like a perfect match for me. I didn't know such a rubber exist.

 

[dingyibvs]

Didn't play all that well today. So did a lot more topspin practice today. I found a way of FH counterlooping close to the table after a BH loop. So basically keep the bat high, and try not to do any backswing, and brush hard after the right leg gets into position. Same as before, any dropping of the racket will make this stroke impossible.

The other thing I learnt was how to use my fingers to really increase the amount of underspin generated on the BH push. I keep forgetting to do this so I was training this a lot today. It should be part of my muscle memory. If I do it right, the ball will slow down dramatically as it approaches the end of the table due to the backspin.

For those quick shots, backswing and forward swing with the body seems to help as well.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

played some tournaments yesterday and today.
i performed quite worse than last week.
in singles, this weekend 2 wins against weaker players, while I lost 3 matches against players around (or slightly above my level) twice 2-3 (a player unusually attack with LP with BH, and a leftie attacker), and 1-3 against a chopper. I was 0-2 down (-2 and -4) before i started playing much better, way too late.

a lot of homework to do: especially serve receive was not good today. but i'll take a week off. I start to feel pain at my elbow (again) and to my right hand (thats new). never had that before.

 

[blahness]

For those quick shots, backswing and forward swing with the body seems to help as well.

Yes definitely the body needs to be involved for any real quality to be generated. The thing that's really difficult with this shot is the lack of time and the power that still needs to be produced. So even the body movement needs to be highly optimised. You cannot afford to rotate body 90 degs like a normal FH loop. Im finding that only about 45 deg can be allowed if you stay close table.

So basically the situation is that my BH is very strong in chiquita, opening or rallying, while my FH loop is only strong when I have the time. If I end up in a rally where the opponent switches suddenly to my FH after I loop strongly with the BH loop, I'm often in big trouble. This happens a lot of the time because opponents are afraid of engaging me in BH-BH topspin battles.

If I take a step back to do FH loops i open up the wide BH as a hole in my table coverage, and then I am forced to run like a fool to keep up the rally (and eventually lose it).

Whereas if you look at the best BH dominant pros, if you ever dare switch it to their FH and they get to it, it's answered by a vicious early timing FH counterloop for the most part. As this is always a huge threat, nobody dares to switch it down the FH line that often.

So for me in terms of topspin rallying I can already do soft FH countering/blocking and remain well in position to cover whole table for the rest of the rally (basically defend wide FH and look for BH opportunities to generate quality). But this sucks basically because it's trivial for them to switch it down the line and then just kill the weaker shot.

I think this is why the most advanced continuation is the close table FH counterloop.

I managed to get the hang of it today (first time in my life), so am excited to see where I can go with it.

 

[latej]

An experience I wanted to share... This weekend I played two team matches, one on Saturday evening, for our A team, level "divize". We won tightly, but I've made only 1 win and 3 loses and 2 of those loses were 2:3 and the win was 3:2 too. Anyway we won and it was time to celebrate. I didn't drink as a driver, but still went to bed at about 2'o clock. The next match was in the Sunday morning at 11, for our B team, level "kp1", against the current best team in "kp1". My first match again I lost 2:3 against their strongest player, my friend actually, it was long too. The second match, againt their 2nd best player, first set I was losing 2:7, and I remember this moment at 2:7 when I realized "I'm tired", I'm really f. tired. And I've kind of gave in, I don't know how to describe, I didn't resign but kind of let lose. And I won that set 11:7, it was very unique. I could win the match, but we lost anyway, and I played only those 2 matches. But this feeling of flow (I know it sounds cheap), but this was really pretty f. incredible. Made my day. I hope I can re-live it some time again.

 

[Der_Echte]

Guys,

Wanna ask, with my tendency to FH smash for points, do you think Nittaku Goriki Kaisoku rubber would be ideal for me? I mean, this rubber product description says it is a rubber made for flat-hitter. It looks like a perfect match for me. I didn't know such a rubber exist.

Gozo, honestly, this rubber will not improve your game measurably. You lose so many points from serve and serve receive that if you used a $30 USD blade and $30 SUD rubber and improved those areas you would be 5 levels higher player.

 

[Der_Echte]

ITTF World Team Event is ongoing; so a couple of weeks ago, someone from my club suggested to the office bearers that my club should also host a similar event just for fun.

My club closed Internal Team Event was held yesterday and I participated. I am placed at the lowest rung ( understandably ). The format is round robin so I also get to play against top tier player.

Below are three videos I recorded. Feel free to comment and critique.

Video One:
This elderly gentleman is mid tier, perhaps slightly above me. I learned from my peer he was in his youth a provincial representative. He came from the era of speed glue & Sriver. You can really see his really ol'skool style pf playing: Fishing / Lobbing and slow spinny loop with placement as his main weapon. He won 2-1. Due to the number of matches to be played, all games are played best of three sets.

Game 2: This is a doubles game. I usually tend to do better in Doubles.

Game 3: This game was actually played first and my opponent was a Tier One player, several level higher than I am. Watch how he destroy me. On my personal defense, this was my first match of the day and I was not mentally prepared to face a player much better than I am. You can see my hesitation and sheepishness here. My opponent took less than five minutes to send me packing.

Hi Gozo,

Your first two vids had your camera on BH side where RH players play... that makes the player's body be in front of nearly all the action, near impossible to see how the match is going. Place camera behind FH corner when RH players play, we will see everything much better.

I see you did this in match 3 vs the tier 1 player.

In that same match, where you say was your first match, but the third vid in your post... Your opponent did not have to do much except push and you killed yourself immediately.

The opponent's serve was illegal several ways.

- No vertical toss, often tossed backwards
- Ball often did not travel vertically 15 cm after leaving hand
- Server often concealed the impact
- Server did not remove free hand immediately after toss

Tough to play vs these types and likely where you are at it is useless to point out the illegal serving, no one seems to care. So you may need to develop your own arsenal of illegal serves. Why? yes it is illegal, but if the other guy can do it without penalty, now new rules have been set and you should have the chance to play under the same rules of warfare.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Hi Gozo,

Your first two vids had your camera on BH side where RH players play... that makes the player's body be in front of nearly all the action, near impossible to see how the match is going. Place camera behind FH corner when RH players play, we will see everything much better.

I see you did this in match 3 vs the tier 1 player.

In that same match, where you say was your first match, but the third vid in your post... Your opponent did not have to do much except push and you killed yourself immediately.

The opponent's serve was illegal several ways.

- No vertical toss, often tossed backwards
- Ball often did not travel vertically 15 cm after leaving hand
- Server often concealed the impact
- Server did not remove free hand immediately after toss

Tough to play vs these types and likely where you are at it is useless to point out the illegal serving, no one seems to care. So you may need to develop your own arsenal of illegal serves. Why? yes it is illegal, but if the other guy can do it without penalty, now new rules have been set and you should have the chance to play under the same rules of warfare.

Der,

First off, thank you for responding. It would appear that game play video post gain less traction compared to when I talk about rubbers. I guess people folks love to talk about their rubber more than other topic.

I did not even know the Top Tier player was doing non-compliant serves. I feel much better knowing that he beat me with unfair advantage. If I did not post my video here, I would have remained ignorant.

As for the camera angle placement, it is not by design I wanted to place there but only limited space were available to place my tripod without impeding the game-play. In fact, I was told to move my tripod a few times as other players said it was a collision hazard.

 

[Der_Echte]

You are right, sometimes it is not possible to place camera in an optimal place... or even place it at all.

 

[Der_Echte]

As for the illegal serving... when you are playing, you are concentrating on the ball coming at you and not exactly some other stuff... so it may be difficult to see illegal servers serving illegally when you are in the match facing them... unless you stop all other stuff and look only at motion and arm removal...

This makes it tough to see for yourself illegal servers... often personally I do not see them right away in a match... when I have difficulty with what should be an easy serve it makes me pay more attention.

In a sanctioned tourney where you are paying money to enter the tourney and results count... one should insist and getting the TD to assign an umpire... in USA sanctioned tourneys they MUST have a referee on site and umpires (sometimes it is only the referee hiz-self) to resolve disputes of illegal serving and be umpire for the match.

Myself, personally, if I am still in contention to advance out of group, I will stop play and go to the Tourney Director and get the referee to assign an umpire. If I am already not going to advance, then I just let it go and use it to practice vs illegal serves.

In other countries, if it is a national association sanctioned tourney, then most copy/past ITTF laws of TT and go with them. This means there is a TD, a referee, and 1 to whatever number of umpires available. Some will have just scorekeepers at table, some have umpires, differs everywhere.

Still, when you have a camera with enough good angle to see an open angle into the serve and motion, the camera will not lie.

That gent was back tossing serve like he was contending for national championship... and it was clear as day on the video.

 

[Der_Echte]

Der,

...

I did not even know the Top Tier player was doing non-compliant serves. I feel much better knowing that he beat me with unfair advantage. If I did not post my video here, I would have remained ignorant.

...

Hi Gozo,

Yes, he had an unfair advantage in that he served blatantly illegally and you did not. If it tough that you did not recognize it... it is always helpful to have knowledgeable friends handy watching to let you know this. Under ITTF laws of TT... AND many countries copy/paste versions it IS LEGAL to receive advice in between points if it DOES NOT AFFECT the flow of the game... so this means while you or opponent is picking up the ball, advice may be given. One cannot stop, pause and look to coach to say something when at the table, that is stopping play and should be a card.

In game two vs the illegal server, you showed that if you got into a rally, that you could make some plays and win points... so if he did not have that huge advantage with illegal serves, then you would have been very competitive vs him... or at least a lot more competitive.

 

[Peter93]

Guys,

Wanna ask, with my tendency to FH smash for points, do you think Nittaku Goriki Kaisoku rubber would be ideal for me? I mean, this rubber product description says it is a rubber made for flat-hitter. It looks like a perfect match for me. I didn't know such a rubber exist.

I personally don't think you need a specialty rubber to flat hit in today's game because of the larger ball. However, the newer gen tensors are turning to either more grippy or hybrid rubbers. I think the older tensors, like V > 15 Extra or Fastarc G-1, are some of your best options. V > 15 extra especially is fairly insensitive to spin and hitting though heavy opening loops is very easy to do.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Hi Gozo,

Yes, he had an unfair advantage in that he served blatantly illegally and you did not. If it tough that you did not recognize it... it is always helpful to have knowledgeable friends handy watching to let you know this. Under ITTF laws of TT... AND many countries copy/paste versions it IS LEGAL to receive advice in between points if it DOES NOT AFFECT the flow of the game... so this means while you or opponent is picking up the ball, advice may be given. One cannot stop, pause and look to coach to say something when at the table, that is stopping play and should be a card.

In game two vs the illegal server, you showed that if you got into a rally, that you could make some plays and win points... so if he did not have that huge advantage with illegal serves, then you would have been very competitive vs him... or at least a lot more competitive.

There is an often point of discussion that I have with some friendly veteran players, that is, I somehow tend to have more win in the doubles than singles.

I personally feel that is boils down to these factors:

1, In doubles, it is a lot harder to win outright with ace serves as you have only half the table to land your serves. In this way, I get better opportunity to go into rally and that is where I can turn the tables.

2. Baring my doubles partner isn't a complete noob and can keep the ball in play, I get better chance to go into FH topspin drive to harass my opponents.

3. Pips and antis bother me less in doubles than in singles. In doubles, because of alternate receiver, I have much much more time to move into better position to return stronger shot.

 

[NextLevel]

Der,

First off, thank you for responding. It would appear that game play video post gain less traction compared to when I talk about rubbers. I guess people folks love to talk about their rubber more than other topic.

I did not even know the Top Tier player was doing non-compliant serves. I feel much better knowing that he beat me with unfair advantage. If I did not post my video here, I would have remained ignorant.

As for the camera angle placement, it is not by design I wanted to place there but only limited space were available to place my tripod without impeding the game-play. In fact, I was told to move my tripod a few times as other players said it was a collision hazard.

If you don’t think his serves were illegal, are you saying that you could read them fairly easily and you could see how he was contacting the ball on the serve?

 

[jk1980]

There is an often point of discussion that I have with some friendly veteran players, that is, I somehow tend to have more win in the doubles than singles.

I personally feel that is boils down to these factors:

1, In doubles, it is a lot harder to win outright with ace serves as you have only half the table to land your serves. In this way, I get better opportunity to go into rally and that is where I can turn the tables.

2. Baring my doubles partner isn't a complete noob and can keep the ball in play, I get better chance to go into FH topspin drive to harass my opponents.

3. Pips and antis bother me less in doubles than in singles. In doubles, because of alternate receiver, I have much much more time to move into better position to return stronger shot.

I think it similar for most "beginners" that doubles feels easier to them. The points you raised are valid and i would add a few perhaps unnoticed ones regarding doubles.

- if you perform badly and give weak or attackable returns, your team partner can either even that out by being very good. This leads to you thinking that you perform better than you are, because if you receive a serve weak and the return gets smashed, it is your partners problem, not yours.

- one of the hardest things for beginners is to execute a game plan and exploit weaknesses of the opponent to get attackable balls. When you play doubles you don't need to do that, because your more secure doubles partner can actually generate opportunities for you to attack. You will be able to attack balls that you would not be able to attack, because you did not master how to prepare them yet.

regarding your videos, i wonder if you really play baracuda currently, because that is a very controlled (G-1'esque) rubber that does not have too much catapult. There are quite a few occurences where you fail to receive the ball well/short/low and not even hit the table. Perhaps the blade is making it harder to control the short game, but Baracuda should not be the culprit here.

I did not watch all of the videos until the end but to me it really seems like your level has dropped or the opponents where not playing to your strength's, because i thought i remember seeing videos from you where you had more opportunities to attack and you smashed more. To me that was way more impressive than these latest videos. Perhaps it was just the opponents not fitting your playstyle.

 

[jk1980]

If you don’t think his serves were illegal, are you saying that you could read them fairly easily and you could see how he was contacting the ball on the serve?

I think it is pretty pointless to complain about illegal serves, because even in the higher german leagues (which have an umpire for every match) they never get called out. There are even players that really learned to exactly hold the passive hand infront of the ball when they hit it on the serve and thereby blocking the line of sight for the opponent.
I also thought that i should learn some illegal serve to f*ck these people off, when they blatantly fail to properly serve, but what do you really want to do ?

The only thing i could come up with is a waldner'esque down the line serve where i basically hit the ball infront of my stomach and make it shoot out beneath my passive arm. While waldner would keep the passive arm back to not obstruct the view onto the ball, i would keep the throwing hand/arm up in front, so the ball really comes out under my arm pit basically.

The other thing i do is occasionally throw the ball backwards on backspin serves to generate more spin. This one is easy to see for better players anyways and only gives cheap points against opponents that dont watch the serve properly.