Does anybody else mentally fall apart against pure pushers or weird styles?

[TheProfessor]

Look there always be an exception from the rules in tt. I know a guys that can doing push/chops with t05 that is so heavy almsot like from long pips (it’s a guys with gazillion years of exp and amazing touch) - and I can trouble to lift them and need some time to adapt. Can happen to anyone if you not familiar with that style. The story was not about ex national level players.

But I was speaking about general awkward pushing from 1600 player scenario as OP telling and ability of 2000 player to deal with it

And for the style and technique - it shouldn’t be fancy to be effective. I know a guy that has wins over national level players and when you looking at him and his form - staying tall, chopping - flat kill high balls - nothing fancy but he managed to get about 2500/2600+ level.
Andrei Gacina when he played in our super league barely wins him 3:2 - there even their match existing on YouTube - so everyone can check I can give a link if someone interested

what's the guy's name?

 

[SleepyMaster]

what's the guy's name?

Oleksii Naplyokov he is playing short pips now - before that he used something like T05fx with thin sponge

Here is the game

 

[TensorBackhand]

Sounds like poor shot selection by you. I coach a lot of these players who get into push battles and it consistently amazes me how they will pass up two or three easy balls only to attack a much more difficult one.

Ideally you could evaluate in real time and open as soon as you get a weak push. In reality your best bet is probably to open on the first one you get - it will be the weakest.

Yes, something like that happens to me as well. I see 10 pushes in a row come back to me. So my mind gets confused. I keep waiting and waiting and looking for the perfect push to attack. Then when I finally can't wait any longer, I go and attack the hardest push.

When I play the 2000 players, I know that I need to play faster so I don't think too hard about it. I just try to setup the point when I can.

 

[NextLevel]

i can totally understand your issue against opponents that only push. I got a similar "training partner" who will only push or do very "wild" smashes from angles that are basically deemed to fail, but once in a while he manages to simply smash a loop so that the ball will actually land back on my side of the table.

I did record a few of the matches and what i noticed is that this pusher basically brings out the worst in me.
I will accept the push game and lazily stay with my right foot infront because i know the next ball will again be short/a push. If you are then used to this slow game it is incredibly hard to change the mindset, get the proper stance to prepare for a forehand push.

On one hand this is the ideal training partner to learn how to get out of these silly push battles, but the plethora of opportunities posed by the many pushes which are basically attackable at least 50 % of the time (if i stood correctly) somehow makes one hesitant to go for the loop kill, since one thinks "the next one will even be more easy to attack". After some time of hesitation to attack one thinks "now it's enough" and will try to attack the next ball overzealously even though it might not be great to attack,

Somehow i try to pivot and forehand loop many balls, even though when i backhand loop the opponent blocks it out of the table 90% of the time.

It is really odd that one somehow instinctively mirrors the "bad" play of the opponent.

The backhand is not as flexible as the forehand in timing pushes, so if you don't practice backhand topspin against repeated chop or take the push off the short or half long return, it is very easy to miss by mistiming backhand topspins against pushes off long balls. It is very common to have good backhands against a specific kind of ball and bad backhands against a lot of other balls and not really catch on the subtle differences. It's one of the reasons the set up is just as important as the execution as it isn't always about technique (or one might argue that technique is situational and not universal).

So your pivoting might very well be a result of this timing issue - the forehand is more flexible in adjusting to new long balls, but the pivoting of course places a different kind of pressure on the stroke. And the timing of push on the whole is different so once you get into it, it isn't entirely about technique. That's why it is simplest unless you have a precise pushing strategy to just attack the first long ball unless the opponent shows you he defends and counters it too well.

 

[SleepyMaster]

Yes, something like that happens to me as well. I see 10 pushes in a row come back to me. So my mind gets confused. I keep waiting and waiting and looking for the perfect push to attack. Then when I finally can't wait any longer, I go and attack the hardest push.

When I play the 2000 players, I know that I need to play faster so I don't think too hard about it. I just try to setup the point when I can.

If it was me I’ll still try to loop the push that comes back and see how it goes - if it in the net - open and brush more - if it out of the table just more forward motion added. Just will try to adapt and make an correction of the stroke with every loop that you made. Rather than going in circle of pushing over and over again.

I don’t even mind to lose by that strategy if it is just regular training match - there is training is made for. To overcome our weaknesses and to adapt to opponent style 😉

 

[TensorBackhand]

If it was me I’ll still try to loop the push that comes back and see how it goes - if it in the net - open and brush more - if it out of the table just more forward motion added. Just will try to adapt and make an correction of the stroke with every loop that you made. Rather than going in circle of pushing over and over again.

I don’t even mind to lose by that strategy if it is just regular training match - there is training is made for. To overcome our weaknesses and to adapt to opponent style 😉

I will try to play more aggressive this week

 

[lightspin]

What is the best way to handle this type of situation? I heard from other players as well that this individual often takes down much higher rated "traditional" players. But his own rating never goes up because he doesn't have the other techniques to beat the lower ranked players.

Any professional player will loop a long push into oblivion. You want to get better long term right? Then any long push that comes your way MUST BE LOOPED. If you miss now, eventually you will figure it out and become a much better player in the long run. If you miss, odds are you misread the spin. So

1) Figure out what spin you sent them
2) Watch their action
3) Watch the ball bounce on your side
4) Watch the ball come to you
5) Make a judgement and loop

You can push it back over and over if you absolutely must win that particular match. However if you want to get better long term, then loop. If you miss,. you miss and try to figure out why so next time you don't miss as much.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Any professional player will loop a long push into oblivion. You want to get better long term right? Then any long push that comes your way MUST BE LOOPED. If you miss now, eventually you will figure it out and become a much better player in the long run. If you miss, odds are you misread the spin. So

1) Figure out what spin you sent them
2) Watch their action
3) Watch the ball bounce on your side
4) Watch the ball come to you
5) Make a judgement and loop

You can push it back over and over if you absolutely must win that particular match. However if you want to get better long term, then loop. If you miss,. you miss and try to figure out why so next time you don't miss as much.

I will try. It's trickier than it sounds because this guy pushes very awkwardly. He doesn't come under the ball, but actually pushes along the side of the ball, so it has sidespin and it has inconsistent underspin and it comes sharply to your left side.

Sometimes it has heavier underspin, and sometimes lighter. Even when I push, its fairly easy to pop it up or out, or sometimes put it into the net.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

For some people who don't know a few things that might help a little:

OP plays in Canada. This is a point that some people who are completely unfamiliar with Canada might overlook.

With a 1950 Canada rating, OP might actually be between 2000 and 2200 in the USATT rating system. He is a solid player.

I saw videos of him play maybe a year ago, no ways he is usatt 2000~2200
maybe his opponent is underrated as you said, but topspin should be fundamentals for any 2000+ players

 

[NextLevel]

I saw videos of him play maybe a year ago, no ways he is usatt 2000~2200
maybe his opponent is underrated as you said, but topspin should be fundamentals for any 2000+ players

Well maybe I was wrong. I thought be was in Canada but I hear CA was really California so I got my places mixed up lol.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Well maybe I was wrong. I thought be was in Canada but I hear CA was really California so I got my places mixed up lol.

all good.

well, then USATT 2000 is still not a low level
which didn't match his video back then. who knows, maybe he grew 500+ points in a year.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Ok, so i played the weird 1600 player today and won 3-0. It was 11-3, 11-7, 11-6.

The big difference is that I really forced myself to play my regular game and go loop his push and loop his serve no matter how anxious I feel

 

[TensorBackhand]

all good.

well, then USATT 2000 is still not a low level
which didn't match his video back then. who knows, maybe he grew 500+ points in a year.

Tony, im really not interested in labels or ratings. I just cite it if its helpful. If its not helpful, please just ignore it.

I dont really think im a 2000 player. I dont believe i ever said that either.

All I say is that when I play my 90% best game, i feel i trade evenly with 1950 players and i can take 30% matches from 2000 players. These are just players from our local league rating. I dont know how it compares to true Usatt.

Again, to be clear, i dont think im 2000 or 1900 or any specific rating. I just know from experience that I can play even matches against some of those players of that rating.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Tony, im really not interested in labels or ratings. I just cite it if its helpful. If its not helpful, please just ignore it.

I dont really think im a 2000 player. I dont believe i ever said that either.

All I say is that when I play my 90% best game, i feel i trade evenly with 1950 players and i can take 30% matches from 2000 players. These are just players from our local league rating. I dont know how it compares to true Usatt.

Again, to be clear, i dont think im 2000 or 1900 or any specific rating. I just know from experience that I can play even matches against some of those players of that rating.

well, understanding one's level is probably the most import factor for everything.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I made a couple adjustments for today's game to beat 1600 weird push player.

1) I exclusively served bh. I felt serving bh puts less spin on my serve, so I have an easier 3rd ball. Also I felt using bh to serve put me in better position to loop the 3rd ball.
2) I went ahead and looped every one of his long serves with my bh loop/flick. Previously I was pushing his serve, but all that did was draw me into long push on push rallies
3) I changed my bh rubber and put Dragon grip on. Since I know that 99% of his shots will be a push to my bh side, I felt I really needed the extra grip and speed to lift his ball

 

[Gozo Aruna]

I made a couple adjustments for today's game to beat 1600 weird push player.

1) I exclusively served bh. I felt serving bh puts less spin on my serve, so I have an easier 3rd ball. Also I felt using bh to serve put me in better position to loop the 3rd ball.
2) I went ahead and looped every one of his long serves with my bh loop/flick. Previously I was pushing his serve, but all that did was draw me into long push on push rallies
3) I changed my bh rubber and put Dragon grip on. Since I know that 99% of his shots will be a push to my bh side, I felt I really needed the extra grip and speed to lift his ball

There you have it folks! It was all because of the wrong rubber! Now we know the true reason.

 

[TensorBackhand]

There you have it folks! It was all because of the wrong rubber! Now we know the true reason.

Why are you surprised? For a looper, a hybrid rubber is significantly better for looping than a tensor rubber.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Why are you surprised? For a looper, a hybrid rubber is significantly better for looping than a tensor rubber.

I have never use hybrid before. Your statement piqued my interest but after a short glance at some of the hybrid product available, I realised that their sponge is on the hard side. Sigh, thanks but no thanks, I'll retreat to my safe tender, soft and mushy tenergy fx. I love em soft and tenderly.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

when you need equipment to do the job, then it is probably more than the problem of the equipment.
i mean, how do all those non hybrid rubber users topspin?

so, now a trick question - will you keep that rubber now? or still change it to something better

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Here is a better question:

How many setups must a player have if a player has to play many different folks? Ten, twenty, fifty???