Fastarc G1 vs Rakza 7 Sponge hardness

[hazzaa96]

Hi, just wondering what the sponge hardness is of both rubbers (mainly Rakza 7) as I know the G1 is 47.5 degrees

 

[TensorBackhand]

Hi, just wondering what the sponge hardness is of both rubbers (mainly Rakza 7) as I know the G1 is 47.5 degrees

same

 

[Crillo]

Same but G-1 feels firmer.

 

[Kolev]

I don't know the exact hardness of the Rakza 7, but it definitely feels softer than G1. Recently me and my partner compared both of them

 

[ShoutGuy]

Rakza 7 feels softer than all the 47.5 rubbers I tested

 

[Crillo]

I don't know the exact hardness of the Rakza 7, but it definitely feels softer than G1. Recently me and my partner compared both of them

The topsheet of G-1 is harder and I agree Rakza 7 feels softer and are easier to play with for a lower level player.

 

[Zwill]

I don't see him stating harder is better.

 

[Lazer]

He said that " easier to play with for a lower level player"
Yes, that is true because 53 deg is too hard.
The only reason people want to play with hard rubbers is due to marketing. This gets fools to buy hard rubbers just to try them out and spend more of their money.

I agree that softer rubber are easier to play with beaus harder rubbers are too difficult. 60 degree rubbers would be even more difficult. There is a Goldilocks zone for everybody. There is too hard, too soft and just right.

Just because a pro can play with a 53 degree rubber doesn't mean it is the best rubber for him or anybody else.
There is no force/impulse that a 53 degree rubber rubber can generate that can't be generate by a 47 degree rubber.

Explain to the forum why a harder rubber is better? Show us a formula that proves harder rubber generate more speed or spin. You can't. This whole discussion is stupid. Theere is too hard and too soft. Rakza 7 is about right.

Hard rubbers are less reactive in the slow game...

Cheers
L-zr

 

[KM1976]

The definition of 'easier to play with' vs. 'difficult to play with' in my personal opinion based on my tests are as follows -
1. Easier to play with - The rubber gives good feeling during brush contact loop and loop drives. It is not overly bouncy and hence favors static blocking (like just keep the racket at the correct angle against an incoming topspin ball). Defensive shots like push stay low. While serving, I get a good feeling on contact and it inspires confidence and I can generate low, spinny serves. It is easier for me to change the placement and spin on the ball. I can rely on the rubber to do the job, even when I am not using that much body rotation or I have slow arm speed for a topspin. This is true in my case, since when I get tired after 6-7 marathon 5 set matches, then I tend to be slow and can't use my movements that much. In such scenarios, a softer rubber, which I deem easier to play with helps me a lot.
Last but not the least, the rubber supports your style of play. I am spin oriented player and what I wrote is my perspective. If you are a player who relies on flat drives, then you can think in those terms since by default you will be taking the ball on the rise and will be having a more forward stroke. In that case, a harder rubber might give you a better and crisp feeling for the point of contact during a stroke and would give more confidence as during flat shots, the ball stays much less on the rubber as compared to a loop.
2. Difficult to play with - This would be the case when I still get the feeling of the ball but I need to swing harder to get the maximum out of such rubber. This becomes tricky for me, as I keep progressing and getting tired during a competition.
Also to add, a harder rubber vs. a softer rubber also controls the distance away from the table at which you can be effective. That is why, I always feel that there is an adjustment window of play for myself to get accustomed with a new rubber.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

This is a classic example where two rubbers have the same "hardness" of sponge, but why is Rakza 7 a softer rubber than G1?
because we are not measuring the hardness of the topsheet.
Rakza 7 topsheet is softer, so R7 + 47.5 will be softer than G1 + 47.5

This is why I stay quiet from a lot of talk of hybrids/chinese rubbers and the comparison on the sponge hardness, since you need to be talking about both sponge and topsheet, and not only reading numbers off the sponge.
And to be more technical, thickness of sponge plays a role too.

 

[Lowday20298]

You are just repeating the same old crap you have heard. What makes a harder sponge better? If a 53 degree sponge is better then don't the best players use a 60 degree sponge?

What is important is the force or impulse which is the force over the contact time.
Hardness is just a preference. It isn't really better. There is a Goldilocks zone. There is too hard, too soft and just right.

@NextLevel or @zeio. Why don't the pros use 60 deg sponges if if they are so good?

Relax dude, harder sponge requires more energy to bottom out, giving a higher ceiling for speed and control. An experienced and strong player, like all pros, can and do benefit more from a harder sponge. That's why you don't see pros playing with soft sponge rubbers, Kreanga was an anomaly.

 

[Lowday20298]

This is a classic example where two rubbers have the same "hardness" of sponge, but why is Rakza 7 a softer rubber than G1?
because we are not measuring the hardness of the topsheet.
Rakza 7 topsheet is softer, so R7 + 47.5 will be softer than G1 + 47.5

This is why I stay quiet from a lot of talk of hybrids/chinese rubbers and the comparison on the sponge hardness, since you need to be talking about both sponge and topsheet, and not only reading numbers off the sponge.
And to be more technical, thickness of sponge plays a role too.

Got a question, if you compare 2 sheets of the same rubber, let's say a max vega europe and a 1.8 vega europe. If we don't take into account all of the other changes that will happen, which will feel softer and be easier for the ball to dig into at low effort and which at high effort shots?

 

[S-Pin]

He said that " easier to play with for a lower level player"
Yes, that is true because 53 deg is too hard.
The only reason people want to play with hard rubbers is due to marketing. This gets fools to buy hard rubbers just to try them out and spend more of their money.

I agree that softer rubber are easier to play with beaus harder rubbers are too difficult. 60 degree rubbers would be even more difficult. There is a Goldilocks zone for everybody. There is too hard, too soft and just right.

Just because a pro can play with a 53 degree rubber doesn't mean it is the best rubber for him or anybody else.
There is no force/impulse that a 53 degree rubber rubber can generate that can't be generate by a 47 degree rubber.

Explain to the forum why a harder rubber is better? Show us a formula that proves harder rubber generate more speed or spin. You can't. This whole discussion is stupid. Theere is too hard and too soft. Rakza 7 is about right.

Have you noticed that you are arguing with yourself? No-one here, apart from you, said that hard rubbers are better than soft ones.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Got a question, if you compare 2 sheets of the same rubber, let's say a max vega europe and a 1.8 vega europe. If we don't take into account all of the other changes that will happen, which will feel softer and be easier for the ball to dig into at low effort and which at high effort shots?

Max will feel softer because:
1) Euro is a very soft sponge
2) there is more sponge to absorb the ball in Max, while 1.8mm, you going to "wood" the ball a lot quicker. wood is firmer than sponge.
3) what is easier? well, more sponge is also more bouncy, but I rather have more sponge than solid wood feeling, so I would not suggest 1.8mm, but 2.0mm if you worried there is too much sponge in Max.
I however don't believe in "low effort" or "high effort", in equipment, since i'm a coach, that is part of technique
Vega Euro is too soft of a sponge to be able to hit proper high level shots.

Never the less, Vega Euro is very soft, so, it should be a lot easier to control than other Vega series.
Just don't bother trying Vega Elite, that Elite should actually be called Vega Sponge. Because it is so soft, you can use it to clean Teflon pans

 

[ck1407]

The definition of 'easier to play with' vs. 'difficult to play with' in my personal opinion based on my tests are as follows -
1. Easier to play with - The rubber gives good feeling during brush contact loop and loop drives. It is not overly bouncy and hence favors static blocking (like just keep the racket at the correct angle against an incoming topspin ball). Defensive shots like push stay low. While serving, I get a good feeling on contact and it inspires confidence and I can generate low, spinny serves. It is easier for me to change the placement and spin on the ball. I can rely on the rubber to do the job, even when I am not using that much body rotation or I have slow arm speed for a topspin. This is true in my case, since when I get tired after 6-7 marathon 5 set matches, then I tend to be slow and can't use my movements that much. In such scenarios, a softer rubber, which I deem easier to play with helps me a lot.
Last but not the least, the rubber supports your style of play. I am spin oriented player and what I wrote is my perspective. If you are a player who relies on flat drives, then you can think in those terms since by default you will be taking the ball on the rise and will be having a more forward stroke. In that case, a harder rubber might give you a better and crisp feeling for the point of contact during a stroke and would give more confidence as during flat shots, the ball stays much less on the rubber as compared to a loop.
2. Difficult to play with - This would be the case when I still get the feeling of the ball but I need to swing harder to get the maximum out of such rubber. This becomes tricky for me, as I keep progressing and getting tired during a competition.
Also to add, a harder rubber vs. a softer rubber also controls the distance away from the table at which you can be effective. That is why, I always feel that there is an adjustment window of play for myself to get accustomed with a new rubber.

I think you explained it pretty well. Ppl tend to blindly chase after power and speed and disregard margin for error/consistency. Seems like you found your balance 👍

 

[Lowday20298]

Max will feel softer because:
1) Euro is a very soft sponge
2) there is more sponge to absorb the ball in Max, while 1.8mm, you going to "wood" the ball a lot quicker. wood is firmer than sponge.
3) what is easier? well, more sponge is also more bouncy, but I rather have more sponge than solid wood feeling, so I would not suggest 1.8mm, but 2.0mm if you worried there is too much sponge in Max.
I however don't believe in "low effort" or "high effort", in equipment, since i'm a coach, that is part of technique
Vega Euro is too soft of a sponge to be able to hit proper high level shots.

Never the less, Vega Euro is very soft, so, it should be a lot easier to control than other Vega series.
Just don't bother trying Vega Elite, that Elite should actually be called Vega Sponge. Because it is so soft, you can use it to clean Teflon pans

Alright!

My main setup is stiga intensity with goldarc 8, 47.5 max and Bluestorm Z3 2.1, but the bluestorm just doesn't feel safe. Now on my pen racket my vega, I have a 2.0 euro, that's why I used it as comparison feels even more slippy, it's as the catapult makes the top sheet harder and negates the pros of the soft sponge...

I can't find a rubber with speed glue feel and massive grip like harder rubbers, I feel like capatulty rubbers require more snap. In Greece we learn a bigger bh swing, Kreanga style, so soft grippy rubbers are common, but the fx that everyone use is too expensive and I haven't found anything so grippy, soft and with so much dwell time. Any recommendations?

 

[S-Pin]

Alright!

My main setup is stiga intensity with goldarc 8, 47.5 max and Bluestorm Z3 2.1, but the bluestorm just doesn't feel safe. Now on my pen racket my vega, I have a 2.0 euro, that's why I used it as comparison feels even more slippy, it's as the catapult makes the top sheet harder and negates the pros of the soft sponge...

I can't find a rubber with speed glue feel and massive grip like harder rubbers, I feel like capatulty rubbers require more snap. In Greece we learn a bigger bh swing, Kreanga style, so soft grippy rubbers are common, but the fx that everyone use is too expensive and I haven't found anything so grippy, soft and with so much dwell time. Any recommendations?

I was also looking for a BH rubber, but ended up with GoldArc 8 47.5. An alternative that is even easier to create a lot of BH spin and speed is XIOM Vega X. It feels softer, the ball sinks into the topsheet more, and a short wrist flick creates a lot of spin. Otherwise they are pretty similar. Both great rubbers, but I switched to Rakza Z because both were quite bouncy in short game with my Acoustic. But that was my only gripe with GA8, otherwise a really great rubber for both FH and BH, still have it on my three backup blades. )) My son is playing with Bluefire m3 on BH, and it's also quite spinny and easy to use.

 

[Lowday20298]

I was also looking for a BH rubber, but ended up with GoldArc 8 47.5. An alternative that is even easier to create a lot of BH spin and speed is XIOM Vega X. It feels softer, the ball sinks into the topsheet more, and a short wrist flick creates a lot of spin. Otherwise they are pretty similar. Both great rubbers, but I switched to Rakza Z because both were quite bouncy in short game with my Acoustic. But that was my only gripe with GA8, otherwise a really great rubber for both FH and BH, still have it on my three backup blades. )) My son is playing with Bluefire m3 on BH, and it's also quite spinny and easy to use.

Does the m3 feel like it has a softer topsheet than the goldarc 8? I'm curious because my friend used m2 years and years ago

 

[S-Pin]

Does the m3 feel like it has a softer topsheet than the goldarc 8? I'm curious because my friend used m2 years and years ago

No, not really, to me it feels different, but not really softer. But I can't compare them directly, because my son plays with a koto/carbon blade and I was using GA8 on limba all-wood. But it was spinny for sure.

 

[Lowday20298]

No, not really, to me it feels different, but not really softer. But I can't compare them directly, because my son plays with a koto/carbon blade and I was using GA8 on limba all-wood. But it was spinny for sure.

Ok got it. I wonder how it's different to the jp series