Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Gozo Aruna]

FH predominant, but want to increasingly use my BH. I want to mainly create opportunities with my BH and finish opportunity points to my BH.

Sounds like you wanna move to the Viscaria crowd. Then go ahead. You know what you want, then Just Do It(tm).

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Come on NL, FH pivot is uber cool. IG / Tiktok worthy moments all the time!

@NextLevel ,

Watch this reel again but focus on the young man in orange T-shirt. I accidentally caught him doing a wonderful and marvelous FH pivot loop kill.

Dang Dawg! This is da SH!T I am talkin'bout. I wanna piece of dat SH!T too. Dang! I am glad I caught this on my reel.

BTW, just some trivia, I am informed that young man is 19 y/o and he was part of the Youth National Squad not too long ago but he resigned to focus on his undergraduate course now.

 

[NextLevel]

I played with the Vis for quite a while today, it did feel exactly how I thought it would, but due to the switch I just didn't have a lot of confidence in my shot. The shots weren't even that off, it just felt different. I played a practice match, and I did similar as before, though I think with my familiar setup I would've beaten him fairly easily as I've gotten better since then. Later on in doubles I switched back to my old setup to compare, and I was doing way better than before due to my BH improvement.

Now I'm in a bit of quandary, should I bite the bullet and switch to the Viscaria now knowing the BH of the W968 will never get to Viscaria's level, or should I minimize changes and stick to my old setup with just H3BS instead of D09c on the FH side? I haven't given the W968 with boosted D09c a proper try yet since last time I tried it was way too soon after boosting, so I think I'm gonna try the W968 + H3BS + boosted D09c setup tomorrow. One last possibility is using an H3 40 on the BH side. The H3 37 felt too mushy, while the H3 40 BS when I tried it felt like a grippier D05. I have a sheet of H3 OS 40 on my hand, so I might give that a try and see how it plays on the BH side at some point of time.

Put the H3 on backhand as well and use whatever blade you prefer. My opinion is that while there is some feeling of vibration that comes with innerforce blades, tacky rubbers do thr same.thing and that once you have enough feeling in the blade ( and you can measure frequency to confirm the difference), you can play reasonably with either. Blades always have tradeoffs, but my take is that I can use anything below 1500 HZ (it used to be 1400Hz but I expanded my range with tacky rubbers), the rubbers are more important. I might be able to get it to 1600Hz with Hurricane - we will see.

 

[NextLevel]

View attachment 29779
@NextLevel ,

Watch this reel again but focus on the young man in orange T-shirt. I accidentally caught him doing a wonderful and marvelous FH pivot loop kill.

Dang Dawg! This is da SH!T I am talkin'bout. I wanna piece of dat SH!T too. Dang! I am glad I caught this on my reel.

BTW, just some trivia, I am informed that young man is 19 y/o and he was part of the Youth National Squad not too long ago but he resigned to focus on his undergraduate course now.

Nice catch. That ball was so wide the young man wanted to pivot into your table so he could play thr ball round the net. That is why he is less than half my age.

NL - the one who brings balance to the forehand and backhand sides of the force.

 

[dingyibvs]

Sounds like you wanna move to the Viscaria crowd. Then go ahead. You know what you want, then Just Do It(tm).

Switching blades is such a painful process though. I feel no confidence when looping with Viscaria right now, the feel is just completely different and I can't predict when it'll drop into the net and when it'll blast past the table when I start using some power. Plus, I did invest ~$500 into the W968 lol, so I owe it to at least try the H3BS + D09c combo.

 

[Emin]

I feel no confidence when looping with Viscaria right now, the feel is just completely different and I can't predict when it'll drop into the net and when it'll blast past the table when I start using some power.

Thats the big trade-off with Viscaria on Forehand, when you are used to the dwell time, hold and feeling of the inner blade.
Unless you are willing to train forehand loops for the next 6 months non-stop, I dont think you will gain similar confidence.

There are so many more adjustments that one needs to make with the outer blades when looping on forehand.
Racket Angle, Hitting point, Upward/Forward movement changes etc.

While the backhand is good, it just doesnt make up for the difficulties you get on the forehand.

 

[NextLevel]

Switching blades is such a painful process though. I feel no confidence when looping with Viscaria right now, the feel is just completely different and I can't predict when it'll drop into the net and when it'll blast past the table when I start using some power. Plus, I did invest ~$500 into the W968 lol, so I owe it to at least try the H3BS + D09c combo.

Feeling is important but it isn't everything and it is adaptable. The H3BS might be too fast for your Viscaria forehand. Maybe you need something harder or stickier? Or just not boosted?

Don't let money be the factor here. Cheaper blades often play better than we realize. I have probably wasted over $10k on blades (given away more than I can remember) and never once did I feel that price determined playing quality (it often did determine speed, composites and build quality but not playing quality).

Finally, adding power with a faster blade, you need to practice changing your contact point on the ball until it holds and works.

 

[Emin]

Feeling is important but it isn't everything and it is adaptable. The H3BS might be too fast for your Viscaria forehand. Maybe you need something harder or stickier? Or just not boosted?

Don't let money be the factor here. Cheaper blades often play better than we realize. I have probably wasted over $10k on blades (given away more than I can remember) and never once did I feel that price determined playing quality (it often did determine speed, composites and build quality but not playing quality).

Finally, adding power with a faster blade, you need to practice changing your contact point on the ball until it holds and works.

Its not really speed thats the problem, more the fact that their is less dwell time and hold on the ball.
The ball is spit out too quickly.

Unlike the flexible W968 or any other similar inner blade, which holds the ball significantly longer on the racket.
Its hard to understand, unless you have experienced it first hand and could compare it directly.
When you are used to looping with the inner blade, the change can be very disruptive.

 

[NextLevel]

I played an unsanctioned event today. The tournament is usually bigger and fuller but it was still eventful. I played the U2000 and the Open. The U2000 was on an honors system but I lost to guy whose official rating is 2200 (they don't check so oh well ..) In the Open, I lost to a guy who used to be over 2300 but stopped training. The match actually went 5 which shows you he has lost a lot of level.

One of the insane things I am trying to do is change my looping technique on the forehand to make it more straight topspin and direct like my backhand. I have tried such experiments in the past but have given up in frustration rather than committing to them for various reasons. But my coach before he left for break pointed out I need to he able to play down the line more directly and felt that my hooking the ball limited my options so I am going to try to use my backhand racket angles to create a mental model to fix this. It actually worked better than I expected especially doing it during a tournament.

If you live long enough you get to see everything lol. I played a guy who hand switched and coutnerlooped balls on two consecutive points on me for winners in the middle of long rallies. Thankfully I still won the match lol.

I tested the new Joola Tronix ZGR and I am not sure I know how to hit the ball without sticky rubber anymore. But I will continue to work on my forehand technique change and the implications for other things in my game, especially footwork and countering.

 

[NextLevel]

Its not really speed thats the problem, more the fact that their is less dwell time and hold on the ball.
The ball is spit out too quickly.

Unlike the flexible W968 or any other similar inner blade, which holds the ball significantly longer on the racket.
Its hard to understand, unless you have experienced it first hand and could compare it directly.
When you are used to looping with the inner blade, the change can be very disruptive.

I know exactly what the problem is, I am talking about the things I have tried to make the feeling more similar. I am currently using a blade with innerforce design (CCF), but I sometimes switch to blades with outer force design ( I have a Mizutani Jun SZLC, Boll T5000 and even a Garaydia T5000 amongst other very fast blades). In this particular case, it might not even be the outer carbon that is causing the problem, it might also be that the feeling of limba makes more sense to dingyibvs than the feeling of Koto. In the end though, these things can all be adjusted to somewhat by just repeatedly adapting the shot to the equipment as long as the blade isn't too far outside the frequency of your feeling. Otherwise we would see some huge difference between pros using outerforce and innerforce blades.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

after months of bad results, finally i had a decent tournament day. in a veteran 50+ tournament

I gave more rest this week to my arm and trained only twice in shortened sessions on Thursday and Friday. Friday i had very good feeling with the ball, one of my best training sessions ever, with a very high % of quality BH opening.

in phase 1, i was in a group of 4 of which i was the seeded player thanks to a good result last year.

the first match of the day was a tough one, the kind of match i lost a lot recently. The player was far from exceptional he couldn't put much spin but he had a solid BH block, good flat attacks, and his serve combo no-spin / underspin was good with good placement variation too. We shared G1 and G2, but he played better and outplayed me totally in G3 with his serves. But what looked like a probable 1-3 defeat turned into a 3-2 victory when suddenly i could read better his serves and return well and play more agressively. I fought hard to win G4 in deuce, saving a few match points, and the opponent collapsed in G5.

2nd match was easy. 3rd match was a LP blocker. I trained a lot recently against this style against which i struggle traditionally and I was very happy to win 3-0. G1 was tough but G2 G3 were comfortable

in phase 2, i was in a new group of 4 players who all won their morning group. Never won a tournament match against my opponents, not even a set against the first 2, actually scored maybe 5 points on average per game.
But i had no pressure, and i played really good TT. I lost both matches 1-3 but I had good chance to win.
1st match after losing as usual -3 and -6, opponent started to lose a bit focus, i had a good start and won 11-5. got into the zone and a 7-4 lead in G4 but as its common, hesitated on the next 2 points and the other guy started to focus more and play with more variation, and i got out of the zone. lost 8-11 in G4

2nd match, leftie J-Pen attacker, won G1 after a fantastic start 11-9. guy was tired from his previous match. But thereafter he made less mistakes and found a J-pen "BH" serve with fast execution down the line with a lot of sidespin and sometimes topspin or underspin, i couldn't make a decent receive against it. so it was a 1-3 defeat +9 -8 -8 -6.

3rd match. another leftie attacker (2 BS) against the odds, he won his 2 other matches and would finish 1st of the group (and me 4th) whatever the result. Probably he played cooler than usual. it was an open match and a bit hectic +5 -5 -6 +6 before G5 that I won after a long deuce. Still a good win, i lost 2-3 and 0-3 in our last 2 encounters, and i only once won him in a training match. IIRC i won against him long ago in a tournament but he wasn't as strong as now.

4W2L. but I played really good TT today above my usual tournament level with a lot of very good rallies, i also had good plans. My serve game was good. The only serve i got sometimes punished overall is when my topspin BH serve (from FH side) down the line straight to leftie FH wasn't spinny or fast enough. but i didn't do it often. Half long serve and high toss underspin serve to short parallel serve were effective in addition to the usual BH serves.

Still feel pain in the arm / elbow but i've been learning to deal with it and prepare well.

 

[dingyibvs]

I know exactly what the problem is, I am talking about the things I have tried to make the feeling more similar. I am currently using a blade with innerforce design (CCF), but I sometimes switch to blades with outer force design ( I have a Mizutani Jun SZLC, Boll T5000 and even a Garaydia T5000 amongst other very fast blades). In this particular case, it might not even be the outer carbon that is causing the problem, it might also be that the feeling of limba makes more sense to dingyibvs than the feeling of Koto. In the end though, these things can all be adjusted to somewhat by just repeatedly adapting the shot to the equipment as long as the blade isn't too far outside the frequency of your feeling. Otherwise we would see some huge difference between pros using outerforce and innerforce blades.

I went through a similar process with the switch from Yasaka Sweden Extra to 2014 HL5 to W968. Changing rubbers was easy, but nothing really made up for the dramatic change in blade characteristics like @Emin said. I think 6 months is probably a little too much, to me it really depended on how much dedicated FH training time you can allot. Pros switch rather fast, for example, even with much more ingrained strokes as they can practice for a very long time.

 

[NextLevel]

I went through a similar process with the switch from Yasaka Sweden Extra to 2014 HL5 to W968. Changing rubbers was easy, but nothing really made up for the dramatic change in blade characteristics like @Emin said. I think 6 months is probably a little too much, to me it really depended on how much dedicated FH training time you can allot. Pros switch rather fast, for example, even with much more ingrained strokes as they can practice for a very long time.

Pros also have adaptable strokes and usually it isn't the rally topspin stroke that is being solved for but the ability to attack out of and stay within the short game. That said, equipment changes that affect 100 pts have a real impact on what you play like in a match. I do believe that most Viscarias are still under 1500 Hz in frequency. It would be interesting to see what the W968 is at with its design.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

after months of bad results, finally i had a decent tournament day. in a veteran 50+ tournament

I gave more rest this week to my arm and trained only twice in shortened sessions on Thursday and Friday. Friday i had very good feeling with the ball, one of my best training sessions ever, with a very high % of quality BH opening.

in phase 1, i was in a group of 4 of which i was the seeded player thanks to a good result last year.

the first match of the day was a tough one, the kind of match i lost a lot recently. The player was far from exceptional he couldn't put much spin but he had a solid BH block, good flat attacks, and his serve combo no-spin / underspin was good with good placement variation too. We shared G1 and G2, but he played better and outplayed me totally in G3 with his serves. But what looked like a probable 1-3 defeat turned into a 3-2 victory when suddenly i could read better his serves and return well and play more agressively. I fought hard to win G4 in deuce, saving a few match points, and the opponent collapsed in G5.

2nd match was easy. 3rd match was a LP blocker. I trained a lot recently against this style against which i struggle traditionally and I was very happy to win 3-0. G1 was tough but G2 G3 were comfortable

in phase 2, i was in a new group of 4 players who all won their morning group. Never won a tournament match against my opponents, not even a set against the first 2, actually scored maybe 5 points on average per game.
But i had no pressure, and i played really good TT. I lost both matches 1-3 but I had good chance to win.
1st match after losing as usual -3 and -6, opponent started to lose a bit focus, i had a good start and won 11-5. got into the zone and a 7-4 lead in G4 but as its common, hesitated on the next 2 points and the other guy started to focus more and play with more variation, and i got out of the zone. lost 8-11 in G4

2nd match, leftie J-Pen attacker, won G1 after a fantastic start 11-9. guy was tired from his previous match. But thereafter he made less mistakes and found a J-pen "BH" serve with fast execution down the line with a lot of sidespin and sometimes topspin or underspin, i couldn't make a decent receive against it. so it was a 1-3 defeat +9 -8 -8 -6.

3rd match. another leftie attacker (2 BS) against the odds, he won his 2 other matches and would finish 1st of the group (and me 4th) whatever the result. Probably he played cooler than usual. it was an open match and a bit hectic +5 -5 -6 +6 before G5 that I won after a long deuce. Still a good win, i lost 2-3 and 0-3 in our last 2 encounters, and i only once won him in a training match. IIRC i won against him long ago in a tournament but he wasn't as strong as now.

4W2L. but I played really good TT today above my usual tournament level with a lot of very good rallies, i also had good plans. My serve game was good. The only serve i got sometimes punished overall is when my topspin BH serve (from FH side) down the line straight to leftie FH wasn't spinny or fast enough. but i didn't do it often. Half long serve and high toss underspin serve to short parallel serve were effective in addition to the usual BH serves.

Still feel pain in the arm / elbow but i've been learning to deal with it and prepare well.

Okay, after reading your post, let me to talk about my day yesterday (Saturday).
rock up at a place I haven't been to for few months
A place with 12 or so tables, and went straight the "play table" (match only).

Warmed up at the next table for few mins, and the play table was available - my turn to play.
opponent - no idea who, cpen medium pip one side, H3 blue sponge other side, and he twiddles.
pretty strong I believe, seems like the best player there on the day..

Well, I never enjoy playing penholders or pips, it means I just need to work harder. With no tt time for the past 30 days or so (other than coaching 12 hours in the week prior).

So, the match table and my warm up table has different bounce, match table was slower. So i choose to warm up for 5 mins than the normal 2 mins.

I lead 6-0 before dropping my first point. I win 11-4. A problem with 5-4 being the last 9.... with me trying out different things - including higher risk play.

Match 2 was neck to neck and after leading 8-6, I lost 5 on the trot. That match really took the life out of me and I know that my battery went from 100 to 80% in game 1, and down to 50% after game 2. Without winning game 2, its not going to be easy.

I feel that I can still be young and still went for crazy youthful strategies. Well, can't remember much, but last 2 I lost with 7 in the 3rd and 9 in the 4th.

Close contest, with a couple of good rallies both ways. The guy attacks with both sides of the blade, only traditional push (no rpb), and has a monster FH.
His pips didn't cause any threat to me, other than misjudging only a couple in the 4 games.
I was really struggling with moving, especially he keep sending me to the right (my fh). Mind was there, but body can't get to it (for a good return)

Overall, good work out and if only I was 10kg lighter and fitter.
played a bit with weaker players for 30 mins, and went back to play this penholder
I was drained by then, and lost 0-3, all with around 8.
With the 7 games against the same guy, I relied on my serves to gain me a lot of direct points, I guess that is my last strength I have that doesn't involved moving, but at best, that is only a deuce lol.

After 1.5 hour of game time only, I decided to call it the day.
He told me to come again, he is only there on Saturdays, but I won't be available at least for another 4 to 5 weeks... hopefully I can revenge my loss in the future.

Other than that, need to work on loosing weight first, as my shirts seem to shrunk a bit.... lol

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Okay, after reading your post, let me to talk about my day yesterday (Saturday).
rock up at a place I haven't been to for few months
A place with 12 or so tables, and went straight the "play table" (match only).

Warmed up at the next table for few mins, and the play table was available - my turn to play.
opponent - no idea who, cpen medium pip one side, H3 blue sponge other side, and he twiddles.
pretty strong I believe, seems like the best player there on the day..

Well, I never enjoy playing penholders or pips, it means I just need to work harder. With no tt time for the past 30 days or so (other than coaching 12 hours in the week prior).

So, the match table and my warm up table has different bounce, match table was slower. So i choose to warm up for 5 mins than the normal 2 mins.

I lead 6-0 before dropping my first point. I win 11-4. A problem with 5-4 being the last 9.... with me trying out different things - including higher risk play.

Match 2 was neck to neck and after leading 8-6, I lost 5 on the trot. That match really took the life out of me and I know that my battery went from 100 to 80% in game 1, and down to 50% after game 2. Without winning game 2, its not going to be easy.

I feel that I can still be young and still went for crazy youthful strategies. Well, can't remember much, but last 2 I lost with 7 in the 3rd and 9 in the 4th.

Close contest, with a couple of good rallies both ways. The guy attacks with both sides of the blade, only traditional push (no rpb), and has a monster FH.
His pips didn't cause any threat to me, other than misjudging only a couple in the 4 games.
I was really struggling with moving, especially he keep sending me to the right (my fh). Mind was there, but body can't get to it (for a good return)

Overall, good work out and if only I was 10kg lighter and fitter.
played a bit with weaker players for 30 mins, and went back to play this penholder
I was drained by then, and lost 0-3, all with around 8.
With the 7 games against the same guy, I relied on my serves to gain me a lot of direct points, I guess that is my last strength I have that doesn't involved moving, but at best, that is only a deuce lol.

After 1.5 hour of game time only, I decided to call it the day.
He told me to come again, he is only there on Saturdays, but I won't be available at least for another 4 to 5 weeks... hopefully I can revenge my loss in the future.

Other than that, need to work on loosing weight first, as my shirts seem to shrunk a bit.... lol

What amazes me in veteran tournaments in Japan is how fit competitors are. There are very few overweight not even talking about obese players. Most seem to also be either going to the gym or run long distances … or probably both…

A friend coming from Germany watching a female veteran competition said that in his country all participants would be twice as big ! 😂

Life advice
If you want to live a long healthy life , learn from Japan or even go live here

 

[dingyibvs]

Had a long practice match session today at the Alameda club, and found a big issue with the H3BS. Everything felt alright until I played against 2 pips players. One had anti/LP the other inverted/LP. I usually do really well against those types because I kill weak backspin balls and no spin balls with prejudice, but today I had a TON of trouble with it.

Turns out when the incoming balls have no pace and I have to generate all the power, I have to absolutely use 100% power with good technique to hit into the sponge. I turned my racket around and used the boosted D09c side, and it killed those jobs with absolute ease. I then switched the racket with a clubmate who uses the same blade and FH rubber. I pushed a couple balls high and floaty, and he dumped every single one of them into the net. Then he flipped my racket around and killed them with ease.

I think I'm gonna boost the H3 BS with another layer of Seamoon and see if it makes it a bit easier to hit into the sponge. In the meantime I'm gonna try out the boosted D09c on the FH side.

My training partner has been out of town so I'm taking advantage of this time to EJ to the max!

 

[blahness]

Had a long practice match session today at the Alameda club, and found a big issue with the H3BS. Everything felt alright until I played against 2 pips players. One had anti/LP the other inverted/LP. I usually do really well against those types because I kill weak backspin balls and no spin balls with prejudice, but today I had a TON of trouble with it.

Turns out when the incoming balls have no pace and I have to generate all the power, I have to absolutely use 100% power with good technique to hit into the sponge. I turned my racket around and used the boosted D09c side, and it killed those jobs with absolute ease. I then switched the racket with a clubmate who uses the same blade and FH rubber. I pushed a couple balls high and floaty, and he dumped every single one of them into the net. Then he flipped my racket around and killed them with ease.

I think I'm gonna boost the H3 BS with another layer of Seamoon and see if it makes it a bit easier to hit into the sponge. In the meantime I'm gonna try out the boosted D09c on the FH side.

My training partner has been out of town so I'm taking advantage of this time to EJ to the max!

This is why I think Dignics is just easier to play and less physically taxing. It makes the game more fun for me lol

 

[blahness]

Thats the big trade-off with Viscaria on Forehand, when you are used to the dwell time, hold and feeling of the inner blade.
Unless you are willing to train forehand loops for the next 6 months non-stop, I dont think you will gain similar confidence.

There are so many more adjustments that one needs to make with the outer blades when looping on forehand.
Racket Angle, Hitting point, Upward/Forward movement changes etc.

While the backhand is good, it just doesnt make up for the difficulties you get on the forehand.

I find that with Vis if you do the hit then brush thing with the wrist all the balls are going out of the table - it is really fast af. I find that I have to divide the work very clearly. Arm is for brushing - body to generate the impact force. I look at some of the fast blade players and they also approach it similarly. If you try the hit then brush - due to the lower dwell time the ball already went out without much spin during the hit phase

 

[kindof99]

Switching blades is such a painful process though. I feel no confidence when looping with Viscaria right now, the feel is just completely different and I can't predict when it'll drop into the net and when it'll blast past the table when I start using some power. Plus, I did invest ~$500 into the W968 lol, so I owe it to at least try the H3BS + D09c combo.

W968+d09c +d05 (both with one layer of Kailin oil) is good.

 

[kindof99]

Just realize why I felt so tired after play this afternoon. I used a golden hl5 the whole afternoon. It requires much more effort than my JM zlc.