You'd be able to offer great comparisons with the IF ALC then, as I've never used it.
Im not sure I agree with the speed assessment though. I used the YSE, which is more of an ALL/ALL+ blade, for 3 months with D09C on FH before switching to the HL5. I actually first tried the one you sold me, and I switched back and forth between the YSE and the HL5. My blocks immediately started to go off the table, and loops that would've gone into the net landed. The blocks were easy to adjust to, and I fell in love with the way it loops, that's why I ended up switching.
To me, the HL5 feels like an ALL/ALL+ blade in the short game as I had identical control with services/receives as the YSE, ALL+/OFF- blade with medium strength shots including blocking against heavy loops, then OFF/OFF+ in loop drives. When I loop drive the speed/spin/control is tremendous compared to the Viscaria which I compared head-to-head with over the next week, but in quick counters on both FH and BH it's a bit slower and mushier. Since I mostly win points with loop drives, many of which set up by the service/receive game, I chose the HL5.
DHS W968 review
- Thread starter Zwill
- Start date
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I felt almost no difference between the 4 IF ALC's I had in the HL5, they all felt at least 2 notches slower and less reactive than a Viscaria (classic OFF blade). I'd still rate them OFF- but OFF- is a large range, and they're OFF minus minus in my view, while the YSE is an ALL+ at best (and a great blade no doubt).
It seems like the HL5 works very well for you and that is what's important! Personally, I always try to use the slowest yet crisp blade I can and stop where a blade feels too slow or not crisp enough (my issue with the HL5). The Viscaria is too fast and jumpy for me even with slowish and/or stable rubbers. The IF ZLC is a good compromise of many things for me although it can lack feel sometimes. We'll see if the W968 can maintain a lot of what I like while providing more organic feel. From what I've tested before with my 3 clubmates' 968's, it's promising / worth a shot.
You'll definitely find the W968 faster and more crisp, I think you'll find it a huge upgrade on the BH if it's not too fast for you taste and you enjoy the crisp feel. Looking forward to what you think of it!
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I would pretty much agree with all of your assessment here, having used all of these blades and an HL5x too (much faster in my view than HL5)
I wouldn’t however rate Viscaria too fast or jumpy and in fact the FZD is closer to the W968 than any of the other blades (including HL5 and 5x) - it’s now my backup blade with the same rubbers (D05/T05FX)
Anyhow, I usually loop-drive the backspins to the FH side with 60-80% power since this is not a FH backspin practice. For those shots you can only barely appreciate the flex of the HL5. That would be the first few FH loops I did in the video. Since this was at the end of my practice and I wanted to tire myself out, I looped a few times with 100% power. That would be the last 3 loops (I didn't hit the last one well, legs were too tired and that's when I knew to call it quits). That's when you start to really appreciate the tremendous flex and power of the HL5. You appreciate it even more in counter-loops from mid to long distance. The issue right now for me is that it's not crisp enough in the short-mid distance so I'd often lose the point there before I get to move far enough from the table to loop from farther away. This can probably be overcome by technique, but I'm too focused on my BH right now to spend too much time working on that.
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Maybe you're trying to compensate for the blade not being crisp enough?
On the FH, your elbow goes up and around every time, it should stay pointing down, control the elbow and use the forearm more, this should help you brush.
On the BH, your elbow stays pointing down which is good, it's harder to tell what needs work besides that you seem to be hitting hard rather than brushing, and it seems like you hit the ball in the middle of the racket rather than the top corner.
Hope this is helpful.
Nah, that's just my playing style, I loop kill whenever I can, and it's the reason I don't like blades like the Viscaria or TB ALC. What do you do with weak backspins like that on the FH? I probably land ~80% of those during games and probably ~90% of them go either for winners or at least such a weak shot that I can smash them back.
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In 2021 I bought an old W968 (the oversized one). This is the first blade I’ve used continuously for over 12 months (EJ virus 🦠 cure hopeful 😁)
Tell me about it, I get addicted to the catapult effect when I power loop on FH (41 degree blue H3). It’s such a pleasant feeling. The shot just shoots like a rocket, yet dips very low.
But close to table, BH and FH feel so muted, so mushy.
That’s why I have a Vis. When I am lazy I just use my Vis to whack. But the FH is just too crisp.
So in short, I am caught between a rock and a difficult place.
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Just some advice with my best intentions. You really should use your legs to kick up and forwards. You go down a bit but kinda stay there static. And because of this you don't use your pelvis and back at all.
To me it looks like your hits haven't got much spin or speed but you are giving your all. Use your body and wrist more and experiment, you are lucky to have a table and robot.
Be careful with using your shoulder like that, to me it looks like an injury in the making what you are doing on FH 😰
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That’s a good point! 👍
Arguably their 42 degree H3 can produce top speed higher than most other rubbers.
I actually use my legs a lot, you should be able to see it in the video, that's where most of my power comes from. What I have a lot of trouble using is my hips. You're right that I don't rotate my pelvis/lower back a whole lot. I've been trying to get it loosened up a bit, but I have a naturally tight hip such that I have trouble doing deadlifts with the proper form because I can't keep my back straight when I'm bending down, kind of like the picture on the left:
I'm working on my hip flexibility but I'm not sure how much further I can get in that. ☹ I try to compensate by using my legs more. My shoulders don't feel anything actually as my upper body is fairly relaxed during the stroke. I actually just had a shoulder workout 14 hours before that practice, and it didn't affect anything as it's simply not really that involved. During that exercise my legs are always the limiting factor. For example, in that video, my legs got tired out after just 2 of those 100% loop drives so that when I attempted the 3rd I wasn't able to generate any power. I play soccer as well so my legs are the muscles with the greatest strength and endurance, but they wear out first during any practice involving my FH. My shoulder is much more taxed by my BH practices as I can't really use legs to generate much power.
Anyhow, surprisingly, my W968 has been shipped! I wasn't hopeful about it shipping before the Chinese New Year, but now it has, hopefully it can make it out of China before everything shuts down. Then I won't have to keep playing with this sheet of D09C any longer:
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Just the FH side, BH is D05. I actually like the D09C on the BH side a lot too when I twiddle, but the D05 works pretty well. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. Until I figure out what my BH game will be like I don't think I have a strong preference at the moment.
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You seem to generate a lot of power on your own. Have you tried softer rubbers on your BH? T05 FX really helped me develop my backhand.
T05FX was my primary BH rubber before I switched to the HL5, so it was one of the first rubber I tried. I thought it was a little too mushy, but that may also be because my BH is just not very good. I don't have the technique to generate much power on the BH side yet so I thought the T05FX would work well, but the control was poor. It was night and day difference between its performance on the Viscaria.
I think I'm gonna develop my technique for a while longer, then perhaps give it another try. Maybe when the W968 arrives I'll glue the T05FX on it first and see how it works?
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So regarding the backhand side I've been experimenting a bit.
Initially I tried V15 Extra which is pretty suitable in my opinion. It's one of the better ESN rubbers too, fast, crisp, not too spin sensitive, quite spinny and tolerates hard hits. It's good rubber and I guess it's no wonder Jang Woojin used this it on his W968. The only thing about the V15 Extra is which I mentioned before, maybe I got a not so great blue sheet... The black is great tho, not sure about the red one. The blue one for me is 53g which is a lot, the black is 49g and that is normal.
It's very good for banana flicks and blocking, I can see why so many high ranked pros chose this rubber.
Afterwards I tried MX-S which I found a bit hard to use. The topsheet is pretty hard for BH side, one needs constant wrist action otherwise the topsheet just doesn't bite. The ball just skids off the sheet and that is unwanted. On the other hand if you can create the friction it releases a very high quality ball.
I guess the best thing about MX-S is that it's very good with pushes. If it bites the ball during a push that is also very high quality underspin and fast.
It's pretty hard to do banana flicks with it since it doesn't bite that well, I always feel like it's a risky shot with this rubber.
It's a bit heavy rubber at 50-51g. I can imagine it being really good on FH for someone who prefers spin-tension rubbers over sticky. I think on FH MX-P is a mistake lol, MX-S is much better. BH I would probably choose MX-P since it's easier to use.
Xiom Vega Asia, so I borrowed one. I thought I will like it. I didn't. After playing with V15 and MX-S for a long time Vega Asia felt like it's made for kids. It is very stable and easy to use, it grips the ball automatically unlike the MX-S, which is a really positive point, but it lacks the stretch and "snap strength" of V15 and MX-S. The topsheet is soft and lazy. Now that being said if someone prefers the feeling that they are creating the spin and not some catapulty-stretchy rubber wizardry then I would totally recommend it. It's not slow either, on blocks and flat hits it's pretty bouncy. You can access the bounce effortlessly, but on hard swings I feel the rubber just "rolls off" like subwoofer over 150hz lol. I feel the max grip of the topsheet is much less than the previous 2 rubber. Now this actually opens a few possibilities I noticed. If you get spin loaded slow opening loops on your backhand from the Vega Asia the ball just slips off. It makes that hiss sound and the ball just slips if you touch the spinny ball very very softly. This can be abused since your opponent will step back and expect a high ball as a return, but you can just drop the ball right behind the net. It's like an anti rubber if you can use it this way.
Also I guess it has this mushy feeling which I don't love, but I can see the appeal of it actually.
It's pretty light at 46g too, so it has some things going for it, but it's just not for me I think.
And today I tried a Fastarc G-1. Well I have to admit I think this is the first time I played with a G-1. I got it used to test it out. Actually the topsheet is in pretty good nick for being used. So I can get why people say it is very durable. I think before I tried a P-1 just on someone else's racket, it left me with not much impression. But the G-1, damn I get why it's popular. Honestly speaking the topsheet is very grippy, I can't recall a non-sticky rubber that is more grippy than G-1. It's not a speed monster by default but I think it has a decent amount of catapult if one has the technique. I feel like it imparts more spin and speed on the ball if you try to hit down on the blade. In a way this resembles what Chinese rubbers are doing so no wonder it would work well with W968 too.
Since in EU there is a bit of an energy crisis the gyms are not heated properly, I actually play nowadays in ski underclothes which I bought in Aldi. (actually those would deserve a review how great they are for 10EUR lol)
Back on topic while V15 extra and especially MX-S topsheet gets harder below 18degrees it is a testament to G-1 how even in cold it has super grip and suppleness while V15 and MX-S is a struggle.
It is not a speed monster, but like... during blocking I did some flat punching. It is very spin insensitive and I didn't really have to punch hard to make the ball fast. I wouldn't say it's a slow rubber, just not as extreme as the above 3. Well since mine is used and all it shrank like most ESN rubbers (and maybe it was cut to a small head blade too) so when I glued it on the 968 it looks like a pen FH rubber. Well I just glued a piece of red rubber cutoff in the "empty" area. Yeah it's very ghetto. So without cut and some glue layers it was 47g, I predict it will be like 49g new fully cut to the W968. Oh I got it in superthick, which is 2.0mm. My friend said it's better in 2.0mm than in MAX. I believe him since you really need to hit down with it on the blade to make it work the best.
Yeah, I really like it, I like that it gives me stroke options. Hit hard, or just try to do a slow spinny BH open, banana flick should not be an issue with this level of grip.
TL;DR for backhand use:
Opening loops G-1>MX-S>=V15>Vega Asia
Fast attack V15>G-1>MX-S>Vega Asia
Underspin pushes MX-S>>G-1>Vega Asia>V15
Blocking V15>G-1>Vega Asia>MX-S
Countering MX-S>G-1>=V15>Vega Asia
Max Spin MX-S>G-1>V15>Vega Asia
Ease of rotation G-1>V15>Vega Asia>MX-S
Arc height MX-S>G-1>V15>Vega Asia
Speed Vega Asia>V15>MX-S>G-1
PS. If BH is your very weak side and you mainly push and block I suggest to try Tibhar Aurus Select, Joola Rhyzen CMD or Vega Asia and abuse the crap out of the soft touch slippage of Vega Asia. I am not joking that will totally mess with your opponent's brain!
If you want a light BH rubber, V11 extra or 2.1mm Tibhar Aurus Select. Both are sub 45g and very good.
Okay let's make a small detour for forehand too. (this is gonna be a love song)
Young Shine Dingtian... I have not touched that rubber since I glued it on. It is truly an amazing rubber. I think I actually like it more than H3N national blue sponge. There was a small learning curve with it but this rubber needs to be hyped to no end. Sure I'm sure W968 is a huge factor but this combo is really insane.
This combo with the right technique literally has "unlimited" power. Before with Rakza Z EH, Bluegrip C2, or H3N orange or be it H8-80 or even D09c on faster blades I used 80% of my power to impart good spin and speed on the ball. Of course, all of these are pretty hard rubbers so to achieve sponge compression and blade support I need a lot of force. But with W968 and the Dingtian I can just use 40% of my power and achieve more than with previously mentioned rubbers. W968 isn't a speed monster either, I played with faster blades before with those rubbers but like lol. Not even the same ballpark.
I can play so loosey-goosey on my FH now, I know with loose 40% power I can put away balls because they are so fast.
And guys make no mistake, the best hit is what your opponent cannot react or reach! Speed wins over spin!
I have been saying it before in some posts that I really don't feel how Chinese rubbers like H3N BS or even hybrids like Rakza Z create the spin. I still vouch for this, I don't know when or where it happens. With spin tension rubbers like V15 or MX-S or G-1 I can feel the topsheet stretching, but not with Chinese sticky rubbers. Normally with spin-tension rubbers you hit the ball tangentially and the topsheet stretches more and then it snaps back and the spin is generated. It is very simple and I can feel it happening in the process.
With sticky Chinese rubbers like H3N BS or especially the Dingtian I have to be very aware to just leave the bladeface totally vertical! If I hit the ball fully dead center and my arm is going upwards and my wrist is loose and moving upwars too this generates so much spin that is insane. And since it feels like I am basically smashing the ball it has incredible speed too. If course I am using my legs and hips, turn of my torso too this is why I can just use 40% of my power and the ball flies super fast. I remember H3N BS did this too, pretty well but I think Dingtian is even better. I hit my partner on the nail with a 80% power shot and he had to sit down since he was so much in pain.
This isn't convincing enough? I have more. I have booster the Dingtian with 2 light layers of FTL, like 5-6 weeks ago. I am not a boosting expert but just looking at some online comments around the 8 week mark FTL should start to wear off. I'm not there yet ofc, but the Dingtian's boosting effect has not gotten any worse in fact it might be better? I remember I used this rubber in the summer once without boosting it was dead and slow as f.ck. It reacts to FTL extremely well. This should be pretty good news to you if you don't live in China since Seamoon is a bit hard to get over here, but FTL is easy to get and the price is on par with Seamoon.
Fast attack with Dingtian with open bladeface... guys, it's insane. It hits trough the topsheet, sponge and right on to the W968 and it feels so satisfying. 60% power is more than enough, it is not returnable and even if by some miracle it gets returned recovering from a 60% shot is easy peasy. Before with Rakza Z or C2 I was doing full balls to the wall, yolo hits and they came back sometimes. I have seen the face of my partners so much how they looked back on the table after one fast attach from the Dingtian. It's the look of disbelief and utter despair?
Hey, ok Zwill it plays pretty well, but does it last a week without bubbles? Well I have to say so far yeah. After 5-6 weeks of absolute abuse, it is holding up super well. Sure no bubbles, but that is again not the whole picture. If you have played with H3 topsheed for an extended time you know that the bottom part of the rubber that is close to your body gets a bit dull and then in the middle, there will be a bit of discoloring from all the contacts and dust etc. I would say H3 topsheet is more of the durable ones on the market. If it doesn't bubbles up it can last years. I can proudly say that the Dingtian has only dullness where I rest my thumb in the middle. No bottom side nor middle discolorization.
I think I mentioned it before but the topsheed looks like it has a different sticky layer than H3N, much more thin, and the rubber under feels like the Dingtian has much more artificial rubber/plastic compound than H3N. But I don't give a damn since it's so durable and good.
PSS.: If you like boosted sticky Chinese rubbers I urge you to get a Dingtian! Not sure who makes it, I really hope it's some 80 year old Chinese grandma doing it on the base of Tibet with all the fresh air and clean mountain water, and I can even accept if she used Dodo bird feathers and T-Rex blood in the formula!
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I had the same experience with 05FX - loved it on Viscaria and not on HL5. Having tried it on W968 I am back to loving it - it is just the right balance of control and speed for me.
Playing with Chinese rubbers does take a different technique. It's a common misconception that you need to brush more with them, you actually need to hit more with them. The feel is a "hit, then brush" kind of thing. I initially learned my strokes with Chinese rubbers so that's what I always preferred. I switched from T05 to D09c because it allows me to use a more Chinese style loop.
To me, the advantage of that style of looping isn't so much the power, but the consistency. A more open racket allows so much more surface area to contact the ball.
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Sounds like you found an excellent setup for you!
A bunch of people were raving about the Young Shine Dingtian on a big French forum so I have a sheet still in package I've been meaning to crack open. I'll wait for my W968 to get here and will boost it with Seamoon. Should be fun!
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