Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[IB66]

I guess the wrist and a fingers is more important in that serve, as in many serves, but I maybe wrong - I’m do not perform it just trying out for few times

Wrist and fingers for spin, using body and weight transfer for power / speed. This can be incorporated for all serve actions and should also help with recovery to ready position, which should be part of the serve.
This is what I have been working on, the recovery to ready position quickly. I tend to ball watch, rather than ball watch & MOVE at the same time!!!
I have found that with my hook serve I can struggle to keep it half long, which is bad news!! An easy feed for an easy attack. Especially if the opponent is reading the spin well.
My reverse pendulum serve is better for half long serves, as far as consistency is concerned.

 

[blahness]

Wrist and fingers for spin, using body and weight transfer for power / speed. This can be incorporated for all serve actions and should also help with recovery to ready position, which should be part of the serve.
This is what I have been working on, the recovery to ready position quickly. I tend to ball watch, rather than ball watch & MOVE at the same time!!!
I have found that with my hook serve I can struggle to keep it half long, which is bad news!! An easy feed for an easy attack. Especially if the opponent is reading the spin well.
My reverse pendulum serve is better for half long serves, as far as consistency is concerned.

I literally cannot serve the pure topspin variant short it is always half long or long even if the 2nd bounce is really close to the net... the spin just carries it long unfortunately. If people read it correctly they will attack it for sure.

Sidetopspin is easier to keep short if it's more sidespin than topspin.

But I guess if ppl read it as a short underspin serve you're almost certain to win the point outright lol.

With underspin it is way easier to keep it short.

 

[Jslick89]

Competed in a tournament yesterday for the first time in 6 months. Five events. Ended up advancing in 3 of my groups. In total, I played 18 matches from 930am-8pm. I estimate about 6 hours on the table (i only recall a handful of 15 minute breaks here and there).

I had two come from behind victories being down 0-2. One loss from being up 2-0. I almost fought back from being down 0-2 in two of my semi final events, only to lose 11-9 in the 5th game. No upset losses. Lots of upset victories. total record for the day was 13-5. Beat one of my club mates who has beaten me the last 5 times we played (he's got pips/smooth set up and can really change the pace with his twiddles)

I really think i would have won my last final if it wasn't my 18th match of the day but my opponent played great.

The great @der_echt coached me for a couple matches and that was really helpful. The backhand technique we worked on a couple weeks ago was already paying dividends

Lots of lessons. My regular coach finally got to see me play a couple matches too and he said we have a lot to work on so i'm excited about that.

 

[NextLevel]

Competed in a tournament yesterday for the first time in 6 months. Five events. Ended up advancing in 3 of my groups. In total, I played 18 matches from 930am-8pm. I estimate about 6 hours on the table (i only recall a handful of 15 minute breaks here and there).

I had two come from behind victories being down 0-2. One loss from being up 2-0. I almost fought back from being down 0-2 in two of my semi final events, only to lose 11-9 in the 5th game. No upset losses. Lots of upset victories. total record for the day was 13-5. Beat one of my club mates who has beaten me the last 5 times we played (he's got pips/smooth set up and can really change the pace with his twiddles)

I really think i would have won my last final if it wasn't my 18th match of the day but my opponent played great.

The great @der_echt coached me for a couple matches and that was really helpful. The backhand technique we worked on a couple weeks ago was already paying dividends

Lots of lessons. My regular coach finally got to see me play a couple matches too and he said we have a lot to work on so i'm excited about that.

Your regular coach watching you is huge. I find it a form of coaching negligence for a coach not to watch his student in tournament matches (either live or video) and figure out drills/exercises to compensate.

 

[Jslick89]

Your regular coach watching you is huge. I find it a form of coaching negligence for a coach not to watch his student in tournament matches (either live or video) and figure out drills/exercises to compensate.

Yeah! One of his major notes was that my serves still are not spinny enough. I am going to start practicing bed serves like you were talking about. he thinks if my serves get spinnier my rating is going to go up a lot. I also need a lot of practice of preparing for my third ball attack. and of course serve return..so many things.... lol

 

[SleepyMaster]

I also need a lot of practice of preparing for my third ball attack. and of course serve return..so many things.... lol

As all we need to do 😁
Only first ten years in TT is hard (c)

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Competed in a tournament yesterday for the first time in 6 months. Five events. Ended up advancing in 3 of my groups. In total, I played 18 matches from 930am-8pm. I estimate about 6 hours on the table (i only recall a handful of 15 minute breaks here and there).

I had two come from behind victories being down 0-2. One loss from being up 2-0. I almost fought back from being down 0-2 in two of my semi final events, only to lose 11-9 in the 5th game. No upset losses. Lots of upset victories. total record for the day was 13-5. Beat one of my club mates who has beaten me the last 5 times we played (he's got pips/smooth set up and can really change the pace with his twiddles)

I really think i would have won my last final if it wasn't my 18th match of the day but my opponent played great.

The great @der_echt coached me for a couple matches and that was really helpful. The backhand technique we worked on a couple weeks ago was already paying dividends

Lots of lessons. My regular coach finally got to see me play a couple matches too and he said we have a lot to work on so i'm excited about that.

18... wow

I don't think I have witnessed so many ever before.
In ITTF events, world junior champs, I think there was a kid I know who did 13 or so, and he was dead (no lunch and by late afternoon, he was zero steam against harimoto - actually few minutes before the match he was light headed. I think he did the best in that tournament against him)
national events, I think 14 or so in a day.

Mean while, I'm aching from 3 hours of table tennis yesterday (1st match against illlegal pimple player that tired me a lot) and there after was all "fun" doubles.

Taking my hats off to you with 6 hours of matches.
I can (or used to) do 6+ hours of training a day, but matches - impossible.

 

[Der_Echte]

Yeah! One of his major notes was that my serves still are not spinny enough. I am going to start practicing bed serves like you were talking about. he thinks if my serves get spinnier my rating is going to go up a lot. I also need a lot of practice of preparing for my third ball attack. and of course serve return..so many things.... lol

One of the things I stressed is one should have at LEAST a medium underspin serve... so that when they serve light spin it is a true variation that can get errors or good chances... with only a light spin serve, no variation and opponets adjust... then there is no answer.

Having spin variation will carry a player all the way to the end.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

One of the things I stressed is one should have at LEAST a medium underspin serve... so that when they serve light spin it is a true variation that can get errors or good chances... with only a light spin serve, no variation and opponets adjust... then there is no answer.

Having spin variation will carry a player all the way to the end.

other than table tennis, I also enjoy cricket (not sure how many people knows it).
So there is bowlers that ball "spin".
and the saying goes - its not the amount of spin you generate, but it is the "just enough" spin to trick the opponent.

The same logic applies in table tennis in my opinion.
It is not to out spin your opponent, but to trick them with the type of spin, the strength of spin, the power of the ball, the placement of the ball, etc.

 

[Der_Echte]

Your regular coach watching you is huge. I find it a form of coaching negligence for a coach not to watch his student in tournament matches (either live or video) and figure out drills/exercises to compensate.

I am not as harsh towards J-Slick's regular coach... he is married with a family too, so I get it. it is a matter of how much he wants to be available...

Just like J-Slick's regular coach, my events also started in afternoon, but I came out on J-Slick's request, after I asked if his coach would be unavailable.

I showed up at 9Am and was on my feet or butt for hours and hours before I played matches... that doesn't help at all for match performance.

Since J-Slick's coach was competing as well, I can understand him wanting to be prepared to win in competition.

 

[NextLevel]

I literally cannot serve the pure topspin variant short it is always half long or long even if the 2nd bounce is really close to the net... the spin just carries it long unfortunately. If people read it correctly they will attack it for sure.

Sidetopspin is easier to keep short if it's more sidespin than topspin.

But I guess if ppl read it as a short underspin serve you're almost certain to win the point outright lol.

With underspin it is way easier to keep it short.

It is virtually impossible to serve any pure topspin serve short, unless the topspin is extremely light or you are playing along the very longest diagonal, as topspin kicks the ball forward and upward. You can make the serve look short by making the first bounce closer to the net, but if the opponent reads it, they will know the serve is long. And if they don't read it, you will get lots of third ball opportunities but a smart player, or a dumb one like me who is informed, will eventually learn to wait and will only push if the ball stays clearly short. Though against a deep ball, the push has to be very calibrated or it will end up in the net.

IMHO, better to see how you can make the ball kick in both the vertical and horizontal planes after the first bounce on the opponent's side since those variations are what cause the most errors either with height /racket edges and forward motion/speed after the bounce. When I used to practice, I used to try to see how deep I could get the ball to bounce as that is a measure of the spin in the topspin, the deeper the ball goes after that bounce on the opponents side or the higher of the first bounce to second bounce didn't reveal the spin, that is a good measure.

 

[Der_Echte]

other than table tennis, I also enjoy cricket (not sure how many people knows it).
So there is bowlers that ball "spin".
and the saying goes - its not the amount of spin you generate, but it is the "just enough" spin to trick the opponent.

The same logic applies in table tennis in my opinion.
It is not to out spin your opponent, but to trick them with the type of spin, the strength of spin, the power of the ball, the placement of the ball, etc.

Truth.

I always advocate that it is VARIATION that keeps opponents off balance, spin variation one of them... and if serves are basically same spin, there is no variation for spin and server loses advantage unless there is other variation..

 

[NextLevel]

I am not as harsh towards J-Slick's regular coach... he is married with a family too, so I get it. it is a matter of how much he wants to be available...

Just like J-Slick's regular coach, my events also started in afternoon, but I came out on J-Slick's request, after I asked if his coach would be unavailable.

I showed up at 9Am and was on my feet or butt for hours and hours before I played matches... that doesn't help at all for match performance.

Since J-Slick's coach was competing as well, I can understand him wanting to be prepared to win in competition.

Don't really care. In life everything has a reason, doesnt mean it is good or bad to point it out. My main point is that he could easily have watched Jslick record a match and use that as input. Too many coaches get away with stuff like this, which is unfortunate when you have a student putting in a lot of hours.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Don't really care. In life everything has a reason, doesnt mean it is good or bad to point it out. My main point is that he could easily have watched Jslick record a match and use that as input. Too many coaches get away with stuff like this, which is unfortunate when you have a student putting in a lot of hours.

how much hours is this coach getting a week from this player?

I always find it very complicated for coaches to "watch/coach" paid players during matches, and like what happens if two are playing in the same time.... does an auction start?

If the coach is also playing, that adds even more complications.

Some coaches I know get paid to "watch", they get paid for the day to come out.
Some coaches I know, do it for free, for regular "long term" students.
I think this part is very complicated for amateurs, where one coach would have more than one player playing (some times there is 5 or 10).

 

[Jslick89]

One of the things I stressed is one should have at LEAST a medium underspin serve... so that when they serve light spin it is a true variation that can get errors or good chances... with only a light spin serve, no variation and opponets adjust... then there is no answer.

Having spin variation will carry a player all the way to the end.

I defintiely need to work on that “medium” serve that has a good variation in spin but also lots of spin when needed. Still need to work on the placement of the half longs too.

 

[Der_Echte]

I defintiely need to work on that “medium” serve that has a good variation in spin but also lots of spin when needed. Still need to work on the placement of the half longs too.

Yes, getting the amount of spin you choose and a good half-long location can do a lot for a server to get an advantage.

There is technique learning, concept learning, then a lot of practice.

 

[Der_Echte]

how much hours is this coach getting a week from this player?

I always find it very complicated for coaches to "watch/coach" paid players during matches, and like what happens if two are playing in the same time.... does an auction start?

If the coach is also playing, that adds even more complications.

Some coaches I know get paid to "watch", they get paid for the day to come out.
Some coaches I know, do it for free, for regular "long term" students.
I think this part is very complicated for amateurs, where one coach would have more than one player playing (some times there is 5 or 10).

LDM7 hired his technique coach to be present for the entire tourney just like you described. This coach is long retired from competitive play. There are no availability conflicts with this situation.

 

[NextLevel]

how much hours is this coach getting a week from this player?

I always find it very complicated for coaches to "watch/coach" paid players during matches, and like what happens if two are playing in the same time.... does an auction start?

If the coach is also playing, that adds even more complications.

Some coaches I know get paid to "watch", they get paid for the day to come out.
Some coaches I know, do it for free, for regular "long term" students.
I think this part is very complicated for amateurs, where one coach would have more than one player playing (some times there is 5 or 10).

It is more about the player development and less about coaching in real time. For what I am discussing even watching video for 10 minutes after a match is fine or if the student can edit even better. Some students pay for this for sure and maybe more coaches should offer and charge for it. But developing a player is hard, giving the student the impression that matches are something you just go into without any connection to your training is a popular misconception that is aided by not developing the player other than being some kind of practice partner. Coach should be able to charge for sure if he thinks reviewing matches will add value to the player and then let the player decide.

 

[Jslick89]

18... wow

I don't think I have witnessed so many ever before.
In ITTF events, world junior champs, I think there was a kid I know who did 13 or so, and he was dead (no lunch and by late afternoon, he was zero steam against harimoto - actually few minutes before the match he was light headed. I think he did the best in that tournament against him)
national events, I think 14 or so in a day.

Mean while, I'm aching from 3 hours of table tennis yesterday (1st match against illlegal pimple player that tired me a lot) and there after was all "fun" doubles.

Taking my hats off to you with 6 hours of matches.
I can (or used to) do 6+ hours of training a day, but matches - impossible.

I was surprised my back actually felt pretty good all day (I had a serious back injury in 2018 from falling 17 feet…twice…while climbing up the bouldering section at my gym). It was my legs that were really toast by the end of the day.

But if you were curious of how I did this:

- lots of agility and fitness train up to the tournament, but tapered off a week before (taper = strictly table tennis for the week before)

- the night before I did 40 minutes of serve practice only

-slept 10 hours the night before the tournament and 7 hours the previous day

-I woke up at 6am, and turned on my thermotex heating pad and layed on it and went back to sleep for another hour. This is how I woke up with my back muscles already loose

-breakfast was coffee, 8pm orange juice, 2 fried eggs, toast, avocado and ham steak, 8 oz water

-15 minutes of isomeric core exercises before starting my playing warm up at the tournament

-gentle 30 minute warm up…not very intense at all

-I made sure to move slowly every time I retrieved the ball

- quick break every six points as allowed by tournament

-throughout the day I drank 80oz water

-every 2.5 hours I drank 8oz Of harmless harvest coconut water (I only buy this stuff for tournaments because it’s too expensive)

-I sat or laid down and stretched whenever I wasn’t playing

-After 2 hours I ate half a cup of fresh cut pineapple

-after three hours I had some cheese and crackers

-at 130pm I ate half a lamb euro and half a scoop of pre-workout (has caffeine)

-around 4pm I had my other half cup of pineapple and my other half scoop of pre workout

I think that about sums it up. Today I actually feel pretty good. I could play today if I wanted but I’m going to rest today and tomorrow

 

[Der_Echte]

From the portions i could watch, @Jslick89 did exceedingly well.

I saw him come back from 0-2 in games to equalize as he began to play effectively and believe in what can work.

It was unfortunate he lost at the end 11-9 that match in the 5th, he got a little too anxious to attack and missed a couple.

At the end of the day, in a final, he played right into the hands of his opponent and got into medium fast hitting immediately... and opponent did that better than J-Slick... so he was at a big disadvantage in those rallies. J-Slick could hand for 6-10 hits, but when opponent stayed patient, he won.

J-Slick hung in there and fought, so opponent got a little impatient. J-Slick was able to get it to the 5th this way and I had to leave (he had his regular coach present) and could not see that outcome.

Still, advancing in all those singles events and going as far as he did in a field that now in 2023 from Sac and Bay Area playing so well at every level, it was a big accomplishment.