Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

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Im not talking bout practice, im talking bout real game. In practice I can beat my coach at counter looping from forehands sometimes, both close and far from the table, and he's very strong and technical in spin department. You definitely have good spin, but that opening you repeated for several times, and your opponent just played it like in practice, its was a hard shot, but he waited for that move - because of that, he was able to execute, not because he is 2300, again just my humble opinion, that limited by my experience, and technique understanding of TT.

I will upload some of my games, there is no point for me, to fabricate some sort of an skill that I didn't develop
I will await the uploads but making the shot with that power is easily 2300, just about everyone I know who kills that loop like that has 2300 in them. He didn't even just counter it, he loopkilled it for a winner.

BTW, he won the Missouri state championships and came out 2360.

He beat Alex Legaria (2426) and Rachid Elboubou(2373). You can google those guys to see how they play and see whether a guy who isn't 2300 can beat them.

So if you are doing that, 2300 is in your future, it is just a matter of time.
 
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Hi GM, you observed correctly that in the vid he is not showing 2200+ skill much, but in tourneys, a 2200+ player facing a sub 2000 player will do the minimum amount of hard work to win. At that level, there are so many ways to control the opponent. You can see signs of it, but not full out all shots all the time. It isn't needed.
Yes - he clearly had the ability to attack all the long serves and pushes but chose to control it instead which gave away the 1st attack opportunity. Looping is harder physically than just collecting points off opponent's mistakes. But maybe he's just testing his opponent's ability to adjust for various spins and placements before deciding what to do.
 
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Everyone can do such shots in practice but I know my ball quality on that loop so if you can do that to that loop with that timing, then you are going to be 2300 too.
About 2300 player looking like 2300 level player or not....

Many times when you play a player much lower rating than you are, you tend to play it safe. You know if you want to attack, you can out attack the other player. You know if you want to be steady and rally, you can out rally the other player. So why not just keep the ball on the table and make the other person make mistakes. And ONLY if that does not work, then take out your magic serves and all the other tricks.

Therefore, I don't think a 2300 level player looking like 2150 level player while playing a 2100 level player is doing anything intentionally to be worse. It is just that's the safest and easiest way to win. At that point, making unforced error yourself will only psych yourself out of the match.

But a 2300 level player playing against a 2400 level player? There is no such concern. You need to go all out and any mistakes you make won't really get into your head anyway. Because if you don't attack at the first chance, the 2400-level player will make you look like a fool in the next shot anyway....
 
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Sorry to introduce a tangent - is it worth me making the trek to the L.A. Open this year? Since getting back into the sport I've learned that the midwest US tournament scene is pretty dead now, so I'm trying to make myself okay with just accepting that I'll have to travel farther for some competitive exposure. I heard it was a bit small post covid, but it's still a 4-star and I have fond memories of going in my younger years.
I think you should go to tournaments to have fun. If you have fond memories of going in during your younger years, then please bring a few buddies and go together!!!
 
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I will await the uploads but making the shot with that power is easily 2300, just about everyone I know who kills that loop like that has 2300 in them. He didn't even just counter it, he loopkilled it for a winner.

BTW, he won the Missouri state championships and came out 2360.

He beat Alex Legaria (2426) and Rachid Elboubou(2373). You can google those guys to see how they play and see whether a guy who isn't 2300 can beat them.

So if you are doing that, 2300 is in your future, it is just a matter of time.
If i will be able counter most of the loops like that with an ez, than maybe. But only one loop counter is not enough for 2300, again, i maybe wrong.

Anyway, I usually counter when I’m I get the predictable ball from my opponent opening, then it’s just automatic move (like in practice). Or I block a few, and then, when I slightly step back and prepared good for the next ball - I counter it.

I’m not trying to upside down ur abilities or a quality of shots, you played good. And opponent played slightly better, that gives him the win. He was giving you a lot of opportunities by pushing back long serves, and if you execute little bit more consistently from his serves - the game should be going other way.

Maybe he is 2300 or even more, from exact video it’s just didn’t looked like that to me.
But I’m agreed with Jj, sometimes when the opponent feeling or knowing that he is level above, he is not playing his best, giving more long pushes, relying on mistakes of an opponent, played more relaxed game. So maybe that’s why it looked like that 🤔

In any case you did a good job, and you are a good player! Cheers to you 💪🏼
 
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On the path to doing competitive matches to regain my play level... prolly lost 3-4 levels over the last 2+ years avoiding competitive singles, with the excuse of bad play conditions and such play not fun.

Well, it isn't fun to lose this much competitive pay level, so back to the halls with crappy play conditions, but the players and matches i need to do to get my level back.

Had a discouraging local league and trip to Almeda... but it was utterly needed.

Had a very encouraging showing today at Auburn TTC RR... lost 1-3 vs a couple 2100+ players, not having a good time reading impact and timing my shot out of crouch or follow up for most of the matches, but found a way to put it together for at least one game solid each match to at least show i can do it well enough to win... if i can only focus and perform more consistent, i can get there vs this class of opponent.

Played vs a 2000+ player who has gained a couple levels the last year or so... went down 0-2 or 1-2... came back won 10-8 in 5th. Had to make adjustments, had to figure out how to see the ball better, had to lad my first attack, had to figure out when to cut the serve return and when to topspin it... had to get my first attack in, whether spin or power.

I changed blades from my OFF to OFF+ MAU/Mandalorian to the Donic PPP OFF-. Flip flop in my sig on FH with T05FX or Bluestorm Z3 and BH fro FX-D or Aurus Soft...

I did this to promote making first attack slower, heavier spin... previous setups with medium firm sponge encourage way too much power looping... So... I needed a setup to get me back into the mentality of a slow heavy opener and take it from there. I still make a power shot opener if it makes sense and do not think about it, but this setup is gunna get me back into better decisions and first shots.

I am really not missing any power, even these soft rubbers, the blade, and a get stroke with leverage can still make it plenty fast. It is important to play with better spin and feel.

The initial signs of me getting there back to 2000+ solid are there, played good 2000 never give up for a match... but to get to 2000+ solid in this part of the country, i have to do this for entire tournaments, several in fact just to approach where I was.

Today showed a lot of promise and I am thankful to Sergey and the other two players for making me work.

I am hopeful that in 3-4 months, I will have my former play level back and it will take another 4-6 tourneys to get my old tourney level back and prove it up. This setup, my current and future new friends are gunna help me out big time.
 

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Maybe he is 2300 or even more, from exact video it’s just didn’t looked like that to me.

I think it's really obvious he's a 2300 + player.....

Different coloured shoes?
Knee band?
Cybershape blade?

This man is a baller right here! (just a little joke for any non native English speaker who doesn't get my humour!)

On a serious note, this is one of the many quirks of Table Tennis.

Watching people of a different level play a match, and trying to gauge what their level is.

From my POV, I think both players look worse than they actually are (but I'm saying that with a prior knowledge of one of the players, so it's obviously a little unfair and unrealistic for someone else to know that).

Why does NL look worse than normal?

He knows he's the underdog (despite his rating), so he's going for big shots early, as the longer the rally goes on, the less chance he has.

What this does, is force a lot of errors, and ultimately NL played below his standard here.

Playing against pips - More importantly, playing against someone who is GOOG with pips (and can still attack very well), is also a recipe for a poor game.

The shots that NL is missing look really tame.

Easy balls put in the net, little shots flying way off the table - It doesn't look high quality from either of them, and the pips absolutely play a part here.

Why does the opponent look worse than normal?

Well, firstly, you can only play to the level of your opponent.

If Timo Boll played me, in front of a crowd who knew nothing about Table Tennis, they would come away thinking that Timo was the better player, but he wasn't THAT good.

In this instance - NL is either missing the shots (because of his game plan of attacking first), or the opponent is putting away comfortable balls.

NL isn't giving him the balls to allow him to look really good - Not that I think players with his play style ever truly look good.

You can see he's skilled with the pips - The way he takes the ball very early, and does more than just put the bat in front of the ball like some pips players - This guy knows how to use pips to his advantage.

Just to round it off, he's also a very good reverse rubber attacker, which completely rules out the option of simply "keeping the ball in play" and waiting for your moment to attack.

Against defensive minded pips players, you have all the time in the world.

But against this guy, the minute you play it safe, you are on the back foot of some very good attacking strokes.

So yeah, I completely agree that he does not look like a 2300+ player in this video, and if this was all we had to judge him on, I'd find it hard to believe he was a VERY good player.

But that's just the fun of different styles with TT - It's very hard to judge the rating off a small snap shot of video.
 
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I think it's really obvious he's a 2300 + player.....

Different coloured shoes?
Knee band?
Cybershape blade?

This man is a baller right here! (just a little joke for any non native English speaker who doesn't get my humour!)

On a serious note, this is one of the many quirks of Table Tennis.

Watching people of a different level play a match, and trying to gauge what their level is.

From my POV, I think both players look worse than they actually are (but I'm saying that with a prior knowledge of one of the players, so it's obviously a little unfair and unrealistic for someone else to know that).

Why does NL look worse than normal?

He knows he's the underdog (despite his rating), so he's going for big shots early, as the longer the rally goes on, the less chance he has.

What this does, is force a lot of errors, and ultimately NL played below his standard here.

Playing against pips - More importantly, playing against someone who is GOOG with pips (and can still attack very well), is also a recipe for a poor game.

The shots that NL is missing look really tame.

Easy balls put in the net, little shots flying way off the table - It doesn't look high quality from either of them, and the pips absolutely play a part here.

Why does the opponent look worse than normal?

Well, firstly, you can only play to the level of your opponent.

If Timo Boll played me, in front of a crowd who knew nothing about Table Tennis, they would come away thinking that Timo was the better player, but he wasn't THAT good.

In this instance - NL is either missing the shots (because of his game plan of attacking first), or the opponent is putting away comfortable balls.

NL isn't giving him the balls to allow him to look really good - Not that I think players with his play style ever truly look good.

You can see he's skilled with the pips - The way he takes the ball very early, and does more than just put the bat in front of the ball like some pips players - This guy knows how to use pips to his advantage.

Just to round it off, he's also a very good reverse rubber attacker, which completely rules out the option of simply "keeping the ball in play" and waiting for your moment to attack.

Against defensive minded pips players, you have all the time in the world.

But against this guy, the minute you play it safe, you are on the back foot of some very good attacking strokes.

So yeah, I completely agree that he does not look like a 2300+ player in this video, and if this was all we had to judge him on, I'd find it hard to believe he was a VERY good player.

But that's just the fun of different styles with TT - It's very hard to judge the rating off a small snap shot of video.
You're looking at the wrong video for the 2300 player lol... the pips player is not 2300... cybershape blade nor not... I am also using the cybershape in that video BTW... I just didn't adjust to his medium pips quickly enough...
 
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I think I've decided to go. If you go too we should hit some!
Yes, find me, I am very large, loud, well dressed, and very easy to spot. Will be willing to hit with you and talk.

Help me out by making a Sign-Up Sergey Tsos thread... I promised my friend to keep joking him (like making him the National H3 expert on TTD) until he signs up.

Sergey has a LOT to offer TTD members and LURKERS... but he gets downright discouraged at all the lust over equipment and the fanboy mindless talk... it is a part of any TT forum.

I believe Sergey will clearly be a net benefit for many and reach many to help... but I have failed to convince him of that enough.
 
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You're looking at the wrong video for the 2300 player lol... the pips player is not 2300... cybershape blade nor not... I am also using the cybershape in that video BTW... I just didn't adjust to his medium pips quickly enough...
Yeah, but I talked about the first one, that you uploaded. Not the against pips player, against inverted. And that one counter loop that we talking about.

With the pipped one, there was the story that many inverted players going trough - losing to unusually wobbled, and no spin, underspin balls. And not be able to adjust in time, it was just not your day

I can lose to such player on one week in close game, and then can get win over the same guy on the next week like 8:2. This medium pips can be kinda annoying if it’s not your best day, and opponents feeling it, and if he skilled with pips, he will abusing it to the gills
 
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Yeah, but I talked about the first one, that you uploaded. Not the against pips player, against inverted. And that one counter loop that we talking about.

With the pipped one, there was the story that many inverted players going trough - losing to unusually wobbled, and no spin, underspin balls. And not be able to adjust in time, it was just not your day

I can lose to such player on one week in close game, and then can get win over the same guy on the next week like 8:2. This medium pips can be kinda annoying if it’s not your best day, and opponents feeling it, and if he skilled with pips, he will abusing it to the gills
My response was to NDH, I know you know who was who.
 

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You're looking at the wrong video for the 2300 player lol... the pips player is not 2300... cybershape blade nor not... I am also using the cybershape in that video BTW... I just didn't adjust to his medium pips quickly enough...
You’d think I’d been around long enough to read things properly wouldn’t you…..

Clearly not! 😂
 
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Let us use some videos to settle the debate. Below are based on USATT ratings:

This is what 2000 level players play like:


This is what 2200 to 2350 level players play like (two videos):



This is what 2400 to 2500 level players play like:

Ratings are a result of performance not a result of looking a certain way. But if you want to continue down this path, feel free to, though it should preferably be the context of your personal table tennis. The point of this thread even if inconsistently followed is to discuss your own table tennis or things that you experienced that affect it

There really is no debate, nothing anyone has said here is uninformed opinion. I have beaten 2300 players before on my good days and arguably their bad days. I have a reasonable base from which to say that someone I am playing can hit that level even if I am completely wrong in my conclusion.
 
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I totally second NextLevel. The first vid is showing kids at nice national youth level here in France, but when they play in senior leagues, they'd not play higher than Regionale 3 or 2 at best, it's tier 8 or 7, not higher. 1400 to 1500 FFTT rating compared to near 3600 for Lim Jonghoon, ranked number 1 FFTT league player this season https://www.fftt.com/site/personnes/by-number?number_id=397425

The adults are at a senior national 2, 1 at best level, tier 4 or 3, but since the Lebrun Bros played in Pro B this season the gap is damn enormous now between nationale 1 and Pro B. Until 2300 USATT you have to substract at least 500 points to get the FFTT rating, second stronger TT Association in Europe after Germany's TTBL.

A 1800 player is most of the time playing in Régionale 2 or 1, tier 7 or 6. Then when you climb up to 2400 USATT the things are diffrent, bear in mind it's an elo based rating system, in chess there's actually an ENORMOUS gap between 2300 FIDE masters and 2500 to 2600 GMs, actually the same gap as between 1800 and 2300 players.
 
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I totally second NextLevel. The first vid is showing kids at nice national youth level here in France, but when they play in senior leagues, they'd not play higher than Regionale 3 or 2 at best, it's tier 8 or 7, not higher. 1400 to 1500 FFTT rating compared to near 3600 for Lim Jonghoon, ranked number 1 FFTT league player this season https://www.fftt.com/site/personnes/by-number?number_id=397425

The adults are at a senior national 2, 1 at best level, tier 4 or 3, but since the Lebrun Bros played in Pro B this season the gap is damn enormous now between nationale 1 and Pro B. Until 2300 USATT you have to substract at least 500 points to get the FFTT rating, second stronger TT Association in Europe after Germany's TTBL.

A 1800 player is most of the time playing in Régionale 2 or 1, tier 7 or 6. Then when you climb up to 2400 USATT the things are diffrent, bear in mind it's an elo based rating system, in chess there's actually an ENORMOUS gap between 2300 FIDE masters and 2500 to 2600 GMs, actually the same gap as between 1800 and 2300 players.
With the video's, I am just hoping to help people realize when talking about USATT rating, how it translates to other playing levels in, say, France or Ukraine.

Yes, US (and Canada) are not exactly the hot bed of table tennis talents.

I hope to reach USATT 2000 level one day. I have been stuck at 1700 for a long long time already!
 
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I totally second NextLevel. The first vid is showing kids at nice national youth level here in France, but when they play in senior leagues, they'd not play higher than Regionale 3 or 2 at best, it's tier 8 or 7, not higher. 1400 to 1500 FFTT rating compared to near 3600 for Lim Jonghoon, ranked number 1 FFTT league player this season https://www.fftt.com/site/personnes/by-number?number_id=397425

The adults are at a senior national 2, 1 at best level, tier 4 or 3, but since the Lebrun Bros played in Pro B this season the gap is damn enormous now between nationale 1 and Pro B. Until 2300 USATT you have to substract at least 500 points to get the FFTT rating, second stronger TT Association in Europe after Germany's TTBL.

A 1800 player is most of the time playing in Régionale 2 or 1, tier 7 or 6. Then when you climb up to 2400 USATT the things are diffrent, bear in mind it's an elo based rating system, in chess there's actually an ENORMOUS gap between 2300 FIDE masters and 2500 to 2600 GMs, actually the same gap as between 1800 and 2300 players.
My coach has 2300+ elo at chess.com, but when he played against a GM, live match in our club (there is one dude that is master of sport in TT and GM in chess) - it’s was just like cat playing with a mouse - no chance at all 🙂
So yeah, there is a much of difference between 2300+ and 2500-2600
 
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