Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Lol there were no spiny one, just slow and week backhand topspin. I’m talking about really spiny, fast and powerful forehand.
There is a level to spin 😉

If is powerful forehand; I'll
mostly just block as I have not reached the level to counter-spin powerful forehand yet.

 

[SleepyMaster]

If is powerful forehand; I'll
mostly just block as I have not reached the level to counter-spin powerful forehand yet.

Okay, the question was “how you able to deal with it” not how you doing the stroke against weaker balls. But I got the answer now, thank you.

 

[NextLevel]

1. Coz' I have the FULL GOZO SET-UP! Yesterday I was messing with a club-mate's all wood blade with Tenergy 19 on it and although it is fast, it does not produce the 500 lbs / sq inch force that FULL GOZO does and is expected from my coach. One needs a 200g above set-up for the FULL GOZO experience. Yesterday I learnt that fast and power may not be used interchangeably.

2. Your praise made me shed tears of joy.

3. A while ago I asked about the hitting the wood sound. Have a listen to my above video, is this the sound of bottoming out?

No, that is not the sound of bottoming out. I honestly don't know why anyone would want to bottom out a rubber/blade combo unless they were performing a smash or a loop kill and even then, power is not everything.

When getting enamored with drills that do not simulate open play, one should always remember the infamous words of Bruce Lee in "Enter the Dragon" and Bolo in the movie, "Bloodsport": "Boards/Bricks don't hit back." Whenever your movement and timing are not challenged, it is hard to extrapolate from a drill.

 

[NextLevel]

I actually kinda like Gozo's structure because he swings compact with good elbow position, and he loads up on his right leg to power the shot, and importantly he actually moves his right leg to "find" the ball and recovers after looping. The biggest issue really is that Gozo doesn't finish the weight transfer. He pushes off nicely with his right foot, but the weight never gets transferred to the left foot. If Gozo finishes his stroke with his upper body leaning forward over his left leg, he will complete the weight transfer and more importantly unlock a very important mechanism of using the centre of gravity to control the arc of his loop, and the quality of his loop will go to the next level.

View attachment 25607

One way to find the weight transfer feeling is by lifting the right foot after the loop - this will force the weight to go completely to the left foot. A bit like the sumo exercise you shared previously.

Or alternatively, one can just not transfer much if any weight, play a more reasonable shot in line with one's athleticism close to the table and be ready for the next ball that comes back. That way one can spin many more balls and take many more opportunities to attack rather than pushing long balls back for fear of opening.

 

[blahness]

Or alternatively, one can just not transfer much if any weight, play a more reasonable shot in line with one's athleticism close to the table and be ready for the next ball that comes back. That way one can spin many more balls and take many more opportunities to attack rather than pushing long balls back for fear of opening.

Yes you can transfer less weight by going less low but there should still be weight transfer imo. Gozo is doing only half of the weight transfer (the lifting part) and he's relying on closing the angle with the arm to avoid overshooting the table. I'm simply providing a quick fix for him so that he can start pressing down on the arc with the weight of his upper body to create a much more safer yet penetrating shot. In terms of athleticism I would say that Gozo actually has the hard part done already - going down and using the legs to lift the ball. Pressing down on the left leg is comparatively much easier physically imo.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Yes you can transfer less weight by going less low but there should still be weight transfer imo. Gozo is doing only half of the weight transfer (the lifting part) and he's relying on closing the angle with the arm to avoid overshooting the table. I'm simply providing a quick fix for him so that he can start pressing down on the arc with the weight of his upper body to create a much more safer yet penetrating shot. In terms of athleticism I would say that Gozo actually has the hard part done already - going down and using the legs to lift the ball. Pressing down on the left leg is comparatively much easier physically imo.

It's difficult to imagine what you are trying to convey with words, if you can video yourself what you meant and upload here perhaps I can understand. If it is a workable solution, I'll incorporate into my routine with thanks.

 

[JeffM]

Just played tonight at the club. The strongest player from nearby town came over, and also a new colleague came to work here for 10 weeks.
The new colleague uses japanese penhold, he had some training when he was younger, so he can actually warm up for me with forehand counter hit and backhand. He stopped after 3-4 months of training so he isn't super strong, but the basics are there.
I won all my games tonight but the other player from the nearby town is closing the gap with me. I am sometimes getting too predictable with my serve returns. I am using backhand flicks most of the time against his serves, and my backhand landing % is increasing, but it is the point where he can sometimes tell that I am going to flick it that he gets the ball back, so I need to be prepared for the shot after.
I am still working on the bh opener against backspin. It is landing but there are times it isn't. But I am doing it ingame situations so I am happy about it.

It was a good session, even though I didn't play the top 3 in the usual club, I got to play with others who are good.

 

[OvrChkn]

Everyone develops a bit differently, I actually built my backhand before my forehand. Backhand serve. Backhand opener, backhand counter topspins. Most people who are properly coached develop the forehand first but as long as you are working on your games there is no single correct answer for an amateur (and to a lesser degree for pros). Forehands are usually stronger but there is no single way to introduce TT weapons, the main thing is to get opportunities to introduce your weapons. For me, serve backhand, get a push or popup that comes long or high. play and opening shot and then attack the 5th ball.

It is hard to practice serve and thirdball without serves and in some cases spinny strokes. Unless you are just putting away popups. The serves don't have to be great but in that case you have to mostly practice behind no spin serves. Developing fast and spin oriented swings makes your life easier for everything.

Finally don't attribute too much to the equipment. It does make a small difference but it has tradeoffs. Yhe more advanced stuff has a training demand, especially when you face players who play with a lot of spin. If you are range training everyday and learning to touch the ball with various degrees of relaxation to control speed and spin, you can go get it. But more realistically something less bouncy that requires more effort from you to produce spin leads to a better outcome long term as long as you learn to use good technique to produce spin because easy spin produces nonlinear equipment behavior that you might not find intuitive without training. But I suspect in a year or two with the right training, you will realize that much more of what you saw was a result of the training and not so much the equipment.

Good point. I know I started out forehand dominant when I started up in 2021, but I eventually just trended into backhand.

I'll try to get some recordings in the next couple of weeks with some progress. Making the point to work on some conditioning and drilling.

Definitely agree with you on the equipment. I'm trying my hardest not to EJ and just focus on training hahaha. We have someone in the club with the Cybershape Carbon with 1.8 Sieger PK50 both sides. Tried it out for a few weeks. My clubmates said I get some quality shots off and my serves are more spinny, but I just couldn't get used to it. My forehands felt amazing, but the rest didn't feel as right.

Sticking with my SPW, and I'm loving the Vega Europe on my Forehand, really moreso now I'm in the 4-month usage on this sheet. I'm indifferent about the Rakza 7 on my BH.

 

[NextLevel]

Good point. I know I started out forehand dominant when I started up in 2021, but I eventually just trended into backhand.

I'll try to get some recordings in the next couple of weeks with some progress. Making the point to work on some conditioning and drilling.

Definitely agree with you on the equipment. I'm trying my hardest not to EJ and just focus on training hahaha. We have someone in the club with the Cybershape Carbon with 1.8 Sieger PK50 both sides. Tried it out for a few weeks. My clubmates said I get some quality shots off and my serves are more spinny, but I just couldn't get used to it. My forehands felt amazing, but the rest didn't feel as right.

Sticking with my SPW, and I'm loving the Vega Europe on my Forehand, really moreso now I'm in the 4-month usage on this sheet. I'm indifferent about the Rakza 7 on my BH.

Rubbers in my experience have more impact on overall playing style than blade, once the blade is in the ALL+ to OFF range. But if you change, change one at a time. The thing is that with the Cybershape vs SPW, you are dealing with different outer plies (harder on Cybershape) and carbon, which pings the ball. I suspect your real issue was with the rubbers, as 50 degree sponge is very different from Vega Europe and places more consistent demands on your stroke. If you used the 50 degree sponge on SPW, the ball would hardly move.

At some point you should make the switch to carbon, the blades last longer and play better, it just won't get you as much value unless you have a consistently fast swinging topspin stroke, but since you are training, you can do it all at once, the key is to try to get more and more spin with good impact and forget about speed since the blade and rubber combination produces that. But if you want to play more physical table tennis over time, you will almost definitely need something harder on your forehand, though there are niche spin-driving styles that do fine with things as soft as Vega Europe. Carbon blades if you practice your swing variation and touch a lot are the way to go. All that said, given your current playing level, it is okay to stick with what you are currently using, but the goal is to continue to focus on spin with a fast swing action and whip mechanics.

 

[OvrChkn]

Rubbers in my experience have more impact on overall playing style than blade, once the blade is in the ALL+ to OFF range. But if you change, change one at a time. The thing is that with the Cybershape vs SPW, you are dealing with different outer plies (harder on Cybershape) and carbon, which pings the ball. I suspect your real issue was with the rubbers, as 50 degree sponge is very different from Vega Europe and places more consistent demands on your stroke. If you used the 50 degree sponge on SPW, the ball would hardly move.

At some point you should make the switch to carbon, the blades last longer and play better, it just won't get you as much value unless you have a consistently fast swinging topspin stroke, but since you are training, you can do it all at once, the key is to try to get more and more spin with good impact and forget about speed since the blade and rubber combination produces that. But if you want to play more physical table tennis over time, you will almost definitely need something harder on your forehand, though there are niche spin-driving styles that do fine with things as soft as Vega Europe. Carbon blades if you practice your swing variation and touch a lot are the way to go. All that said, given your current playing level, it is okay to stick with what you are currently using, but the goal is to continue to focus on spin with a fast swing action and whip mechanics.

I'd be interested in getting a carbon blade, although I'm not sure what to get, especially in terms of inner and outer carbon.

 

[NextLevel]

I'd be interested in getting a carbon blade, although I'm not sure what to get, especially in terms of inner and outer carbon.

Take your time, don't rush, test other's equipment, and whatever you get, commit to using it for at least 6 months, maybe 12 months with a focus on training. It is usually best to just use something that you know a good player is using, though that might make it Butterfly or slightly more expensive. But test a lot before you buy, and after you buy, practice a lot.

 

[blahness]

It's difficult to imagine what you are trying to convey with words, if you can video yourself what you meant and upload here perhaps I can understand. If it is a workable solution, I'll incorporate into my routine with thanks.

Basically if your upper body is leaning forward over a certain leg, you would be placing more weight over that foot. So the FH weight transfer is a process where you lean over the right foot on the backswing and then lean over the left foot at the end. You don't need to lean that much to get the effect. I might record something.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

I'd be interested in getting a carbon blade, although I'm not sure what to get, especially in terms of inner and outer carbon.

If you are playing more with control; then the Innerforce type where the carbon layer are nearer to the core is better suited. Harimoto & Ovtcharov blade comes to mind.

If you are the all out attacker; the type where the carbon is nearer to the surface is better suited: Viscaria being the chief example.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Basically if your upper body is leaning forward over a certain leg, you would be placing more weight over that foot. So the FH weight transfer is a process where you lean over the right foot on the backswing and then lean over the left foot at the end. You don't need to lean that much to get the effect. I might record something.

重 身 交 换 / weight transfer / body weight swapping
I understand now. Yes coach did tell me to do that but you know when the ball is coming back at one with milisecond interval, one tends to forget things. Haiyah!

I'll pay attention to this next time.

 

[JJ Ng]

重 身 交 换 / weight transfer / body weight swapping
I understand now. Yes coach did tell me to do that but you know when the ball is coming back at one with milisecond interval, one tends to forget things. Haiyah!

I'll pay attention to this next time.

You hit the ball WHILE your weight is being transferred from the back leg to the front leg. So you have to start weight transfer while the ball is still in your coach hands. Being you have to cheat and start moving right away. I hope that makes sense. Since your coach is feeding you the ball, and you know where he will be feeding you the ball and when, so you start weight transfering before the ball even arrives so when the ball is in front of you you are hitting the ball in the middle of your weight transfer process. Hence a beautiful stroke.

Now, you cheat while you practice. And then you practice 1000's and 1000's of time so during the game, you won't need to cheat anymore. You will naturally start the weight transferring process when you notice your opponent is about to hit the ball toward your forehand side.

 

[OvrChkn]

If you are playing more with control; then the Innerforce type where the carbon layer are nearer to the core is better suited. Harimoto & Ovtcharov blade comes to mind.

If you are the all out attacker; the type where the carbon is nearer to the surface is better suited: Viscaria being the chief example.

I tried out the Viscaria a while back and I played with the TB ALC, and a Donic Applegren Carbon blade. I think each one had a Tenergy 05/64 or Dignics 05/09c on them. My shots felt a bit more crisp!

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

I tried out the Viscaria a while back and I played with the TB ALC, and a Donic Applegren Carbon blade. I think each one had a Tenergy 05/64 or Dignics 05/09c on them. My shots felt a bit more crisp!

The adjective crips is usually associated with Viscaria et al. If crips feeling is what you desire, Viscaria et al is the sure-fire.

 

[blahness]

重 身 交 换 / weight transfer / body weight swapping
I understand now. Yes coach did tell me to do that but you know when the ball is coming back at one with milisecond interval, one tends to forget things. Haiyah!

I'll pay attention to this next time.

I recorded a small sample with a slightly exaggerated weight transfer movement (take note of where the upper body is leaning towards). I think you already push from the right foot well, just that you don't press down on the left foot at the end - this pressing down on the left is a mechanism to bring the ball arc down. Once you got the mechanism down you can make the movement a lot smaller.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

as

.....

I guess I would like to see you play this stroke in a match at some point. Or as part of a point routine. But all that said, you haven't been playing that long and in that context this is an impressive stroke. I just wouldn't be surprised if it took another year or more for this to show up in matches because even the playing distance requires a quality of incoming ball to get into that isnt seen in most of the matches you post. That said you do olay doubles and that might give you opportunities to play this earlier.

I only started playing TT during the Covid lock-down where I bought myself via online, two pieces of TT rebounding boards to pass time and to get some exercise. Once the lockdown was lifted, a friend of mine recommended me this current TT coach whom he mentioned was good.

So off I jolly go and signed up for private sessions with that coach. My first lesson with him was in Jan-22. All in all, I have only played proper TT for like 18 months up until now. Prior to this, I have never play TT at all, not in elementary, high school nor college. I am not even qualify to call myself a garage / basement player as well, as I never play TT at all until the Covid lockdown.

 

[Der_Echte]

For many players, SPIN is a four letter word that starts with an S.

It MUST be an obscene word, I do not see majority of players do much spin in their shots. Still, on can get to top ten percent of players without having to spell that word much, there is that.