Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Jslick89]

Hmmm... I really need to put my blue sponge H3 on a blade... but maybe not...

It's interesting, I just realized I haven't recorded myself since I started using H3 - maybe I am injuring myself lol - will look into it.

More seriously, H3 has restored my confidence in the connection between mind and effort on shots, have not felt this way about a rubber since I used Nexy Karis, I just wish I had enough time and money to test various sponge hardnesses and types to see which worked best.

What hardness are you using for H3? I have 39 degree OS commercial i am using on my forehand. But i have a couple variations of the BS prov i'm waiting to bust out. probably after this next tournament i will make the switch. i find it hard to take off a rubber that is still performing well for me though. I actually might just do one more layer of booster on my current rubber and see if i can get another few months out of it. lol.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

If you are married, it is just as mother nature intended...
View attachment 29791

uncle Gozo to the rescue yet again

 

[NextLevel]

What hardness are you using for H3? I have 39 degree OS commercial i am using on my forehand. But i have a couple variations of the BS prov i'm waiting to bust out. probably after this next tournament i will make the switch. i find it hard to take off a rubber that is still performing well for me though. I actually might just do one more layer of booster on my current rubber and see if i can get another few months out of it. lol.

I tend to use 40-41 degrees, but honestly, I don't know whether it is good for me or not, it is just what made the most sense since most of my ESN rubbers are 50+ and Golden Tango and Rakza Z EH which I both liked were around 54 degrees. And I also know a penholder who uses 42 degrees on a YEO for a close to the table blocking and suppression style so a lot depends on how you contact the ball. I did buy a 38 degrees to test on backhand (I think 37 degrees for me would be too soft).

I don't boost (I use faster blades to compensate and stay fairly close to the table) so I expect my rubbers to last forever - I also prefer the weight unboosted. Even Golden Tango when I changed it was probably still usable. But they discontinued Golden Tango and the replacement Tronix ZGR has no stickiness at all, so I am not sure whether I will be able to use it.

 

[dingyibvs]

I tend to use 40-41 degrees, but honestly, I don't know whether it is good for me or not, it is just what made the most sense since most of my ESN rubbers are 50+ and Golden Tango and Rakza Z EH which I both liked were around 54 degrees. And I also know a penholder who uses 42 degrees on a YEO for a close to the table blocking and suppression style so a lot depends on how you contact the ball. I did buy a 38 degrees to test on backhand (I think 37 degrees for me would be too soft).

I don't boost (I use faster blades to compensate and stay fairly close to the table) so I expect my rubbers to last forever - I also prefer the weight unboosted. Even Golden Tango when I changed it was probably still usable. But they discontinued Golden Tango and the replacement Tronix ZGR has no stickiness at all, so I am not sure whether I will be able to use it.

Unboosted it's almost impossible to hit into the sponge! It does have great grip and would follow the characteristics of your blade entirely.

I boosted another sheet of D09c with one layer, will see if that's sufficient for the FH side. In the meantime, I think I might glue the H3 OS 37 degrees onto my blade to see if it works as a FH rubber. It's been boosted 2 layers so should be soft enough for me to hit through with my FH.

All this talk about equipment, I should mention something about playing as well. I'm working on two things right now. First is an aggressive application of my BH. It's a bit hard to specifically train for, as the issue is just adjusting to variability in the game. A little faster, a little slower, a little higher, a little lower, a little side spin, a little more dead, etc. I can hit them at a good clip in practice now, but in games I don't feel confident about it and end up rushing, or if I focus on not rushing I sometimes do too much "aiming". I accept that I'll be losing a lot of points attempting this, but short of having a dedicated coach it'll be tough to do it nay other way.

On the FH side, I'm working on better technique in covering my wide FH. I have a habit of over-running the ball, so that my momentum is still going to the right and back when I strike the ball. I sometimes run so far past the ball that I completely whiff. It also makes it so that I can only get a brush-ish loop in and only to the middle or BH side of the opponent's side, and I can't get back for the next shot. I see that the pros hop to the right just enough and then plant the right foot and weight transfer back to the left. This would allow a more solid shot, better control on location, and most importantly, better readiness for the next shot.

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

I tend to use 40-41 degrees, but honestly, I don't know whether it is good for me or not, it is just what made the most sense since most of my ESN rubbers are 50+ and Golden Tango and Rakza Z EH which I both liked were around 54 degrees. And I also know a penholder who uses 42 degrees on a YEO for a close to the table blocking and suppression style so a lot depends on how you contact the ball. I did buy a 38 degrees to test on backhand (I think 37 degrees for me would be too soft).

I don't boost (I use faster blades to compensate and stay fairly close to the table) so I expect my rubbers to last forever - I also prefer the weight unboosted. Even Golden Tango when I changed it was probably still usable. But they discontinued Golden Tango and the replacement Tronix ZGR has no stickiness at all, so I am not sure whether I will be able to use it.

Curious to hear what you think about the Tronix. I think it is a good rubber but it is indeed nontacky, and in terms of replacing GT I think K2 is the closest available, RZEH is not quite as lively as GT and K2 and it is also a bit grabbier. To me Tronix ZGR feels somewhat more in line to what a crunchier, less sticky and less supportive Hurricane would be rather than an out-and-out Golden Tango replacement even though IMO they all do a lot of similar things. My K2 feels a bit softer than GT, but I have only had some testing with one sheet so far.

I personally find 39 the most well rounded H3 but 40 and 41 are appreciably faster and more supportive when you push on the gas, and more stable and inert when it comes to absorbing pressure. 39 just has a more forgiving arc and easier access to spin and grip. You might also like the provincial Skylines, they are a bit slower than Hurricane but I've always felt Skylines are easier to block and counter with at closerange vs H3 but since they only come with the #22 sponge they are more expensive than provincial #20 Hurricane.

 

[Emin]

I can hit them at a good clip in practice now, but in games I don't feel confident about it and end up rushing,

To "solve" / deal with that specific issue I have Come up with some methods to Deal with that for people like us.

The most useful one I call "Training under tension".

It takes the idea of training with a competitive mindset multiple steps further and makes it actually work.

It is quite complicated, but I can give a short explanation here.

The most important points are:

- Artificially make yourself think that your next x amount of balls really really important and that missing them will have huge consequences and hitting them will be a Great reward ( similar to a 9-9 Situation)

- It can help to tell your Partner that you need to Hit the next 3 out of 3 balls.

- If you miss, due to being under tension, its a good sign, then you can work from there

- The thought patterns and tension in your body should automatically come to you, as if you were actually playing and the outcome was important to you

- Even when you know the ball what is will come at you, consider it a Prediction, like you sometimes would in a real match

- Use it wisely, Dont use it when learning a technique or improving something

- Use it when you wanna gain Confidence in a shot and make it applicable for a Match

It takes some time to get good at it ( like with All things), but it helped me and my partners gain Confidence in our shots, make better use of our skills in non-Training specific situations and overall get improve thinking, decision making and Action under Pressure.

 

[dingyibvs]

To "solve" / deal with that specific issue I have Come up with some methods to Deal with that for people like us.

The most useful one I call "Training under tension".

It takes the idea of training with a competitive mindset multiple steps further and makes it actually work.

It is quite complicated, but I can give a short explanation here.

The most important points are:

- Artificially make yourself think that your next x amount of balls really really important and that missing them will have huge consequences and hitting them will be a Great reward ( similar to a 9-9 Situation)

- It can help to tell your Partner that you need to Hit the next 3 out of 3 balls.

- If you miss, due to being under tension, its a good sign, then you can work from there

- The thought patterns and tension in your body should automatically come to you, as if you were actually playing and the outcome was important to you

- Even when you know the ball what is will come at you, consider it a Prediction, like you sometimes would in a real match

- Use it wisely, Dont use it when learning a technique or improving something

- Use it when you wanna gain Confidence in a shot and make it applicable for a Match

It takes some time to get good at it ( like with All things), but it helped me and my partners gain Confidence in our shots, make better use of our skills in non-Training specific situations and overall get improve thinking, decision making and Action under Pressure.

We were talking about the mental techniques a couple pages back, the issue is that the mind can fatigue even quicker than the body.

Sometimes I just compensate with physical techniques, which is easier with a robot. For example, I would pretend to be misled and act like I'm about to hit a FH shot before realizing the ball is coming to my BH and adjust to hit the shot, or I'd start the shot from too close or too far from the landing spot and have to make room or step closer to hit the shot. Just doing whatever I can to work movement and uncertainty to my training. I've also varied the requency of the ball, sometimes coming slow, sometimes fast.

I've found these techniques to be helpful. For example, I've found that just the the threat of a very fast follow up shot, say at 100+ balls/min pace, makes me short-arm some shots and decrease my overall consistency against lower frequency shot si have plenty of time to prepare for.

 

[SleepyMaster]

Had a practice today: two hours exercises, one hour matches. My few games

On exercises I was feeling good, and consistency was on point, but in matches I was not able to playing my best, after session few guys that are seasoned players, complimented my game and were telling me that I really improved in overall - but I didn’t feel the same way for some reason ( maybe bc I always losing to a coach almost 98% of games - but I should learn from that, I guess 🤔 )

 

[NextLevel]

Unboosted it's almost impossible to hit into the sponge! It does have great grip and would follow the characteristics of your blade entirely.

I boosted another sheet of D09c with one layer, will see if that's sufficient for the FH side. In the meantime, I think I might glue the H3 OS 37 degrees onto my blade to see if it works as a FH rubber. It's been boosted 2 layers so should be soft enough for me to hit through with my FH.

All this talk about equipment, I should mention something about playing as well. I'm working on two things right now. First is an aggressive application of my BH. It's a bit hard to specifically train for, as the issue is just adjusting to variability in the game. A little faster, a little slower, a little higher, a little lower, a little side spin, a little more dead, etc. I can hit them at a good clip in practice now, but in games I don't feel confident about it and end up rushing, or if I focus on not rushing I sometimes do too much "aiming". I accept that I'll be losing a lot of points attempting this, but short of having a dedicated coach it'll be tough to do it nay other way.

On the FH side, I'm working on better technique in covering my wide FH. I have a habit of over-running the ball, so that my momentum is still going to the right and back when I strike the ball. I sometimes run so far past the ball that I completely whiff. It also makes it so that I can only get a brush-ish loop in and only to the middle or BH side of the opponent's side, and I can't get back for the next shot. I see that the pros hop to the right just enough and then plant the right foot and weight transfer back to the left. This would allow a more solid shot, better control on location, and most importantly, better readiness for the next shot.

Gotta master the cross and semi-cross step. Fang Bo has a video on it that tells you to ,backswing before you move, but even before that, I had some coaching on that, you have to hit the ball in the air and land into ready position/rebalance with a step.

 

[NextLevel]

Unboosted it's almost impossible to hit into the sponge! It does have great grip and would follow the characteristics of your blade entirely.

I boosted another sheet of D09c with one layer, will see if that's sufficient for the FH side. In the meantime, I think I might glue the H3 OS 37 degrees onto my blade to see if it works as a FH rubber. It's been boosted 2 layers so should be soft enough for me to hit through with my FH.

All this talk about equipment, I should mention something about playing as well. I'm working on two things right now. First is an aggressive application of my BH. It's a bit hard to specifically train for, as the issue is just adjusting to variability in the game. A little faster, a little slower, a little higher, a little lower, a little side spin, a little more dead, etc. I can hit them at a good clip in practice now, but in games I don't feel confident about it and end up rushing, or if I focus on not rushing I sometimes do too much "aiming". I accept that I'll be losing a lot of points attempting this, but short of having a dedicated coach it'll be tough to do it nay other way.

On the FH side, I'm working on better technique in covering my wide FH. I have a habit of over-running the ball, so that my momentum is still going to the right and back when I strike the ball. I sometimes run so far past the ball that I completely whiff. It also makes it so that I can only get a brush-ish loop in and only to the middle or BH side of the opponent's side, and I can't get back for the next shot. I see that the pros hop to the right just enough and then plant the right foot and weight transfer back to the left. This would allow a more solid shot, better control on location, and most importantly, better readiness for the next shot.

I wouldn't go that far with "almost impossible", but yes, the reliability is beautiful and I suspect that if my knees heal, I can get to 2100 with my current setups. The thing is that I played with Mark V and I could see that Hurricane unboosted is way better than Mark V. Ultimately, I just want something that when I play the ball, I know what it is going to do.

 

[dingyibvs]

Gotta master the cross and semi-cross step. Fang Bo has a video on it that tells you to ,backswing before you move, but even before that, I had some coaching on that, you have to hit the ball in the air and land into ready position/rebalance with a step.

Yup, I've watched that video. The way I do it I'm still falling backwards and to the right after the shot, so never in position to hit the next shot. Footwork is one thing the robot is great for, so I'm gonna practice that by myself. Gonna start off with a simple pivot for a FH opening loop from the BH corner, then re-loop from the FH corner. After that perhaps I'll try some Falkenburg so I'd actually have to hit the next shot.

 

[NextLevel]

Curious to hear what you think about the Tronix. I think it is a good rubber but it is indeed nontacky, and in terms of replacing GT I think K2 is the closest available, RZEH is not quite as lively as GT and K2 and it is also a bit grabbier. To me Tronix ZGR feels somewhat more in line to what a crunchier, less sticky and less supportive Hurricane would be rather than an out-and-out Golden Tango replacement even though IMO they all do a lot of similar things. My K2 feels a bit softer than GT, but I have only had some testing with one sheet so far.

I personally find 39 the most well rounded H3 but 40 and 41 are appreciably faster and more supportive when you push on the gas, and more stable and inert when it comes to absorbing pressure. 39 just has a more forgiving arc and easier access to spin and grip. You might also like the provincial Skylines, they are a bit slower than Hurricane but I've always felt Skylines are easier to block and counter with at closerange vs H3 but since they only come with the #22 sponge they are more expensive than provincial #20 Hurricane.

I put the Tronix on my Trinity and the initial spin tests had me excited. Then I got to the table and I started reliving the experience I had using Dignics 05 after having used hybrids for a period - it took a lot of practice to get used to the ball again and setting racket angles early and the forgiving nature of hybrids. I moved the Tronix ZGR to the Szocs blade (wood) so I can test it out with hopefully more feeling. That said, I had bought some Skyline 2 and will be testing that on Mizutani SZLC (not provincial though, just regular Skyline 2). But my Hurricane play is in the ball park and I just need to get better at that.

 

[NextLevel]

Yup, I've watched that video. The way I do it I'm still falling backwards and to the right after the shot, so never in position to hit the next shot. Footwork is one thing the robot is great for, so I'm gonna practice that by myself. Gonna start off with a simple pivot for a FH opening loop from the BH corner, then re-loop from the FH corner. After that perhaps I'll try some Falkenburg so I'd actually have to hit the next shot.

My online coach back then had me doing pivot and cross shadow footwork as daily exercise. It was funny how one day, I used the semi-cross in a tournament in a tight situation and people said that was a lucky forehand lol.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

A part of me agrees with the attitude behind this.

But for me, the reason I disagree with you Gozo is that you are too obsessed with SPEED for your playing level. Flextra I hoped would help you kick the habit as well as good coaching but all that has happened is that you want your SPEED back, rather than you working on more ways to win points other than just SPEED!

 

[NextLevel]

View attachment 29798

To be fair, it is not just you, even players better than you have the same attitude. I teach them how to block with (directional) control and they are like "won't that be easy for the opponent to attack" and I tell them, sometimes, the problem is not the opponent attacking, the problem is you even feeling confident enough that no matter what happens the ball will land on the table! And this is just after they lost to someone who was spinny looping at 10 mph to them because they became so afraid of blocking the ball long they just started to hold the bat out and pray.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

To be fair, it is not just you, even players better than you have the same attitude. I teach them how to block with (directional) control and they are like "won't that be easy for the opponent to attack" and I tell them, sometimes, the problem is not the opponent attacking, the problem is you even feeling confident enough that no matter what happens the ball will land on the table! And this is just after they lost to someone who was spinny looping at 10 mph to them because they became so afraid of blocking the ball long they just started to hold the bat out and pray.

• I have met and play regularly just the type of player you have described.
• Truly Uncle style(tm).
• No speed and unhurried play style.
• Uses lots of soft block with good placement.
• Difficult to counter-drive because his ball is lethargic with no power. I mockingly called him Mr. Ghey Power but he remains unfazed.
• Sometimes he will chop block just to piss me off.
• May appear like a frail weak uncle from the outside, but a complete wily fox inside.
• Very challenging to play with him.
• He uses regular rubber both side.
• His serve comes in 1001 variety. Like a international buffet in a five star hotel.

 

[blahness]

Unboosted it's almost impossible to hit into the sponge! It does have great grip and would follow the characteristics of your blade entirely.

I boosted another sheet of D09c with one layer, will see if that's sufficient for the FH side. In the meantime, I think I might glue the H3 OS 37 degrees onto my blade to see if it works as a FH rubber. It's been boosted 2 layers so should be soft enough for me to hit through with my FH.

All this talk about equipment, I should mention something about playing as well. I'm working on two things right now. First is an aggressive application of my BH. It's a bit hard to specifically train for, as the issue is just adjusting to variability in the game. A little faster, a little slower, a little higher, a little lower, a little side spin, a little more dead, etc. I can hit them at a good clip in practice now, but in games I don't feel confident about it and end up rushing, or if I focus on not rushing I sometimes do too much "aiming". I accept that I'll be losing a lot of points attempting this, but short of having a dedicated coach it'll be tough to do it nay other way.

On the FH side, I'm working on better technique in covering my wide FH. I have a habit of over-running the ball, so that my momentum is still going to the right and back when I strike the ball. I sometimes run so far past the ball that I completely whiff. It also makes it so that I can only get a brush-ish loop in and only to the middle or BH side of the opponent's side, and I can't get back for the next shot. I see that the pros hop to the right just enough and then plant the right foot and weight transfer back to the left. This would allow a more solid shot, better control on location, and most importantly, better readiness for the next shot.

I actually drilled this a lot. So the key here is if you do any crossover step and rotate mid air, you must land on your left foot, not the right. So you essentially push off right foot and land with left foot with body facing slightly left (post rotation) regardless of the circumstances. If you land with right foot or didnt rotate you have no hope of getting back into position as you will be out of balance.

It is good to lunge as far as you can with your first step prior to the crossover step to reduce the distance for the crossover step because the further you jump to the right the harder it is to recover fast.

After landing on the left foot, you would be relatively balanced and it would just be a lateral push from the right foot to get back in position. PechPong had a great video on it.

I actually love to use BH after a crossover step, for me it is very natural because I feel like that position really works well for BH. I pretty much almost never do another FH after the crossover step because it is usually way too difficult. Also BH you can take balls earlier and get access to nastier angles.

So a typical pattern would be to crossover step loop it diagonal with sidespin to opponent's wide FH and force the return to middle - FH. Then the next BH i will be taking it early and countering it down the line to their wide BH (ZJK and Harimoto both love this pattern) even if the ball comes to the FH. Your opponent is almost forced to lob or chop the ball after this sequence if done correctly. It is a very deadly combo and imo better than taking another FH.

 

[dingyibvs]

I actually drilled this a lot. So the key here is if you do any crossover step and rotate mid air, you must land on your left foot, not the right. So you essentially push off right foot and land with left foot with body facing slightly left (post rotation) regardless of the circumstances. If you land with right foot or didnt rotate you have no hope of getting back into position as you will be out of balance.

It is good to lunge as far as you can with your first step prior to the crossover step to reduce the distance for the crossover step because the further you jump to the right the harder it is to recover fast.

After landing on the left foot, you would be relatively balanced and it would just be a lateral push from the right foot to get back in position. PechPong had a great video on it.

I actually love to use BH after a crossover step, for me it is very natural because I feel like that position really works well for BH. I pretty much almost never do another FH after the crossover step because it is usually way too difficult. Also BH you can take balls earlier and get access to nastier angles.

So a typical pattern would be to crossover step loop it diagonal with sidespin to opponent's wide FH and force the return to middle - FH. Then the next BH i will be taking it early and countering it down the line to their wide BH (ZJK and Harimoto both love this pattern) even if the ball comes to the FH. Your opponent is almost forced to lob or chop the ball after this sequence if done correctly. It is a very deadly combo and imo better than taking another FH.

Yes, I always land with my right. I'm trying to work on it tonight, and boy is it exhausting. Also, I can see why a BH shot next is natural. You often land with the right foot forward, so in a BH stance.

I'm taking a break right now, gonna see what I sights I can find.

 

[blahness]

Yes, I always land with my right. I'm trying to work on it tonight, and boy is it exhausting. Also, I can see why a BH shot next is natural. You often land with the right foot forward, so in a BH stance.

I'm taking a break right now, gonna see what I sights I can find.

Regardless of what you do, you must always land on left foot, with the left foot in front of right. If your right foot is in front you must have over rotated and this would greatly affect recovery in a negative way...

 

[dingyibvs]

Regardless of what you do, you must always land on left foot, with the left foot in front of right. If your right foot is in front you must have over rotated and this would greatly affect recovery in a negative way...

Well, it shouldn't if your next shot is gonna be a BH shot. Throughout the practice today, I actually found it rather difficult to land with my right foot forward, even when I really tried. I think the issue is that my robot needs to be set to the center, so the wide-FH shot is really wide. When I have to leap that far with my left foot I'm not able to rotate my body enough to have my right foot land forward.

Aside from working on this, I also did some FHs with the H3 OS 37 degrees. I gotta say, I really don't like this rubber. Maybe it's not boosted enough, it just feels so dead. It feels like it just absorbs all the energy you're putting into the shot. The H3 OS 40, unboosted, at least feels like it's transmitting the energy to your blade, even if it's not really doing anything for you in terms of holding and catapulting the ball, but the 37 degrees just absorbs all the energy. I'm gonna boost it to hell and see if that works better lol. Either way, I think I'm sticking with some form of D09c on my BH side. I boosted one more sheet with just 1 layer of FTL, plan to try it out on my FH side since I can already hit into the sponge relatively well with my FH and I wouldn't want it to be too bouncy. The 2 layer boosted for the BH side feels very good already and is on the edge of bounciness that I'd like.