Guess the Rating

[Vrael]

What I want to know is what exactly you mean with shot selection holding me back vs technique...?

If You really can use all the shots that You said You can, then it is moer than enoough for 2200 USATT, yet you said Yourself that you are most likely under 1750. It can only mean that Your game understanding/shot selection is holding You back (unless You have huge problems with reading spin).

 

[Shuki]

One thing I can say about playing NextLevel. Well, more than one. Haha. The first time we played I knew I wanted to avoid one of his wings. But I did not understand how much power and heaviness was in his shots from just seeing them. It sort of feels like having a golf ball hit your racket. I also noticed that when I got off a good shot that had decent power, it usually came back harder. And after a shot or two there did seem to be any avoiding either wing. Another thing I noticed is that, on video his mobility doesn't look great. But somehow he gets to way more balls than I thought he would. So, expect the unexpected. [emoji2]

However, I doubt our levels will be very different and I am prepared for the idea that you are a bit better than me as, right now I have some stuff going on that has been keeping me from playing. I am playing very little and can feel my level is dropping fast.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

doubt I'll be better, I'm the kind of player that when warming up you'll think is pretty good by once you start a game dies off pretty quick.


my plan after watch NL, is knowing that my General playstyle would be weak against him, realizing how his footwork is. He struggles to back off the table (from the looks) and I'd be willing to from the start of the game abandon all of my specialties and chop HIGH, heavy and deep. I imagine balls that land right near the edge of the table he'd struggle with since i never saw much moving in and out. scratch the heavy part, closer to dead would be better against him I think. His chops are heavy so when he gets a more dead chop back I feel he may hit them long. Also the end up being deeper into him when they bounce near the end of the table than he'd like.

then I'd move to just focusing on blocking when he gets the attack in. Which he will.

being able to abandon your entire style is important I believe.

First when hen facing someone do what you're good at. If that doesn't work play to their weaknesses. If that doesn't work swing for the fences.

this actually reminds me of a video of a guy beating push blocker by serving high balls. But my strategy wouldn't be as extreme



and he obviously would adapt, so I have to be ready to abandon it at a moments notice and play my real game which isn't what he adapted to.

 

[Shuki]

Inevitable but it isn't always as straightforward as you think. Alex Polyakov played his best tournament ever after having hardly had sufficient time to train for it. People underestimate the impact of improved cognitive reads when you have good technique. So they don't realize how hard it is for the brain to catch up to utilizing optimally what it already has. Just watch some high level TT a few minutes every day. Or pay for TTEdge App and use it to take your mind off the rougher days. You will be surprised how well you are seeing things when you get back to the table.

thats it, I'm getting the app!

 

[Archosaurus]

Vrael, I am probably not honestly 2200 even if I can play those shots pretty well, because the people I play with are not as good as 2200 players and thus I have a far easier time. 2200 players are also surely mentally better than I am, and far more experienced.

The people I play with rarely appear to be over 1600, and I can beat on them pretty badly if I put my mind to it. My basic skills are far more refined.

I think against more suitable competition, my game would not be as solid, even if I am *theoretically* a good player.

Although the people I play with play a decently pressuring and fast game with respectable spin that you must take into account, it's nowhere near NL's game IMO, not to even talk about 2200!

So, I think what is holding me back is competition, or lack of.

 

[Vrael]

I was just waiting untill You mention mentallity. If you are weak mentally it only prooves that shot selection is not Your strong side, since mindset plays a huge role in shot selection. You need to be composed and calm to make good decisions, but please let me now read from behind the scenes

 

[Shuki]

Danny senior told me he used to play games against 1700 players to 51 and have them start at 44. At the time he was 2400. If you're 200 points above you're opponent the match will almost always be a cake walk. I've beaten players 200 points higher than me, had to exert a lot more energy than usual, play amazing for myself. And then realize that not only was that not their A game, it was their D

 

[Archosaurus]

Vrael, my mentality against lower players is excellent. I imagine they feel what other pros feel when they must play Ma Long, hahahah. 100% confidence in success, clear thinking and tactics at every serve and return, I don't get angry or upset, no excuses, I respect the opponent's game etc.


What I mean is that I might get intimidated, or start thinking useless tactics and be blinded to what I should really be doing if I played a person my level. I don't think that would happen, but I don't imagine it being easy on the head at a good level. I hope you understand what I mean.


Shuki, that sounds interesting. I should play a game to 11 with, let's say, a 6 point handicap to start off. I just need to find a way to not insult my peers while I go about it...

 

[Vrael]

Ther eis quite easy way if You play with them often. Just make a rule that whoever loses the game is given 2 points at start of the next game. If that someone wins the next game then he is starting from 0 again, if he loses again then he gets another +2 points so he starts from 4-0.

So we can't really say anything about Your shot selection unless You play against stronger opponents. It is exactly the same as in some moba games (like lol and dota). You may think that you are making good decisions and no msitakes when you paly against lower ranked player, but when You play against higher ranked players You start to udnerstand that every single move you do is just a big mistake that they can capitalize on.

 

[Archosaurus]

That sounds good.

Maybe a little over half a year ago, I played against some stronger people who could basically slam balls into my ribs with a sidespin loop if I started to pivot for a forehand even a little too early and gave it up. My backhand was not that great, footwork not as fast as I thought it was and forehand loop not as threatening as I thought it was, so I had a hard time. They kept looping all my long serves, often with a very solid backhand loop and flicking all my short serves unless they were exceptionally good. Their serves were either too fast, or too low and spinny.

I was surely making every single mistake in the book. It felt like they could completely read through me and didn't even break a sweat completely destroying me. To add, most of them served terribly illegal, but I don't think it mattered much at that point.

Now, they'd be hard pressed to get a single point from me if they don't really try. They miss most of their serve attacks and are forced to push, my pivot isn't readable to punish, footwork too fast to be out of position, backhand too good to reliably attack my backhand wing as a strategy and forehand too good to risk a bad return on that wing. What was great pressure some half a year ago is just adequate competition now. I'd even argue I'm perhaps at an advantage with my more consistent technique.

So, it is possible to level up quite fast if you have the needed competition. As long as you stop doing nearly everything that has won you points up to then, or at least, do it in a better way.

 

[kukamonga]

NextLevel is the darker gentleman.

I don't know who this everybody user is, but I personally would guess his rating to be 1600 - 1800 based on only that short provided video footage.

NL already said why he posted the video and thread.

I still don't get it.
Is this the real level of us2000 or for some reason we should not take this video as a reference?

 

[Shuki]

I still don't get it.
Is this the real level of us2000 or for some reason we should not take this video as a reference?

He's not US2000, I actually don't know his real rating, I think over 1800, under 1900. Definitely don't use that video as a reference though. Make's him look much worse than he is.


Ignore arch's post. He started by guessing a rating and then explaining some shit on why he guessed that rating. Then a page or two later he say's he doesn't know how the USATT rating system works.

 

[NextLevel]

I still don't get it.
Is this the real level of us2000 or for some reason we should not take this video as a reference?

I have been USATT 1950-2050 for over a year now through style changes and worsening health. The video is one game in one match - draw from it whatever conclusions you may. I posted it in part because it was so anomalous compared to how I usually play and i wanted to see how people would interpret it. The opponent is about 200 Pts below me at the current time but was higher when he was younger. That said, I am never really compelled to do what I do best. The opponent plays a flatter and less spinny game than it is easy to see and that explains most of my misses.

 

[kukamonga]

I don't know about US ratings because I have never played there.
but I'd still put you in the beginner league.

I think the difference with more advanced players is the amount of pushes.
An advanced player will attack any long push.
And if he doesn't attack it the first time he will attack it the second time.

Also another thing I notice is that you don't move looking for opportunities to attack.
You just stand there facing the table and if the ball goes to your bh you hit bh, if the ball goes to fh you hit fh.

 

[NextLevel]

I don't know about US ratings because I have never played there.
but I'd still put you in the beginner league.

I think the difference with more advanced players is the amount of pushes.
An advanced player will attack any long push.
And if he doesn't attack it the first time he will attack it the second time.

Also another thing I notice is that you don't move looking for opportunities to attack.
You just stand there facing the table and if the ball goes to your bh you hit bh, if the ball goes to fh you hit fh.

That's fine. It all depends on who you play with. But I am Nigerian and I know we play at a higher standard than Burkina Faso and I don't think anyone in Nigeria has ever called me a beginner.

You have to realize that when playing someone who is 200 pts below you, the truth is that you can win in a variety of ways. I won the match 3-0 despite missing the majority of my attacks. I can beat many players without attacking. I have bad knees so I don't move that much - but again, I know many good players who don't move that much so if moving is what makes you a good player, then you will be in for a surprise.

 

[kukamonga]

this is a very sensitive subject, I know, you are putting yourself out there and if you don't like what you hear you get defensive right away, it's natural.

anyway I wasn't even talking about technique or moving.
it's about initiative.
when you play a guy who is really good and you push long you can practically kiss goodbye that point.

but don't take this too personal, the only important thing is you are happy with yourself and how you play.

 

[NDH]

this is a very sensitive subject, I know, you are putting yourself out there and if you don't like what you hear you get defensive right away, it's natural.

anyway I wasn't even talking about technique or moving.
it's about initiative.
when you play a guy who is really good and you push long you can practically kiss goodbye that point.
that's just my personal experience.

I'm sure NL will correct me if I'm wrong, but it didn't look like he was trying to absolutely crush the opponent.....

I'd agree on the movement part, but as NL has explained, that's the bad knees kicking in (or not as the case may be!).

Also..... You never see a decent player look good against weaker opposition......

 

[Sali]

I do not know the US rating system, but in Poland we have the leagues. There is extraclass and 5-6 leagues. Definitely both of you are level of the lowest league in Poland. Your opponent is better, why:
1. Eventhough he is older, he is moving much better then you, you are standing in one position and wait for the ball
2. He has the strategy, he is serving with sidespin and then prepare for the attack with his FH.
3. Eventhough he is older, he is very confident oh his attack game.
4. He is the person who has the initiative whole set.
Anyway both of you would be playing in last league in Poland, the difference is you opponent would have little bit better wining ratio then you.
If you want some advice, you need to start using your legs and planing your strategy.

 

[Xylit]

Based on this video...

TTR 1500-1700 is about where a USATT 2000 player would be. [...] Here is one of my best matches ever.

In my opinion if you are below a rating level of 2200 USATT or even more, the player that makes less errors wins matches at the very most and not the one performing more winners.

I think that is similar to what Archosauros wrote just in other words.

The level for that is USATT 1600. Above USATT 1800, if you don't have shots, you will be picking up the ball most of the time. IT's what you do to people that makes them feel the pressure of attacking and missing.

...I'd say that I win 3-0 against you by mainly doing some various chops and blocks with a few unspectacular 90%-ratio-attacks here and there and that is what I am talking about. You make soooo many unforced errors, basically your opponent does not have to do more than to wait for them while keeping the ball on the table.

I have been USATT 1950-2050 for over a year now [...]

My TTR is slightly above 1700 and based on the mentioned video I'd rate you somewhere around 1550 TTR. Howerver, I think you have a pretty good technic but HUGE problems with footwork. And I like with how much fun and passion you play table tennis.

Anyway, this estimation is only based on this single video and therefore is nowhere near accurate. I might completely change my opinion seeing further videos of you so don't take it too seriously. I love watching user videos and thank you for uploading them, creating great content like this thread. Thumbs up!

 

[Archosaurus]

Xylit, I think NL would put away more shots than he would miss if you gave him the chance, though.

I think the only way your strategy would work is if you yourself would not make a single unforced error, which we can agree on being unlikely.

 

[NextLevel]

Xylit, I don't disagree with your analysis, but my opponent is using short pips and I have played enough with my issues to develop work arounds but I play at a certain level. IT may not be 1700TTR, but it is pretty close, and people don't just walk over me by making me move.

Well, let me show who you that opponent is in case you don't know: